Requirements for AVSA registration

fortyseven_gwDecember 13, 2013

Hi Linda
With 15,000 named varieties, how different can they all actually be from each other?
Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Mon, Apr 14, 14 at 4:08

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Linda

Joanne,

AVSA encourages registration of violets that are different from, and superior to, other hybrids. However, there is no set standard or rules that must be followed to register your plants. The last time I checked, (which was recently), all one had to do was fill out a form and pay a fee to register a plant. That is why there are so many registered plants and so many that look alike.

Technically, while many violets look alike, they are not the same plant just as siblings may look alike but are different individuals. The same is true for plants. And while many variations are possible for violets, with so many registered varieties, there are bound to be many which appear identical.

Some hybridizers do not register their plants because they are not superior; some just choose not to for various other reasons. I believe I once read that Ms. Fredette did not register many of her hybrids and that because of this, they could not be shown. Pity because she had some beautiful plants.

As I stated before, the registration process is simple and straightforward and I do not believe a judge is involved in the process.

Many hybridizers will sell unregistered violets because they are good growers/bloomers but are not superior enough to other varieties to be registered. The idea is to continue to improve the violet and only register the outstanding cultivars.

There is no 'best' when building a collection. Grow what makes you happy and what does well for you. Growers who show usually grow only registered varieties because in most cases only a registered variety can be shown although I have started noticing NOID classes at some shows.

If a violet is true through three generations it can be registered. If it sports before the third generation, it cannot. Sporting is a freak occurrence. Not every plant of a named variety will sport and not all sports will be the same. There will always be the original named plant. Some plants, such as PS, sport more readily because they are genetically unstable, but not all PS turn into a totally new variety.

Anyone have any other thoughts or info?

Linda

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 3:40AM
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fortyseven_gw

Dear Linda, This is fantastic information and so well-stated! In theory, the possibilities for registration are endless. It occurred to me, as you stated, that the look-alikes are genetically not identical. Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 14:47

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 12:17PM
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froeschli

Huh, I was wondering about hybridizing and registration etc too :-)
seen as I only just really got into this, it can be a bit overwhelming to grasp the many varieties, plus sports, plus all the different outcomes from one seed pod (I finally managed to find at least a few images that illustrated the diversity).
I am still on noids, and my primary selection process was to pick flowers with colours/patterns that I didn't have before. Now I am hunting for different leaf types - turns out the grocery store ones are pretty close to one another in that respect. Which saves me some expense until I go to the AVSC show in spring...

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 12:50PM
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Linda

Joanne,

What kind words! It's nice to know I have a fan!! :) When I started growing, I just bought what I liked. I still have no favorite hybridizer or types although I do like the Russians very much. I favor the red blooms (red is my favorite color) and my favorite violet is and always has been 'Firebird'. It was one of the first I grew and if I could only have one violet that would be the one.

There is no problem with moving violets around. When they are grown at a window it is good to give them a quarter turn every few days so that they grow evenly. I move mine all the time to all areas of the house. No problem. The only time I wouldn't move a violet, or any other flowering plant, is when they are in bud. The change can cause bud blast which seems to be an association with humidity and or light and temperature. After the plant blooms there is little harm in moving them, in my experience.

I began at a time when Lyndon Lyon and the Tinaris ruled the violet world. It was always fun anticipating what new varieties they were going to introduce.

Your orchid sounds like its just time to be going out of flower. I have a Psychopsis mendenhall 'Hildos' that bloomed for three years on the same spike. The spike finally dried after this last bloom. Spectacular plant. And I have a Paphiopedilum rothschildianum that is in full bud. I'm excited about this one as it is a beauty. I'll try to get a picture to post.

Yes, I am a night owl. My family calls me The Vampire. It's early for me tonight to be posting. I just got in from a TSO concert. And an ice storm is on the way...Ahhh...winter.

Linda

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 1:21AM
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fortyseven_gw

Karin, You have found some lovely NOIDS. Although the one thing I did not like about the Optimaras is their plain foliage! So, once they stopped blooming, I would give them all away. Then a few months later, I would hear rave reports and be shown pix of all their blooms! Linda, Thanks for letting me know your favorite. Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 14:50

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 3:38AM
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froeschli

Five days isn't the end of the world, especially if you are prepared...
And this way, you'll be coming home to a welcoming committee :-)
I didn't see my violets for longer than that, and they all seem in good health, well, except for my little Hopi (not) which is looking a bit drab, I can't put my finger on what exactly is wrong with it, leaves are perky, no mould or deformation, but it just appears dull next to my other minis in the aerogarden... Ah well, we'll see what happens.
I finally got my light setup now, so I can move all my standard av's away from the chilly window. - which is what I am putting the phone down to do now ;-)

Karin

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 11:19AM
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fortyseven_gw

Hi Karin,
My Little Hopi II (??) both look dull. I think that is just the way they look when not in bloom. Nothing special about the leaves. That is another reason I suspect mine are Optimara's, as in my experience, the leaves are not very ornamental.

If you do like minis, consider Rob's or Lyndon Lyon when you get ready to order from a grower, in the future. I have one from Rob's and one from Lyndon Lyon that look good when not in bloom, the leaves are prettier.

Joanne

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 11:37AM
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perle_de_or(Zone 7)

My Marie Lorraine came into bloom and its true, the blooms are really gorgeous with a unique shape. It took a year from leaf, but worth the wait. The picture does not do it justice.
About Optimara foliage, I have found that when I propagate from leaf, the foliage is much prettier than the plants bought from the store. And even the store bought ones will develop prettier foliage after having them for a while, repotting, and gradually removing the older leaves.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 11:43AM
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fortyseven_gw

Hi,
What a beautiful photo, thanks for posting! It is probably difficult to capture the exact coloring in a photo. Also, thanks for letting us know how long it took to propagate from a leaf.

One of the interviews I posted is with the hybridizer, J. Eyerdom. I would like to find more of the family's cultivars. He is no longer continuing this business started by his parents.

Thanks for the tip about Optimara leaves! Something to look forward to!

Joanne

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 12:43PM
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froeschli

I find my optimaras (?) grow more of a serrated edge when left to grow on their own terms. Well, apart from the ones I didn't do too well with. But then, I just moved, nearly dried them, then soaked them and had 'em in a cool window sill for a week. Then moved them under two new fluorescent bulbs - They are not happy with me just now. We'll see how they do in a few weeks time :-) Hopi still doesn't look happy, the inner leaves are perky enough but are developing brown spots. I think it might have root rot (hope not) - I have been meaning to get some perlite and repot. The last few av's I bought have all been in a very moisture retaining medium - even though they were from different growers... And only the ones I got after moving are doing ok (they were never dry nor cold).

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 4:31PM
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irina_co(z5 CO)

Some clarification:

To register the violet you hybridized - you need to know the parents, you need to grow 3 generations so you are sure that it can be propagated vegetatively (unless you register a chimera) and you need to be a a member of AVSA. You fill the form on a special acid free paper with a description of a new form, pay $5 and send it to the registration person in AVSA.
If one or both of your parents are NOIDs - it won't work.
As you see - you need to have NAMED plants, not necessary registered.
The same is for Show - you show named plants - both registered and non -registered. the only requirement - if you show a collection - 3 minis, semis or standards - ALL violets should be registered. Collection is a very desirable class - because 2 best collections get a special ribbon from AVSA, and the collections are important for the grade of your show - the AVSA clubs Shows should meet certain standards and they are graded too. So your club or Council wants to have good collections.
The rest of the plants in a show can be non-registered - but all of them should be named.
Really - the plants we grow - they are all named - it just somebody on the line of owners between the hybridizer and the current one - lost the tag. And I am sure the hybridizer wants his baby to carry the name - not to be called - 'Hey- you - I am talking to you - with the purple top - can you pass me the salt?"
Why some of the plants are registered - and some are not - because it is a bother to go through the process - or the hybridizer thinks only the very best out of his need to be registered - on the other side - some enthusiastic new person makes a cross - and registeres a mediocre plant just out of desire to put his or her name on a list in Master class. But - it is no bother - the actual growers selection is very strict - and a mediocre plant probably will be grown between the family and friends - but won't see the limelight.

So - it is a free country and you love your plants with tags lost - just enjoy them. The plants do not care and will bloom their heads off for you if you treat them right.

But if you have named plants - keep the records and the labels in place - horse with no name - loses value. Plus it is very important to go to the shows - with or without actually showing anything - because it is where you learn from the best, you observe how the plants look at the top of their potential - and you strive to have yours look like this too.

Irina, second Monday in a row

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 4:35PM
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froeschli

So what's the requirement for a NAMED variety?

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 6:31PM
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irina_co(z5 CO)

Sorry - what kind of requirement are you asking about?
For the show - you can bring your named plant and show it - registered or not. If you want to show a collection - you avoid non-registered plants.

You get your plant hybridized - call it 'Karin's Delight' or "Warm Winter Underware' - and it is absolutely legit. You probably won't name the plant that looks like any one of Optimaras from Home Depot - there are so many run of the mill ones - you would like to name something special and different - but you still can do it - if you want.

There are very many lookalikes - but genetically they are slightly different - so "Karin's Delight" will be unique no matter what. If you do not plan to register it - you do not care ifthe parents were NOID, or it is a result of a thrips pollination. What you care - is it absolutely yours and you love it to give it your name.

You cannot take NOID from a shelf in HD and give it a name - it already has a name - the label never made it to you for whatever reasons - and that's why it can bloom its head off at home - but you won't be able to show it.

I.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 8:02PM
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froeschli

So you can register something that's a hybrid of two named varieties, and naming is fine if the parents are noids?
That means you could technically register the grandchildren of noids? Heck that gets complicated.... Not that a future as hybridizer is in my stars anyhow :-p

Btw, "Karin's delight" will be the first av with chocolate fragrance - I am going to make millions on it ;-)
now how to cross pollinate noid with toblerone....

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 10:31PM
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fortyseven_gw

Thanks for the in-depth clarification, Irina. The only way to get an Optimara with a name tag is to order it directly from Optimara's Selective Gardener website.

All of their cultivars are named, however, for mass markets, they do not include name tags.

That is why they provide their "Field Guide" for hobbyists to be able to i.d. their AV.

Joanne

This post was edited by fortyseven on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 14:55

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 11:43PM
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Linda

Irina,

What is the reason for registering on special acid-free paper?
I'm unsure of what you mean by 'actual grower's selection is very strict'?
Are we talking about the growers who grow for resale? Or grow for show-ers? Or hobbyists?

Joanne,

I'm sure you know that Eyerdom was the family who owned Granger Gardens. They were here in Ohio and I visited there many years ago. From what I understand, they were another victim of the rising energy costs and closed several years ago along with most of the other AV grower/hybridizers.

Linda

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 2:34AM
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fortyseven_gw

Hi Linda
It must have been fun to visit them. Most of what I know
about them I learned recently. They explained in their video that was the reason they had to close. They could not compete with commercial markets. Seems that there were more grower/hybridizers and more of a market for violets "back in the day." I am grateful for those growers who know try to keep their varieties going. I am sure there is a book or two to be written. Joanne

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 4:30AM
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irina_co(z5 CO)

OK - "What is the reason for registering on special acid-free paper? " You call the AVSA registration - and they will send the special paper form you are supposed to fill your application on. The acid -free technology makes this paper extremely long lasting - and not crumbling and yellowing with age.

"actual grower's selection is very strict'? Are we talking about the growers who grow for resale? Or grow for show-ers? Or hobbyists?"

All of the above. All these people would have slightly different requirements - but they would like to have an attractive, symmetrical, easy to grow plant that performs reliably. So - if the amateur hybridizer will register just another blue - for the pleasure of seeing his or her name in a Master list - it won't be picked by any of the above mentioned growers. So it will go extinct. If it has all the qualities - except hard to grow - the grow for sale people will keep it as long as it is novelty - and drop it later when the novelty wears off.

The best hybridizers only release several select varieties a year - after raising hundreds and hundreds of seedlings.

Every year Jackson and Perkins releases a new rose variety. The selection ratio - 1:100 000.

irina

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 1:19PM
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fortyseven_gw

Funny, I wanted to ask about roses â¦
Joanne

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 12:05AM
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