Woeisme - anyone HELP! Betta with one eye

sherryazure(6)January 22, 2006

buldging. Just as I was about to post about 'successful' transfer from his Betta 2 gallon container to the 'community' 20 gallon - 3 bronze cories, one mystery fish either non descript tetra or perhaps rhasbora (sorry for sp) planted with java ferns and anuibias.

Betta and tetra found equalibrian, and seemed to play with each other (in their own manner, lol) when I released this beautiful half moon white/pink boy. (well to me anyway, considered scrap by breeders) I was so happy for him, swimming with the tetra, with the cories, sleeping at night in the plant 'nest' I had prepared for him on left side of tank near top with driftwood.

Then on Sat early morn, I look at fish. (One reason why I wanted him in flat faced glass is to see him better for you can't really see well in bowls or cylinder tanks due to distortion.)

UgH! One eye slightly buldging out. My stomach sinks.

I have spent two days now researching as I am not sure if pop eye or injury. I did notice he would wedge himself between anubias batteria (sp) plant leaf that was near glass. ie he would try to swim down where leaf was next to glass and then get frozen (I gently moved leaf for him to extracate himself, but he would repeat this rather then swim up right or left) Could he have injured his eye.

When I got him about two weeks ago, the ph from the store was not near 6.0 even. I took one day to slow drip water to his holding tank, perhaps still too fast. My water is great, everything zero, 3 day aged and extra filtered, pet stores was horrific and cold.

Did research and not sure what to treat with. Many different choices, based on what and without miscroscope can't identify exact 'bug'. Now in quarantine filtered tank with aquarium salt and a bit of epsons'. (figured diff properties) and with General Cure which has metronidazole in it (along with copper sulfate, and trichlorfon). I read and read, and not sure if made correct choice but also local store and other had not to many choices.

Some sites say this - some say that. NO one seems to agree but due to various possible causes I can understand the confusion and diff succesful choices or not. Am going to call aquarium pharma Monday to ask their opinion. Only one eye, his left, but getting a bit more extended..

He is very active, as if nothing wrong, still eating like a pig, (or rather would if he could, feed twice daily) can still see I think as he still follows my finger with both eyes (who really knows though).

I have never had a fish with this, and along with dropsy I hoped never to have to deal with. ( read where ph changes can cause osmoregulartory problems with eyes???)

What to do... Thanks for any and all help. Sherry

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Sherry - water changes will correct the eye. And swelling should go down after a while. IMO, the rasbora will be too aggressive in the tank with the betta. What we think of as play is sometimes stress to the fish. Stress may have brought out this bacterial infection (which is showing in the eye as popeye).

I really am reluctant to use salt with bettas. I don't think it works, and have found them to be less tolerant to salt than other tropicals. Sometimes mixing salt AND other OTC meds really can make things worst.

BTW - I've had a few fish with popeye where the eye has burst. Both eye sockets healed over. They were one-eyed fish, but lived out their lives and succumbed only to old age.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2006 at 12:32AM
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woeisme(z7b NC)

I have no experience with popeye or eye injuries. I have had instances back a while where an eye had been plucked in a fight. The eye healed the way skygee explained. Personally I have had luck with killing ICH on a betta with a high dose of salt and raising temperature to near max. The salt didn't affect the betta in anyway except positively. I would assume that the reason most people conflict over what is the best "way to do things" is because of the variables in their water chemistry. I guess all the pieces have to fit. With all the variables in peoples water supplies and other additives and filter medias they may be using, one "cure" or "medication" could have a different result from aquarium to aquarium. It could make the "cure" toxic, effective or inert>>. Best advise is from people who have dealt with this in your speciic area. That is hard to do sometimes. I would think that epsoms can help, kinda like flushing the system. Some salt for its healing benefits. Skygees advise sounds good, guess this is part of the learning process for you. The trouble is if you move to a different neck of the woods, things that worked well before, may not. One more note: My method of acclimating a fish is to remove the fish in the bag of LFS water it came in,, to anappropriate sized container. I use old tupperware iced tea pitchers that where bleached and of course rinsed well and aged. I just carefully pour the fish and all in. I then guess the volume of water and add 1/4 of that, from my QT tank, with a slow pour. After 5 minutes I pour out a 1/4 of the fish water and replace with the same ammount of QT water. I repeat this for about a 1/2 hour (sometimes I do 10 minutes for an hour). By this time the fish is acclimated to the new water temps and elements. I never had a fish flipout from this. But that can be lumped into what I was saying before. I would guess that the betta you got had been sitting in his unchanged cup of water, filled with ammonia. The ammonia level can cause a pH crash as well as weeken the fish enough making it suseptible to bacterial infections. So like it was reccomended, maybe just good healthy conditions may help kickstart him back to health. Good luck keep us posted on recovery and curing methods so we can benefit from this experience.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2006 at 11:13AM
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Test unable to post and emails not delivered testing. Sherry

    Bookmark   January 26, 2006 at 2:30PM
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    Bookmark   January 26, 2006 at 2:31PM
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When fish in quarantine tank (white pink betta popeye in 2.5 galllon eclispe) how often to do water changes. Isn't too much stress as well. Now I had spent time with larger tanks to cycle, but even in all tanks syphon off bottom about 1 inch or so depending on overall size, daily or every other day to reduce gunk if there. (bigger water change spaced out less often of course) I DID syphon earlier cories with ich daily and change frequently, but not sure about betta ie less is best.. So would you suggest a bit daily (just did 100% water change with him and fresh med's per instructions ) charcoal is out of filter (on top) and he has his plants.

Betta Blue, syphoned off bottom, and realized I had transferred plants from sick cory tank (small swords as light brighter where his tank is) before I knew they had ich.

I have been trying to figure out how to pretreat plants from stores. any thoughts for a dip.

Also, saw on vet med sight late last night which makes more sence to me as it explains things on cell level, that most of these fish illness are same bacteria parasites as per people. Would be interesting to figure out more natural less toxic way of treatment as I did for self. (takes time and microscope for fish) I had pop eye as a baby so my nurse mom informed me (due to thymus enlargement which back then was treated with ikes huge doses of radiation!

    Bookmark   January 26, 2006 at 3:49PM
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woeisme(z7b NC)

When fish in quarantine tank (white pink betta popeye in 2.5 galllon eclispe) how often to do water changes. Isn't too much stress as well---- I guess the eclipse is not cycled? if not dont worry about it keep it like it where a bowl, cycling an aquarium is not good with an allready weekend fish. Also, some meds will crash a system anyway. Just re-read you have plants, in that case check ammonia levels daily, if they are detectable PWC, the plants will most likely take care of things. ----I have been trying to figure out how to pretreat plants from stores. any thoughts for a dip.--- some people use a bleach solution, I never did, just QT'ed them for 2 months like a fish.----Salt (NaCl) for ICH ,stress and slimecoat as well as "bites" and epsom salt for constipation. Other then that good quality water conditions and maintainance help them fight off parasites by keeping their strenth.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2006 at 4:24PM
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When it comes to sick fish (with bacterial or fungal diseases), I find water changes still are the first remedy that I'll use - and usually one that seems to help out the most.

With ich... keep in mind that ich is present pretty much in all tanks. Only fish who are stressed wind up actually getting ich. I've had ich in the tank with some fish, while others it never hits at all. Raising the temps usually does the job in speeding up the lifecycle.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2006 at 7:43AM
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james_ny(z7 NY)

I've never had much success cureing eye problems, so take this with a grain of salt. I would insure your water parameters stay perfect [test and water changes], keep a close eye out for other symptoms on the betta as well as the other fish. Don't make any other changes [add new fish or meds], make sure there no sharp objects in the tank. As long as he is eating there's a good chance he'll be OK. What was the store's ph vs your tanks? If it's a lot I would suspect this causing the problem. I have resbora's and there very gentle fish. Good luck.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2006 at 11:09AM
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Thanks one and all:

First Woeisme, in old Innes book lists Permanganate of Potash (is a poison as with most this stuff and maybe why I can't find it now) is a great plant dip - diluted of course. In leu of bleach I would suggest hydrogen peroxide, I have no way of testing how well it does with plants and this last batch I just transferred without thinking about it.

James: PH from his toilet bowl water (little bowl at store) was barely 6.. I was shocked, and when I mentioned it they shrugged (concider me a pest because I complain so much) That's it but apparently not many good choices in Manhattan proper.

I ordered great foods (I think) from medigold site, as I believe that improving immune system with better foods will go a long way. Waiting for their arrival.


Ph seemed high in cat tank, not sure why with piece of driftwood in it, so took out one last rock not sure but may have been it... lowering gently with small pinch of peat in filter (no charcoal) down from 7.4 to 7.1 over a few days (going slow) I know meds raise this as well as I tested them and salt once... all other indicators amnia, nitrate/nitrite in all at zero... the water in all had been cycled for a while and was ok before introduction of fish, but know meds again changes that. I left them in their original tank as they get stressed in smaller tanks for quarantine so hopefully this was correct decision. Tubing out bottom sand water every other day...

Cats... one who was worse off, and who's swimming behavior forced me to look (you know when one is sick you just don't want any more so try not to look) under brighter light...

Swiming swimingly now... (he was listing while resting) so think they will be find. No more fish from New World Aquarium as well (very dark tanks so hard to see in first place) He flashed or scratched a bit less on 2nd day has stopped unless he is doing it at night. so far so good.

Blue betta: Stopped flashing, can't see his skin well as he is in 3 gallon cylinder tank... treating with maracide and betta fix, with changing water at bottom... I held light over him in dark, but I have no experience with velvet, so med I am using is good so they say for both ick and velvit (maracide) and betta fix... seems much better per his behavior, eating well, (down to once a day) and swimming gently and poking around in plants and sand, (looking for food, they sure act like pigs)

and finally the White Betta:

I am sure now the red I saw was/is septimia and feel bad I didn't address it earlier, but put head in sand. I have spent now almost 80 bucks on food and med's for a 3.99 fish... I am exhausted with doing research. But am determined.

So, red retreating. Appetite great. think he saw less in swollen eye one day but day after he could see my food.. other eye a bit extended, but neither as bad as what I've seen per photos on diff message boards (pray for me please,lol)

He swims back and forth and was worried a bit but not flashing. I realized since he was always very very active (half moon I think no long fins like others) that he seems to be pacing like those bored poor animals in zoos of old. so moved him nearer to me so he can see something, and he stares at me.

Got med's from bettatalk, but have no idea how to evaluate any thing as some say have good experience with triple sulpha, she (very experience betta breeder) uses ampicilan which treats both gram neg and gram pos.... Says give treatment 3 weeks before making a change (ie wrong meds')

Until the med gold fish food arrives (talked with Rick there) I am soaking his food in his meds as aquarium pharma person said it is hard to get meds into their system.

thanks again one and all, and hopefully things will improve over time... I have to remember patience and time... Best Sherry

    Bookmark   January 30, 2006 at 10:50AM
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Again, not sure if mystery fish tetra or what but I am going to agree with you... he is now chasing cories (ones he grew up with) hangs around them but now as if he is nipping their butt kind of chase, and they fly forward. guy at pet store has large sword planted tetra tank and will take him. Think he will be happier there and when betta recovers (think positive right) he can have his 20 gallon tank as his new home, and blue in with two cats in 10 gallon...

James no sharp objects and foam over intake and outtake of water in/out flows. thanks again all. slm

    Bookmark   January 30, 2006 at 10:54AM
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Anyone had luck with a molly who's popeye is unresponsive to treatment? Meds, water changes, added salt, quarantined... no response. Still very active, feeds normally and swimming around a lot, but fins clamped. Also noteworthy, perhaps, is that she went, literally overnight, from a round-belly (as is characteristic of molly girls) to not-round. But no babies in tank. Weird? As i said, she's still quite active, hides once in a rare while, but otherwise fairly normal (even still being prodded by the males here and there).

She came to me from an owner who had a tankful of mollies who were not well kept for, fortunately out of many many fish i've only lost one adult and one very small baby HOORAY! Diligent water changes and testing has paid off.

And... my male betta, who has permanent swim-bladder-disorder, has REALLY come to life in the tank with them! He's swimming all about and feeding much more excitedly than before. YAY!

Anyone had luck with a MOLLY whose eye has ruptured? i am so sad and hoping she is not in pain...

please send email if you wish to cynister1 ::at:: gmail ::dot:: com

    Bookmark   April 30, 2007 at 3:47PM
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