why Is the inside of my AV flower dry and brown before open

philpetApril 8, 2014

Hi everyone, this is my av, but I have noticed that the inside of the flower are brown and dry before fully open. The flower in the pic just opened a day ago and when I looked on the unopened buds you can also see the brown middle. Can someone please tell me what's causing this as its very disappointing and unatractive :( . Thanks for any sugessions offered. VelletA

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quimoi

I believe it is called "bud blast" and can be caused by various things. I've had a couple of flowers just brown, but I think it must the dryness but that 's not an issue for you, is it?

Someone said that thrips can cause it so look for them. I do hope it's not it. Also the slightest presence of cooking gas is said to do it.

I'm sure someone else will be along. I just happened to be doing a little reading on it because I had a couple of blossoms brown for me.

It is disappointing.

Diana

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:02PM
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philpet

Thanks Diana,so I rule out cooking gas,could be bud blast because I recently got them,and I am praying its not trips,I will have to examine closely and see this is the only one showing these symptoms, thank goodness. Velleta

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:29PM
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quimoi

I was reading about powdery mildew and found a reference to "blossom botrytis blight." I do hope this isn't the problem but here is the page I was reading:

http://www.avsa.org/faq-diagnosis

Diana

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 1:29PM
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lucky123

Velleta
I found one compound, Sulfur Dust, that can be brushed on with a soft bristle brush, very light dusting that may help control boryitis, powdery mildew, and thrips (?). You might research that although I have read that boryitis is incurable. Most pest questions aren't really about what it is but how do I get rid of it.

This post was edited by lucky123 on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 16:20

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 4:15PM
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philpet

Thanks lucky,but only the flowers are showing symptoms,as you can see the leaves are ok and I don't know if dusting the flower is possible or even if I can get it in Jamaica. Velleta

    Bookmark   April 8, 2014 at 6:08PM
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Linda

Velleta,

Is this one of the ones you just bought? Plants often take a while to settle in to their new surroundings. Bud blast is the first thing that comes to mind. Buds are fragile and will often be the first thing that is affected by a change of environment. Nothing to be done about it but the next bloom cycle should be better.

You should be isolating your new ones. Spilled pollen and tiny holes should be present in the pollen sacs if it is thrips.

Sulfur dust is used for diseases not insects. I don't know if the sulfur dust is a different product than plain sulfur. Plain sulfur is very effective in controlling PM. I don't mess around with Botrytis Blight. It is difficult to cure and highly contagious. Affected plants are tossed (outside!)

Linda

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 12:40AM
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fortyseven_gw

Botrytis Blight has been mentioned in this thread. Is this something to research? Is it a realistic concern for this plant, or might the plant more likely simply be adjusting to the new environment? I had some that did this, they needed a bit more humidity, that was all. Joanne

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 1:18AM
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quimoi

Botrytis blight is a fungal issue and it was mentioned in Joyce Stork's column. I can't really find too much about it just affecting the blossoms. No good photos or anything.

I would isolate the plant just to be safe but I don't know enough about botrytis to know and Joyce Stork did bring it up in that answer. My feeling is that it's not botrytis but I'm no expert there. I wouldn't think it would be dry. Anyone???

With the "slightest presence of cooking gas" I have a hunch that various writers are just repeating something without knowing what they are repeating because that exact phrase keeps turning up. Do they only mean propane? Do they include piped natural gas? How about if you have a gas dryer, hot water heater, space heater?

I suspect you have to have a pretty good gas leak before it affects your blossoms. My mom always had them in the kitchen and had a stove with first propane and then piped natural gas. The older stoves had pilot lights that were lit all the time. I have a gas stove, gas heat, gas dryer, gas hot water heater (piped natural gas) but they don't have pilot lights any more.

Diana

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 9:46AM
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philpet

Thanks Linda,Joanne and Diana. First I do isolate,second I really don't think its any kind of gas,that being said,I think boytritis blight would also affect the leaves and the leaves are ok,the older ones are a bit yellow but the new ones are green and healthy as you can see.now that I review it has been through a lot,travelling over 150miles,being repotted and adjusting to a totally different environment all at once I think Linda and Diana might be right about the bud blast.as I mention this is the only plant showing these symptoms and come to think of it,this was the plant with the most buds when I got them so that would also point to bud blast.well hopefully as Linda suggested the next bloom cycle will be better.oh and I did not see and evidence of trips either.no holes or anything.ok then I will just watch and see if anything else happens and will keep you guys up to date,thank for everyone suggestions and help.Velleta

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 10:36AM
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Linda

This plant does not have botrytis; I think we just got off on a tangent there!

Botrytis is associated with an over-all collapse of the plant. I found a link showing this.

The presence of gas refers to any gas that would be leaking into the home environment. This usually becomes evident when the heat is turned on in the winter. A very small amount can be damaging to the buds especially if the leak is close to the plants.

Linda

Here is a link that might be useful: Botrytis on AV

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 11:10AM
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quimoi

Again, I think you would have to have a gas leak worth checking out for your own safety if it affected your plants. The lines are there all year long, not just when the heat comes on.

However, they keep saying "cooking gas" which isn't particularly accurate.

It was Joyce Stork's response to a question in the AVSA FAQ that brought up the blossom botrytis blight. It sounds like it will affect the blossoms before affecting the entire plant. I would certainly keep it in mind even if I didn't think that was the issue since it is such a serious problem.

Diana

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 11:50AM
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philpet

Thanks again Diana. velleta

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 1:39PM
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quimoi

Sure, Velleta. We all trust that it's just the change of environment and the trip though. It's great that you are isolating. That is something so many of us slip up on.

I caught the sun hitting on Ice Storm which was one that had a bud shrivel so maybe that was the issue. The other bud was upstairs. I do put a curtain on that window after the sun moves around. Our sun is pretty weak right now.

Diana

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 2:05PM
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fortyseven_gw

Hi Linda
thanks

Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Wed, Apr 9, 14 at 14:49

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 2:28PM
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lucky123

Linda
You are correct. Sulfur is used as a fumigant (burned, very poisonous) in commercial operations and used around plants to prevent Boryitis in hydroponics. I don't know if that is effective. I would toss the plant also
California growers have dumped thousands of metric tons of sulfur dust and sprayed lime sulfur to control various pests and fungus, mostly on citrus and grapes.
Sulfur is effective in areas with cool nights and warm days. It is applied, dust or spray when the dew is on the plants in the morning. Then as the sun warms, the sulfur releases a gas. According to Cal Ag, it is not effective in cool or cloudy climates. I have read it is not effective over 90 F
Sulfur or Flowers of Sulfur is plain sulfur. Good to dust or brush on but Sulfur Dust is a commercial product that may include lime (Ph is a problem with sulfur) and other ingredients.

This post was edited by lucky123 on Wed, Apr 9, 14 at 18:17

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 2:36PM
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Linda

Botrytis blight has a different look to it than does bud blast. Bud blast usually has a drying effect to it while BB looks wet and slimy. It then proceeds to a mold on the flowers. I think we're all correct about the bud blast on Velleta's violet.

Let us know if the next bloom cycle is any better, Velleta, Then we can see if our diagnosis was correct!

Linda

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 6:32PM
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philpet

Thanks everyone as I said theirs no change of a gas leak,we don't use pipes for gas here,we use a cylinder that connected to our stoves and the only time gas can escape is if we leave the burners on without lighting the stove.ok and I honestly don't think its boytritis blight.it would be showing more symptoms and look wet,which its not.so bud blast seem the only culprit left.so I will watch and report bk so we will see what happens.again to everyone.i am happy its not something incurable.Velleta

    Bookmark   April 9, 2014 at 11:47PM
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quimoi

Velleta,

What you have described is Liquified Petroleum Gas (sometimes abbreviated LPG) used for the stoves, also known as propane or butane. That's what we had at home before we got natural gas (the underground pipe kind). However, I don't think it's the issue either. It wouldn't choose one plant.

I only meant to say that the phrasing of that bit of advice wasn't really accurate and yet I'd found it multiple places.

Added: Since sometimes other readers find these threads, I looked up "cooking gas" and it does seem to refer to LPG or the "bottled" gas instead of the natural gas. I think natural gas might do the same thing, but I don't want to sit a plant beside my unlit stove to see.

I've had a couple of blossoms brown when they were near the cook top, but I only sit plants there waiting to repot them and I tend to neglect them for a day or two so I don't know if it's the gas or the neglect. It's on an island so they sit right beside the stove.

I'm happy it's nothing incurable too. My understanding of the botrytis blossom blight is that it then progresses. There are a lot of photos of it on other plants and it looks like something I've seen on outdoor plants. It's not exactly slimy but mostly looks either decayed or moldy on those ones.

Diana

This post was edited by quimoi on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 11:30

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 10:00AM
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philpet

Thanks again Diana.velleta

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 10:07AM
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quimoi

Do you know what the name of it is? It looks like it will be very pretty once it gets over its issue :).

Diana

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 10:15AM
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philpet

Oh and to clear the air,I live in Jamaica,Linda knows this.we don't use heaters or anything like that here,we have a tropical climate right through the year, so lots of sunshine, we also have a rainy season that last from about June to September but still get plenty of sunshine in between,so no need for any form of heaters,hence no gas whatever.ð .Velleta

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 10:16AM
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quimoi

I know you live in Jamaica and don't need the heat. Do you cook with electric instead of the "bottled gas" as we used to call it?

Jamaica apparently uses a lot of LPG so maybe it was used where you bought the plants. LPG is the name of the gas cylinders and probably is the "cooking gas" referred to in those warnings.

Thanks for explaining your climate though. You will have rain when we hope for sun.

Diana

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 11:11AM
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philpet

Diana,I use the bottled gas.and now that you mention it anything is possible,I mean they were grow in a different environment before mine so maybe they were expose their or who knowðÂÂÂ,anyways as I said I am happy its not fatal soi will just hope for better blooms next cycle around.thanks again to everyone for helping me to play detectives with my AVðÂÂÂ. Velleta

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 1:57PM
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quimoi

I hope it clears up for the next bloom cycle too. Thanks for encouraging me to learn something about Jamaica :)

Happy growing,

Diana

    Bookmark   April 10, 2014 at 2:43PM
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