My Mme Isaac Pereire has yellowing leaves and brown spots.

nadia214June 7, 2010

My beloved Mme Isaac Pereire has yellowing leaves and brown spots. I am an amatuer rose grower but really love this rose! Any help is appreciated. Its still tiny. I got it last year from Heirloom roses as a band. It flowers well though...or atleast I think it does..maybe my expectations are low though..I don't know?! I got maybe 2 flowers from it last year when I first planted it. This year, so far, I have gotten maybe 3-4 flowers from it.

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jerijen(Zone 10)

Nadia, she's a Bourbon.
And she's a picky Bourbon, at that.

Here at the coast, we grew her years ago, and finally decided to give up. As lovely as she is, she suffered from every fungal disease known to man -- and THAT was back when we sprayed.
Rust, Mildew, Anthracnose, cercospora, downy mildew, and various unidentified cankers.

In the end, I wasn't willing to waste time and effort on a consumptive rose.


    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 9:32PM
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greybird(z7 TX)

MIP is the most prima of PrimaDonnas. I know there is an ideal place where she grows and blooms happily. it just ain't here. I keep mine potted as her appearance is unsightly most of the time. I got her based on the glowing reports of her incomparable beauty and fragrance, boy was I disappointed! And ironic, as bourbons as a class love my climate.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2010 at 11:24PM
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Mine is about 4 years old and gets blackspot and yellow leaves all the time. I don't spray. Mine bloomed little the first full year, but you should also expect many more than 3-4 flowers. Yours should start sending out 6'+ canes this year, and a little longer in subsequent years. In the spring, each long cane on mine sends up several stems, each bearing a few blossoms. I basically get a twelve-foot wide mound, half fragrant pink, half green. Rebloom is sporadic. Someone on this forum says MIP needs water for rebloom, which fits my experience. I don't water, but if we get a rainy spell, it is followed by a little flush. Despite the blackspot, mine is vigorous (so far, knock on wood), and I am glad I have her. Another drawback is that it is big, strong and thorny, which makes maintenance a literal pain.

We clearly live in different places, and locality makes a difference. If you tell us about where you are, someone in your area might be able to give you a more reliable answer.


    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 8:21AM
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If it wasn't for the outstanding fragrance - I would not grow MIP. But she is one of the most fragrant roses to be had. But like other said she is very susceptible to fungal diseases - and she is very thorny ...
Mine did not rebloom well until the 3. year and from then on - it has bloomed in flushes - I live far north in Europe in milder colder climate - but grow the rose in a protected corner with 5-6 hours of morning sun only. I have wrapped the long shoots around a 6 feet tall metal support and it forms a dense 7-8 feet tall bush. I could not grow it without spraying it - it gets rust, mildew and black-spot - even sprayed - and I have to prune and train it well to maintain the shape - pruning it pretty hard after the first flush - and then it takes a brake until the next flush - it really reblooms well for me now - but she is not an easy rose to grow well - but since she repay my care and work with many hundreds gorgeous ultrafragrant roses in each flush - I am willing to put up with her.

MIP is the rose top right in this picture:

    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 9:39AM
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vuwugarden(Central TX 8b)

Wow, cupshaped_roses, your MIP looks very healthy to me! Like you, I put up with her due to her fragrance.

I'm going to use your technique by pruning her back hard after the first flush to hopefully encourage better production.

Sorry, Nadia, I don't have an answer for your question, as my MIP is only a one-year-old plant too.

Take care,


    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 12:20PM
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Audrey - be sure to let MIP build up well before you prune the laterals back to about 3 - leaves/eyes. That will produce new blooming laterals. It can become a huge rose - but I like to train it more - twisting the long canes around the about 24 inch in diameter metal support. It makes it produce many more blooming laterals - traning it this way. Growing naturally it will produce a big mound and it can send out 10 feet canes - first year these will only bloom at the tips - but next they will produce many blooming laterals/sideshoots. This is why I think that growing this rose with some kind of support - like training the long shoots horizontally on a trellis/fence/arbor produces the best results. Most freestanding MIPs I have seen look messy - huge thorny canes whipping all over - or the flowers are so high up that we can't smell them.

The picture is 2 year old (plant 5 year old) and it only had a little mildew/very little rust at the time(I just sprayed and removed the infected leaves - and the summer pruning together with spraying kept it pretty clean. This year it has more rust and after picking the infected leaves/spraying it has lost about 20-25 percent of the leaves but looks pretty good now. Later in the season it also gets a little blackspot - but mildew and rust are worst here. So it is not an easy rose - but for those who are willing to put up with this work/care/spraying - they can choose if they think it is worth it. I love ultra fragrant roses - and will not live without it.

I hope Nadia is up for a challenge. If all roses were this much work - I would not have time to grow many.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 1:47PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

The other thing is -- I think MIP is simply ill-suited to Southern California.
It can be grown here, but only with the expenditure of great effort and a lot of chemical sprays.
There are better roses for here.

Most (if not all) of the books that extol it were written in England -- None were written in SoCal.
You'll always do best if you grow roses suited to your environment.


    Bookmark   June 8, 2010 at 8:37PM
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Wow, cupshaped roses.. what a picture.. I think you are right Jeri.. she may not be suited for here. But what spray are you referring to everybody? I don't typically spray my roses.. I release lady bugs and have heard about Neem Oil.. but that is it. I have small kids that run around in the garden so spraying chemicals is simply a no no for me. All I do is use superthrive and miracle grow.. Forgive me I am am a newbie gardner :/ !!!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2010 at 1:15AM
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I am referring to Bayer Advanced Disease Control - A systemic fungicide ( Tebuconazole) that is absorbed by the plants. Or Systhane (active ingredient : Myclobutanil) another systemic fungicide.
If you do not want to spray your roses with fungicides - the list of roses that you can grow well will be more limited. All the classic ultra-fragrant old garden roses you may have read about - will probably not be possible to grow in your area with out spraying - unless you want to put up with ghastly looking thorny sticks with yellow, spotted, crinkled ( Every fungal disease "Known to man" - on the few leaves they were able to cling on to ... and "enjoy" the few flowers you do get ...
No-spray - limits your choices - but besides the classic, to - die - for fragrant Old garden rose beauties from Europe - there are other roses and maybe classes of roses that will do better in your area. Listen to Jeri's advice and local experience - and research by going to see local gardens - what do well there and what roses YOU like - also ask if they spray their roses to keep them looking like this - if they do - another one not to put on the list.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2010 at 5:34AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

You paint a bleak picture, Cupshaped.

In reality, the spectrum of roses that are ideal for this area is pretty broad. It's just not the same roses YOU would grow.

We grow a LOT of big-bloomed, lovely, fragrant old roses here, disease-free, spray-free.
(And DEFINITELY not with the use of soil-applied chemicals, either.)
You just have to pick and choose, and there are many to choose from.

Many of our roses come from the ranks of Found Roses, which survived in CA with no care, no watering, and certainly no spray. And that's a great place to start.


    Bookmark   June 9, 2010 at 1:26PM
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