The start of seedlings

kodom087 z9aNovember 24, 2012

Thanks to Karyn doing a seed trade with me I getting to add some babies to my adenium collection. Mainly just for the experience of growing something from seed which I love doing. So I thought I'd create this post to sort of document the day in a life of the seeds.

Hope you all enjoy!

Kirk

Seeds arrived on Monday, 11-19-2012 and were immediately planted. 1st pic taken 11-23-2012. First signs of 4 seeds sprouting.

2nd pic taken 11-24-2012. 9 seeds sprouted.

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LocoGuy

They grow fast

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 11:11AM
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kodom087 z9a

They seem to be already. I just find it fascinating. Wish I had that accessory for my camera to do like some time laps video of them because that would just be awesome!

Kirk

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 11:34AM
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teyo(7b)

congradulations on your new babies! :)

tiny word of advice, take off their seed shells as soon as you safely can. like on the one in the bottom left, and the middle one in the bottom right cup. the left one in the bottom right cup also seems almost out of the shell. then remove the shells completely out of the cups, they are a fungus magnet, and if left on the seedlings quite often they will allow those fungi to attack seedling cotyledons.
you can use tweezers or a toothpick to gently slide the shell off the seedling, it is also good to spray it a little bit with water first so it softens.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 12:28PM
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kodom087 z9a

Thanks for the tip, teyo.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 12:33PM
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kodom087 z9a

Day 3 11-25-2012
9 out of 10 sprouted. Not so bad. :)

Kirk

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 10:45AM
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rcharles_gw

That is very good germination. Must be pleased.
It will be interesting to watch them grow, with them all coming from same pod. The differences between seedlings is always of interest to me.
Good growing.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 11:18AM
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teyo(7b)

glad to help, i see you're doing great :) fresh seed really does make a difference.

in your last picture, the one in the bottom right, so bottom container bottom right seedling, it looks like the inner membrane was left on it (happens sometimes, it tends to stick to them). you should try to remove it if the seedling doesn't manage to get free on its own in a day or two. otherwise that thing will basically strangulate the young plant by not allowing it to open it's cotyledons.
it is a bit harder to remove than the seed coat, but if wetted enough and carefully removed with tweezers it will come off.
but as i said, wait a bit to see if it will manage on its own, i can't tell from the image if the membrane is already torn or not. if yes the leaves will just lift it off, if not you'll have to help.

they are so darned cure as babies :D

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 2:26PM
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sbrow156(Cairns QLD Australia)

Oh thats so exciting! cant wait till my pod opens so i can document mine growing too :D

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 6:11PM
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kodom087 z9a

Just a little update. Just little over a week from first sprout the leaves are getting a bit bigger and the little stems are getting a little fatter. Pic 12-02-2012

I was worried about the one on top. From the get go it's leaves were messed up and I have no idea why. It wasn't from left on membrane or seed covering. But it's starting to put out what looks like a 2nd set of leaves (or at least one more) so I'm a little less worried. All the others are starting their 2nd set as well but can't really tell from these pictures.

Kirk

This post was edited by kodom087 on Sun, Dec 2, 12 at 21:18

    Bookmark   December 2, 2012 at 9:17PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Awesome Kirk!!!

Looking great!!!

;-)

Laura

    Bookmark   December 3, 2012 at 12:57AM
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karyn1(7a)

Looking good. I figured you would have an excellent germination rate. Hopefully everyone I sent seeds to will have the same success as you. I'm going back to FL in a few weeks and am going to stop by where I got that pod. I'm going to try and talk the owner (if she's there) into selling me one of her big trees and maybe another seed pod will find it's way into my bag. lol

    Bookmark   December 3, 2012 at 6:40AM
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kodom087 z9a

Thanks, sbrow! Can't wait to see your documented process! :)

Thanks, Laura & Karyn. I'm totally enjoying this little project. And good luck on getting that lady to part with one of her big trees. Hopefully she's feeling generous that day for you. And I'll totally be laughing if another seedpod manages to find it's way home with you. I will then know for sure that you got some awesome adenium skills! :)

Kirk

    Bookmark   December 4, 2012 at 10:32AM
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kodom087 z9a

Another little update.

Both pics taken this morning, Dec 8.

Fattening up nicely. Slowly but surely.

Kirk

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 11:18AM
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kodom087 z9a

29 days after planting.

Front and center is the runt that I was worried about losing since it's leaves were messed up when it sprouted. I've become a bit partial to it as my favorite.

Some are a bit tall but some are getting fat.

Kirk

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 1:01PM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

They look really good, nice healthy shiny leaves too. Don't they grow fast! Well done.
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 4:04PM
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ltran54(9)

Wow....very good looking seedlings.
Marie

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 6:00PM
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Tracy33183(FL 10)

Congrats! Beautiful babies!

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 11:46PM
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karyn1(7a)

All are looking great. I love the fat little stems on DR seedlings.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2012 at 7:51AM
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rcharles_gw

Nice healthy seedlings and very nice photo's also.
It is quite amazing watching them grow and change and show their individual characteristics. I guess it doesn't take much to get me excited.
Rick

    Bookmark   December 18, 2012 at 9:21AM
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kodom087 z9a

Thanks everyone! I'm sure enjoying watching them grow.

Kirk

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 9:24PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

I've just received some seeds today and looking on here for starter tips. I am really impressed with your seedlings.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 5:58PM
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kodom087 z9a

Hello, everyone! Hope you're enjoying the new year so far. Here's a little update on the seedlings. I did an experiment with some of them while replanting. I put some rather large bottle caps under some of the seedlings to help spread the roots outwards when I replanted. A couple I did not do this to. Can't wait to see the results of this part of the project. All these pics were taken this morning, 01-07-2013, 49 days after planting.

Enjoy!
Kirk

Getting ready to replant.

Nice fat caudex forming on this one!

Five of the nine seedlings.

The fat one looking comfortable in his new spot.

This one is really starting to show some character on the caudex.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 12:53PM
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ltran54(9)

Kirk, they are so cute.....and looking beautiful.
Marie

    Bookmark   January 7, 2013 at 1:58PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

They look fantastic! Really healthy.
Well done Kirk!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 8:40AM
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clusty1

Hey,

What sort of dirt did you use to grow them ?

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 7:36PM
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kodom087 z9a

Thanks everyone!

Clusty, I used miracle grow cactus mix and added some perlite to the mix.

Kirk

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 8:34PM
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54641210d

Hey Kirk,

How often did you water them?

JS

    Bookmark   February 8, 2013 at 11:34PM
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kodom087 z9a

I water them every 3 days. The soil by that time is fairly dry on top but still has moisture beneath so not bone dry. They sit in an East facing window in the morning and get full sun then moved to a West facing window in afternoon for more full sun. It gets about an almost 2 hour break when the sun is directly overhead before it starts shining into the West window.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 7:25PM
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kodom087 z9a

A little update. Pics taken this morning, 2-12-2013.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 12, 2013 at 3:20PM
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54641210d

They look great!

    Bookmark   February 12, 2013 at 5:04PM
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maark23 TX/8a

Those are looking good! I want to start some seed soon.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2013 at 10:16PM
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adenium1949

Hello all,
Its great to see so many members growing from seed and being really successful. With all these seedlings on the way we should be in for a great show in the future. Well done to all.
Brian UK.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2013 at 7:27AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

I'm so impressed Kirk. You might just be my new gardening hero.
I've started a diary of my feeble seedlings under `Adenium seedlings - first time planting'. I've not been very successful with germination. Planted 15 seeds early January and have 3 seedlings. Should I persevere and hope some of the others come up or try a new batch? I'm keen to try a new batch. There are so many varieties. Can anyone recommend an easy one?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 8:39AM
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rcharles_gw

I would think that if had sown the seeds in early Jan. they should have done something by now. Generally I see them heaving the soil 3-7days depending on the age of seed. I would try again. They are remarkable plants and I believe you can achieve this with more seeds.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 9:14AM
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kodom087 z9a

Thanks everyone!

Juneyp, I aggree with Rick. I'd try some more seeds.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 3:00PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

OK. I'll buy some more seeds. Any recommendations?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 3:18PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

OK. I'll buy some more seeds. Any recommendations?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 3:19PM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

I'm trying something a little more challenging this time;
- ADENIUM ARABICUM DESERT ROSE "BLACK RCN" 20 SEEDS FRESH - (mature plant pictured). I've only grown Adenium Obesum from seed so far, with good success, but never Arabicum, so I'm looking forward to the challenge. Does anyone have any experience with Arabicum from seed? If so, I'd sure love to hear about it!

Scott

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 6:03PM
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rcharles_gw

I have some Arabicum and Thai Soco's (sold as such) started and some Arabicum just germinated and they are no different to start than the others that you have done. It is too early for me to comment on my plants as they are still quite young.
They sure heave the soil when they emerge. It is quite something.
I have followed much of NR Sundaram's advice and growing of the Adeniums. I cannot do as he because I do not live in his climate.
He plants many of his Arabicums in the ground and they grow amazingly for him. The Arabicums grow across the soil, so they need to have room in pot to do so.
I am looking forward to watching them grow.
You will enjoy it.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 10:52PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

I wish I had more space to try Arabicums. They look quite jurassic.

I have purchased some fresh Obesum seeds from Adenium Center on ebay USA. Luckily they ship to the UK. I've chosen Rose White Beauty and Suvarnabhumi. Hope they survive shipping.

Will they still be classed as fresh by the time they arrive here and do I need to soak them before sowing? I soaked the other seeds for 2 hours but they weren't fresh.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2013 at 2:51AM
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rcharles_gw

I soak mine prior to sowing all the time for 1-2hrs. In tepid water. I will not matter what the seeds age is.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 17, 2013 at 9:20AM
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kodom087 z9a

I would love to get my hands on an Arabicum and a Soco for sure! Jealous of everyone that has those. I'd love to see a picture journal of them from sprouting and growing up.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 17, 2013 at 9:33AM
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jchandra

I planted some seeds in January that sprouted, but they seemed to have stopped growing. I have them on a heat mat set to about 70 degrees, but the room temperature is about 60-65. I planted them in the Miracle Grow cactus soil as well. They are set under a HO t5 grow light. Any idea why they aren't growing well?

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 11:24PM
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rcharles_gw

They do not require the heat mat once they have germinated. The room temp. and light are beneficial for good growth.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:20AM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hello Scott. In general Arabicum seeds are quite large in comparison to the other types, especially the Obesums. So to see the size of seedling that emerges always takes me by surprise somewhat! They need no different treatment either. When young they look just the same as other types I have grown, (Obesums and Somalense) with just one exception in the case of the variety I grew...they had slightly different shaped leaves being more rounded in general. Sadly mine did not get any where near the stage where they developed their characteristic Arabicum caudex due to the 'unmentionable' incident, nor did they get large enough to show the dark skin as mine were the 'Black Pearl' variety. They did grow quickly, which for me was a bonus.
I am just about to sow some more Obesums, Arabicums and Somalense to try and replace my losses, so will be posting about their progress real soon....I hope!
Gill from the UK.

This post was edited by greenclaws on Sat, Feb 23, 13 at 15:29

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 4:44PM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

Thanks Gill & Rick - the seeds are on their way (status shows them being processed through the THAILAND POST 5 days ago) and I expect them to arrive in about 2 weeks. The top of the pellet stove in our sun room is perfect for seed germination; it's a very steady warmth (hundreds of pounds of cast iron) and adjacent to 2 of the West facing windows. I'm looking forward to their arrival and germination. I'm glad to hear too that they aren't much different than raising the Obesums; I've had good luck with them in the past. I'll post pics as the seeds germinate and grow.

Scott

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 10:39AM
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fakechuchi(7)

Hi all.

So the cover can be removed after the seeds have germinated. Should the propagation mat be removed as well? How long do they normally need to be heated? My room temp is 20C (68F, I think).

Thanks.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 5:06PM
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rcharles_gw

fakechuchi,
I the spring, I have mine on a heat mat inside a covered propagator to keep humidity at a constant. As soon as I see 60-70% heaving the soil. Then I remove the propagator cover. I mist once a day to help keep the seed husks soft so that they will drop off. I leave on heat mat for a couple more days.
They do not need to be on a heat mat after germination as long as the room temperature is warm enough. Temperature of 68F should be fine, but no cooler. Good light is important, but they do not require full sun until they have 3-4 true leaves.
This works for me.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 7:18PM
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teyo(7b)

here are some of my arabicums!
this is in october last year

and this is a few days ago

what i noticed:
- they are much taller when they sprout than obesums
- they have much more diverse character among seedlings, i really love them because of that! some are dark skinned, some are light, some are round and fat, some are pillar-like with a tuft of leaves on top. some branch immediately, some seem to think they're puff-fish :D
- they require more light than obesums, or they go into a sort of sleepy phase, not dormant in the sense that they drop leaves, but they just don't move much. at least they don't stretch like obesums
- other than light, care is the same

i will probably try to get my hands on some seeds again this spring, i want to see how big i can get them during our warm season. these were supposed to be sown in summer, but my supplier sent obesum seeds instead, so it took a while to get the real ones, and by then it was autumn already. i also have three bigger ones i bought from thailand, those mostly slept through winter...

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 7:28AM
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fakechuchi(7)

Thanks, rick. I decided to start them now, in the hope that they'll be as established as possible for the next Zone 6b winter. It's the sun I'm having issues here, it shows up at different parts of the sky throughout the year (Damn that axis tilt lol). So I set them up with a 17w t5 HO sunblaster. I hope that is enough.

Pagan

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 8:23AM
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rcharles_gw

Teyo,
The Arabicums are so interesting as you mention. I remember when I started my first (sold as Thai Soco's, sure they are just Thai Arabicums). I was amazed at how they heaved the soil so much opposed to the obesums.
It is so neat to see yours all together like that, showing all of their own characteristics. This is one part of starting them from seed that really interests me. Cannot wait to see them later on.

Pagan,
I have found for me that starting them in Feb-Mar. Gets them going and then by the time that April/May comes, I can usually move outside in a sunny protected area and they flourish. I started some a couple years ago in Oct. and the ones started the following spring where close to same size come fall.
I wish I could grow them outside most of the year, but I like where I live and we make it work.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 9:16AM
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fakechuchi(7)

Rick,

Optimum germination temp is supposed to be 25C to 35C--this means ambient temperature or soil temperature? I don't want to end up cooking the seeds.

Pagan

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 9:29AM
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rcharles_gw

I do not believe I mentioned anything about high temperatures for germinating seeds? My heat mat keeps soil at the correct temperature. I believe what I mentioned was taking them off the heat source as it is only really required for germination purposes. The ambient room or outdoor temps. would have to be above 15C for good growth along with filtered sunlight.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 2:38PM
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fakechuchi(7)

Oh I got that from the seller and various other web sources who all agreed the temperature range when germinating adenium seeds should be between 25C and 35C. But none of them were clear on whether they meant ambient or soil temperature. It just happen to fall on you to sort me out lol.

Right now, for example, the room is 20C, the heating mat is 41C and the surface temp of the soil in my adenium seed container is 32C.

At the end of this first attempt, I may very well end up with baked seeds. Or if in their native habitat, soil temperatures soar up to 40C, then, yay!

Thank you for the time and patience, I am learning a lot.

Pagan

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 3:19PM
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rcharles_gw

Hi Pagan,
The confusion for me is that I still think in Ferinheit at times.
My heat mat that I use in the house keeps the temperature 5-10 degrees C
Higher than the ambient room temperature. The temperature you state for the soil should not go higher than 35C.
I hope that I have not informed you incorrectly.
Hope they are fine for you.
Rick

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 6:51PM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

I'll be starting some Arabicum and Socotranum seeds in a couple weeks and was wondering if anyone has used Actinovate or other natural fungicide to avoid Damping-off when the seeds are initially covered in the seed germinator to keep the humidity high? If not, how do you avoid that and other funguses?

Scott

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 10:07PM
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ltran54(9)

Teyo, your babies look so cute.... fat and healthy.
When are you going to separate them? So good to see them grow bigger each day.

Marie

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 11:08PM
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teyo(7b)

i managed to cook them once, though not on a heater but outside last summer. they were left on a marble table, and the sun hit them and cooked them (it was in the heat of summer, no wonder lol). a few germinated still, but most died.

Marie, i will separate them when it warms up here. it snowed yesterday,though the forecast says we're in for a bit of warmer weather. i don't like transplanting in the cold, actually more like in cloudy weather. i've found they need light to better survive shock. unfortunately it's cloudy most of winter here, i am so sick of it and hope to move somewhere with more sun the first chance i get.
that is not even the most crowded tray i have, thankfully separating roots is easy in this mix!

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 4:43AM
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adenium1949

Hello Scott,
I find the best way to avoid fungal problems is as follows -
1) Sterilise the soil in a microwave.
2) Provide plenty of heat to get them growing quickly.
3) Remove any seed cases that are not ejected naturally and don't allow empty seed cases to remain on the soil surface.
I know a lot of growers don't bother with precautions like this and get consistently excellent results but I think it is worth it with expensive seed from special crosses.
Good luck with what you choose.

Brian UK.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 5:44AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Teyo, it appears you have the start of a forest of Adeniums. They look fantastic. Congratulations.

A batch of Obesum seeds arrived on Saturday and I planted them yesterday. 20 each of Triple White Beauty and Suvarnabhumi. They also sent a bonus 10 pack of something else (can't remember and I'm at work now). I've planted half of each pack and saved the other half to plant in a few weeks when I get a clear idea of how many have germinated. Should I store them in the fridge or somewhere warm?

I've planted each seed in a single cell and placed them on a heat mat with propagator lid over the top. Here's waiting!

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 11:48AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Goodness me. I just searched for Adenium Socotranum seeds on the web and found a UK supplier who sells seeds for between £10 and £30 for 5 seeds. This could become an expensive hobby!

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 11:58AM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

Juneyp; I recently purchased 20 Arabicum seeds for $5 US and had to pay $10 US for 10 Socotranum seeds making the Soco's 4 times as expensive. But why? Are the Soco seeds rarer or more difficult to harvest than the more common Obesum and Arabicum seeds?

Scott

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 12:29PM
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longaeva54

juneyp , there is Adenium Socotranum plant on Ebay ,GBP 10,00+ GBP 6,00 shipping

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 12:53PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

I will have a look. I'd rather spend $16 and get a plant than buy seeds and possibly not do well with germination. I need a bit more experience first.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 2:15PM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hi Scott....Wild true Socotranums are endemic to the isolated Socotra Island off the coast of Yemen in the Arabian Gulf which has only recently been partially 'opened' to the outside world. It's plantlife is unique as it supports hundreds of plants that are found nowhere else in the world, so protection orders are in force. The landscape is almost alien in appearance and so are it's plants. It sounds an amazing place to me!! The Socotranum adeniums that grow there can be massive, attaining several metres in height and girths to match and are very, very slow growing. All these factors have have pushed the price of true Socotranum seed rather high. I came across a Socotra Island site whilst reading about unusual plants of the world a few years ago when I first started to grow obesums, and I have been fascinated by the whole family ever since.

As far as I am aware Thai adenium breeders have themselves produced the variety known as 'Thai Socotranum' as this is not a naturally occuring variety...I stand to be corrected however!
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 4:42PM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hi June, seems like we are all having a seed sowing fix lately as I have also been sowing some today! We need something positive to do in these dreary days of February. Outside gardening is a no-no at the moment and I prefer to get them going now so as they are then hopefully bigger to go through their first winter than with a later sowing...that's my reasoning anyway and I have read others do the same...we can't all be wrong...can we? Ebay came up trumps (again) and a kind Gweb member offered me some seeds too to try and replace some of my lost plants.

So, the race is on and it will be interesting to find out which methods have worked best for any of us. I guess we will all do things slightly differently, be it temps, lighting, compost or whatever, the combinations are many. No doubt we will have the enevitable failures too!

This evening I have planted 3 types of obesums, arabicums and somalense also. I'll start a thread of my own to add to as and when anything happens....so far nothing has, they only went in the compost a couple of hours ago..lol!
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 5:04PM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

Thanks Gill for the Soco info, you now have my curiosity heightened and I need to research the Islands and their Flora and Fauna!

Thanks - Scott

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 6:24PM
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MRI_Guy(5a)

Wow - look what I found, thanks Gill!

Here is a link that might be useful: The strange plants of the Socotra Islands

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 7:11PM
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54641210d

Hey Kirk,

I know you mentioned what kind of soils you mix together, but can you tell me how many parts of cactus soil mix and perlite you put together?

Josette

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 7:59PM
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rcharles_gw

I got a Thai Socotranum 'Golden Crown' a couple years ago, but I would believe that more than likely it is a Thai Socotranum.
They had some 'true Socotranum'??? on eBay and they sold for a horrendous amount. Makes it tough when buying seeds and you are looking for a particular species. I believed that seeds coming off of the Island of Socotra is prohibited.
So I am told,
Rick

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 8:08PM
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kodom087 z9a

Josette,

For starting my seeds I used about equal parts cactus mix and perlite. Maybe a little more on the perlite side. From what I read and understand seedlings can take the dampness well compared to adult plants. I do have to water it every 3 days so it's not a mix that really stays soggy or anything like that. Hope this information helps or gives you a better idea.

Kirk

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 10:35PM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Thanks for the explanation Gill and the link MRI-GUY. I understand now why the seeds are pricey. Socotra Island looks stunning. I would like to visit when things have settled over there. A guided flora tour would be handy to enable viewing whilst protecting the area.

I have announced at home that I have added Florida and California to my travel wish list so I can view Adenium Obesum growing outdoors. Eyes rolled followed by smiles. It's unlikely they would do well outdoors in the UK. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 1:21AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Thanks for the explanation Gill and the link MRI-GUY. I understand now why the seeds are pricey. Socotra Island looks stunning. I would like to visit when things have settled over there. A guided flora tour would be handy to enable viewing whilst protecting the area.

I have announced at home that I have added Florida and California to my travel wish list so I can view Adenium Obesum growing outdoors. Eyes rolled followed by smiles. It's unlikely they would do well outdoors in the UK. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 1:25AM
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fakechuchi(7)

It looks like Socotra is a UN Heritage site. I will NOT touch that one. It could mean harvesting of any kind on the island is illegal (or at least heavily restricted) and if the market is willing to pay horrendous amounts of money for its flora and fauna, I would not count on the Yemeni government putting island preservation on top of its on-going concerns. We'd really rather those otherworldly vegetation stay where they are instead of getting chopped up so they can go down the supply chain and end up in my pot.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 7:35AM
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teyo(7b)

there is a botanist french guy who sells true socotranum seeds for a normal price, site is something like afroseeds.free.fr. i bought somalense and socotranum seeds from him, and had 100% germination on both. he sells plants too. as far as i've managed to see he does some work related to socotra so guess he gets seeds through that.

about the UK supplier, do NOT buy from him, many people on the adenium group have reported not receiving their orders from him, and i know personally two friends who didn't listen to advice and ordered about a month and a half ago, still no seeds. so that guy is a fraud,along with having ridiculous prices.

about thai socotranum, they are only a selection of arabicums in thailand, they have no genetic relation to true socotranum, and golden crown form exists in only one seedling, meaning it is a name for that single plant, and no other can be identical to it. be careful because some sellers will claim to sell golden crown, even have tags with numbers for "special" golden crown plants, all fraud.

edit: sorry it's not afroseeds but afroplants, see link below

Here is a link that might be useful: afroplants

This post was edited by teyo on Tue, Feb 26, 13 at 7:55

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 7:54AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

There's a supplier in Birmingham, UK on Ebay selling Yemen Adeniums. Anyone had dealings with them? Best avoided?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 8:54AM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hi June, sorry have not dealt with this particular supplier so can't really advise.
Adeniums can go outdoors during the summer if we ever get one as they do like the light and fresh air, but you would have to watch out for the enevitable rain I guess. Mine are house/g-h/bound year round. They can take up copious amounts of water during summer when in full leaf just like with the tropical downpours we saw in Bangkok where I spied my first one. Its the water and the heat that work, sadly, we seem to just get the water part of the equation!
So you too have a holiday wish list similar to mine, Florida, California and now Socotra....mmmmh, I feel a girly break coming soon, anyone else interested, lol!!!

Glad you found the Socotra site Scott, those are some amazing images and most are the same ones I saw earlier. It does look very alien don't you think!

Josette, in adition to the compost info Kirk has given you, seeds should not be allowed to dry out completely whilst germinating. He is quite correct in saying they can tolerate more water than you think without rotting, but dont saturate them, just try to keep them moist.
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 11:26AM
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dragonstone

Wow! It's been fun looking through this thread to see kodom087's seeds age over a couple months. I'm tempted to hunt down some seeds because I've been dying to have an adenium obesum for a long time now yet no stores around here ever carry them. I tried looking online but people seem to want an arm and leg for just 2 or 5 seeds and that sort of makes it daunting because I'm not sure I'd be successful in growing the seeds. Might have to rethink that now.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 4:59PM
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54641210d

Gill,
Someone mentioned that they didn't water their seeds but rathermisted them daily. Would this be a better idea for a beginner like me?

Josette

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:42AM
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sav111155

Greetings folks, I am a newbie to this site, and I must say I am SOooooo jealous. I have recently begun germinating Adenium seeds I get from Adenium Store in UK. Seeds come five to a pack. My usual is four out of five germinate, but within a month I lose most. Anyone out there willing to share with me the specifics of how you get such healthy babies? What soil? How much water, how often? How old before you pot up? I need LOTS of detail. I don't like being a murderer. :-(

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 10:06AM
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snarfie

hello sav, i'm (almost) new here too, and i have read about it, and almost all the sites are saying: let them dry out between the waterings, give them soil with good drainage, give them enough warmth (and i think i would pot them when they are between 2 and 6 weeks old)

This post was edited by snarfie on Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 12:11

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:09PM
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teyo(7b)

Don't let seedlings dry out, they are very sensitive to that when they are small, if their roots dry out they die very soon, or in the best case remain stunted for a long time.
Sav, they die how exactly? What soil did you use for them? Did they have enough light?

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 2:30PM
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fakechuchi(7)

First, I want to thank ye denizens of the Adenium hive. If you hadn't been so patient and generous with your experience, I would not have dared this project. Before this, I must confess I was a serial succulent killer. Only ZZ plants could withstand me.

So! About them seeds....

Here is my nanonursery:

I sowed 8 seeds 10 days ago in a deep ex-food container, simple mix of 50 percent ordinary potting soil and 50 percent perlite. I used a prop mat, a 17-watt high output T5 fluorescent light (the only kind that could be retrofitted into the lamp which I had originally wired for 2 LED bulbs).

What I have learned so far:

1. You guys are spot on--they grow fast! After 3 days, I thought at first that I left a seed uncovered when I sowed it but it turned out that was what "heaving through the soil" looked like! It will look like this:

After that, it's almost visibly germinating. When the seed pushed through the top soil in the morning, by evening there is enough stem to lift it completely out, like so:

2. SEED COVER: It is easier to remove the seed cover as early as you can, before the leaves start trying to push it out. When the first leaves are still small and folded, they are literally rolled up in the shape of the seed cover which will slide right out if you are carefull. If you wait for the leaves to start pushing the cover out, it will be harder to midwife the process because the leaves are already starting to open inside and resisting your meddling. I'm impatient so I tweezed before the leaves grew any bigger.

Before:

After:

3. Note on tweezer risk: I don't know if it's just my experience but it turns out the root of days-old seedlings go down to only about a centimeter below the soil line---very easy to accidentally pull out if you're trying to remove the seed cover. After that yikes moment and the mandatory 3-second blood-curdling panic, I just poked a hole into the soil and shoved the seedling back in. It's been days, it appears to be still alive:

4. WATERING: When in doubt, spritz. Maybe it's coincidence and it was going to sprout anyway, but I forgot all about misting (instead of watering) for 3 days. When I remembered and spritzed, POP! went the first seed. Then out came the rest. 7 out of 8 seeds. I'm not giving up on the last one yet. If glaring at it doesnt work, I'll dissect it later and see what's what.

5. Fungus situation: I have a fungus gnat situation that I am only beginning to learn to control so I reminded myself to take extra precautions. I had a sheet of acetate lying around somewhere so I used that to fashion a transparent cover for my container. I cut 4 tiny holes on it to provide some circulation. I thought of covering the holes with some kind of screen but never got around to it.

Days later after half of the seeds have sprouted, I noticed bright green spots on the soil surface which I am betting are happy fungus colonies.

So the next spritz was a combination of chamomile tea and cinnamon (which happens to make me want to barf). I doubt the kind of cinnamon in my kitchen is the kind that has anti-fungal properties but I am hoping that the chamomile will at least keep seedling death at bay. Yesterday I also watered the container for the first time, first with water then I waited half an hour and watered with chamomile tea. Fingers crossed, it will work and not kill the plants.

I am tempted to pull one of the seedlings out now just to see if the roots are affected at all. I think I'll wait for some visible signs of distress because at that point, there is probably little that I can do to save it. Might as well satisfy my curiosity.

6. At Day 7 when all but one of the seeds have sprouted, I removed the cover, cut a rough square hole in the middle and taped a screen to cover it. I realize a particularly determined gnat can easily geometer its way through the screen but these bugs do not seem to want to bother. The soil surface dries out within a day in my set up but remains moist just below. I have also removed the prop mat at this point.

So here they are today:

Thank you everyone, for this incredibly useful discussion. All that is left now is the wait--maybe all 7 will survive, maybe they'll "damp off" in a few days. Or, it is entirely possible Catzilla here will march on them when I put them by the window for some sun lol

Also I just received arabicum seeds and plan to sow them this weekend. Given the limited space in my nanonursery, I am considering sowing them the Teyo way (i.e. in a tight, neat phalanx) but I am terrified by the prospect of having to separate them when it is time to repot to individual containers.

Salamat!

Pagan

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 11:08PM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hello everyone, apologies to Josette for not answering her recent question, I missed it having not been on the forum for several days. I trust you got the answer from the other posts that have appeared since? Nice to see some others are having good results with seeds, it will be interesting to follow everyones experiences as time goes on.
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 5:53AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Look at these bad boys!
These are the seeds I planted on 24th Feb.
Front row 10 out of 12 Triple White Beauty.
Middle row 9 out of 12 Suvarnabhumi.
Back row 4 out of 5 Pitunia.
The Pitunia seeds were free with the others. I'm really pleased with these.

The other 3 Adeniums planted months ago are not much taller, just a little fatter than they were in my last photo. The one I pulled the seed pod off too early developed mould on a leaf last week so I pinched it off and it seems to have recovered this week.

This time I planted them in individual cells in a large tray using a 50/50 mix of cactus compost and vermiculite. Covered the tray with a clear lid and invested in a heat mat and placed it all on a window sill.

Checked the soil every couple of days to ensure it didn't dry out and hey presto! So glad for all the tips I have picked up on this forum.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 6:06AM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Hi June...so another one of us has been well and truly bitten by the dreaded seed sowing bug, lol!! We will all have more plants than we know what to do with soon.... here are my latest 13 a couple of days ago. You can almost see them growing daily. I've another batch cooking on gas in the propagator that I planted yesterday. I had thought about selecting perhaps the 2 best of each type but I'm a whimp, I just can't cull them like that. They will all get a fair chance, the decision to live rests with them not me!!
By the way....what's happened to that lovely spring sun we have been enjoying for the past week...todays fog certainly wasn't asked for!
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 9:45AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Hi Gill
I'm with you on the cull. If they all survive I could do a swop or give as gifts.
Your little ones are looking healthy. Which variety are they?
We've had thick fog all day so the sun lamp is on now. Roll on spring!

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 11:57AM
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juneyp(UK 8a)

Forward planning...how do folk post plants? How soon could I post seedlings? Should I wait until they are a minimum size? How should they be packaged?

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 12:03PM
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durch

i skimmed this thread and all i can say is WOW. you all are really complicating a simple process.
i know. i know. some folks thrive on complication and that's fine.
those who are more interested in the keep it simple model can rest assured that there's a solution for you.
i'm not going to post a long set of instructions here now but i'm willing to give my thoughts to anyone who asks me directly.
chris
durhambotanicals@earthlink.net

    Bookmark   March 6, 2013 at 12:39PM
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fakechuchi(7)

It's kind of like having your first child, Chris. The first time you do it, you have no clue what you're doing so you start out with this complex monster protocol in anticipation of what could go wrong. Eventually, you figure out what shortcuts and simplifications are possible without ruining the project, no?

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 7:09AM
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teyo(7b)

Chris, since this is a community, maybe it would be nicer to write openly if you have better ideas to help newbies...

Ontopic:
Here are some sprouts from a bit modified paper towel method. I just used synthetic kitchen towels to which roots won't stick too much. I've now transplanted them to my usual growing mix. The one on upper left had some mold on it, i treated it with some fine rock dust that is usually used as fertilizer, but i've found it to be a mild fungicide too.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 10:15AM
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greenclaws UKzone8a

Well that method certainly worked too didn't it? Not one I've tried myself, but hey, if it works!
Gill from the UK.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 11:11AM
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teyo(7b)

Yup, works great. This was the third day since starting (kinda silly to call this sowing lol). Just wanted to show some more options, i think this method is very good for beginners because it is much cleaner than soil, meaning less fungus and stuff. This upper layer is awesome, it is actually a mesh, completely useless as a kitchen towel but great for this use. It wicks moisture from the bottom layer but lets air in through the mesh. The container is from cream cheese :))
I will now just wash the towels in mild bleach and re-use the whole thing for another batch of seeds, advantage of synthetics.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 5:39PM
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fakechuchi(7)

Hey Teyo. How do you transplant them after they've broken out like that? Just kind of lay them down on the surface or actually stick them in vertically?

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 8:12PM
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teyo(7b)

i don't think it matters much, but i put them in at an angle, sorta like they would grow naturally when they sprout. i use a very coarse mix, so i have to be careful at first that their root or shell doesn't dry out. in a finer mix you could just stick them vertically i guess.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2013 at 5:41AM
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chuy415

very interesting to read through this thread and find folks that are so knowledgeable and show some of us (like myself) that are beginners that growing from seeds can work in different ways. I planted seeds in a rectangular plastic container/planter and put about 35 seeds, about 40% perlite and rest potting soil. I did this on 2/26 and it's now 3/8... I've seen nothing.. Im in southern california and have read different threads here on GW and thought i'd be in luck since it looks and sounds pretty simple. I stored about 25 or 30 seeds in the fridge hoping i'd try this again with a different method. i've sprayed a little water almost everyday to keep a little moist but not soaked. it's been in full sun about 5 hours in a day, i've now put it in a room with sun and about 65 to 70 degrees or so, it did rain a couple nights ago and I left it to get wet. thanks for any help, comments, advice....

Chuy

    Bookmark   March 8, 2013 at 1:15PM
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