Just wondered if anyone could enlighten me as to why Anthurium jenmanii is suddenly selling for hundreds of dollars per plant on eBay?
I was wondering the same thing. Is this somehow related to the interest from Indonesian buyers?
You nailed it. The Indonesians are driving the prices through the roof. Yesterday I received three emails from one guy in Indonesia. I answered each time with my stock email saying I don't sell plants and I don't ship to Asia. He sent the same request the 4th time with a "thank you" for confirming I will ship to Asia!
Some of the larger aroid sellers on eBay have been forced to refund money when they had inside the text they would not ship to Asia and someone in Indonesia paid a high price anyway. One told me in Miami at the aroid show they had also received bad feedback when they made the refund! One person over there bid, paid and instantly began to demand by email the seller place a call to Asia telling them when the plant would be shipped! And the offer clearly said "no shipments to Asia".
The situation has gotten bad. If you wish to buy this or other Anthurium species you are better off just finding one of the reliable sellers on the internet and buying direct. Forget eBay. When people over there are willing to pay $100,000 for a single plant the situation is only going to get worse. And it has already happened!
Here is a link that might be useful: The ExoticRainforest
It's crazy. It almost seems like the Nigerian Lottery scam people used to get spammed with--I wonder if these people are even sincere in their requests. I know some growers that get lots of these emails but they don't bother responding to them anymore.
I'm even getting a bunch of e-mails about seeds sent to the IAS. Not to mention my greenhouse website. I've been sending out a stock reply recently asking WHY all of a sudden there's this huge interest, and mostly get no response.
A few of the people I've corresponded with seem genuine, but they shut up after I've asked them WHY ... and a few seem a little on the shady side ... emphasizing the money aspect of things and requesting thousands of seeds.
The fact that they're requesting large quantities of a product ( aroid seeds ) which doesn't really exist commercially, is the major factor in making me question whether these people are for real... On the other hand, the sudden popularity on E-bay, combined with the large variety of different personalities I've corresponded with makes me think that the sudden popularity of bullate-leaved birdnest Anthuriums in Southeast Asia may have some basis in fact. Reasonably serious sounding people have contacted me searching for just a plant or two in order to do tissue culture.
In any case, it's definitely weird.
Here is a link that might be useful: Albert's Greenhouse
This is nothing but greed. Break it down. I had one guy send an email asking for 14 species of rare Anthurium, 1000 seed per species. 14,000 seeds! They seem to think we all just have yards filled with plants with spadices filled with seed! He offered $50 per 1000 seeds.
Work that out. Some of the plants he wanted (Anthurium regale) would be worth $35 for a small plant, likely more. I've given $135 for a descent sized one in the past.
But let's just say $20 per plant on average in 2 years. That a $280,000 return on a $700 investment at his offering price.
But, those guys over there are paying several hundred dollars per plant! So let's say he can get $100 per plant in 2 years, that $2,800,000 return on the $700 investment! And sometimes they are paying a lot more!
I sent the guy a note saying I'd find his seed for $450,000. I never heard a word. This is the link I send every single person who now asks for seeds.
Has anyone noticed that the Anthurium jenmanii auctions on eBay that had seeds included fetched the most while the ones without are very sluggish to increase in bidding amount?
Has anyone forcefully complained to eBay about this problem. It seams to me that they have just as much at stake here as anybody else?
They could easily filter out certain countries from even seeing auctions for certain items.
Now that's a good idea. Perhaps all should begin to send email to eBay complaining. I know at least two sellers that would be glad to get rid of the problem of having to give refunds after saying they won't ship to Asia.
I just put up this page. I've been meaning to do it anyway, it just seemed like a good time. Probably won't do a bit of good but I guarantee they'll find it in about 48 hours!
That Anthurium jenmanii on eBay went for $510! The cause of the high price was likely the fact the plant offered was about to produce a spathe and spadix. That price is at least 10 times what the plant was likely worth. I sure hope the buyer understands how to pollinate a spathe and spadix!
In the genus Anthurium there are several species which produce ripe fruit with viable seed without pollination. This phenomenon is known to botanists as the species being apomictic. But I have no confirmation whether or not Anthurium jenmanii is, or is not, apomictic.
But if it is not, and the buyer does not understand how to artificially pollinate the plant, he/she may have just spent a bunch of money on a common Anthurium. With the possibility it may not be apomictic, that buyer may be sorely disappointed when the specimen does not produce viable seeds! I hope he/she knows how to collect pollen and store it in a freezer.
Anthurium species are not always easily induced to produce seeds that will germinate. The production of an inflorescence on A. jenmanii is not uncommon in collections but there is no guarantee it will produce seeds.
If you never seen a huge Anthurium Jemani and all Foliage Anthurium you will unable to know it. Trust me!!
Yes! we are indonesian people do admire the beauty of that foliage anthurium. What's wrong with that?? Seems people arround the world laughing us!!! NO matter, as long as we really & trullyy enjoy it.
We all Indonesian anthurium lover care the plant very seriously. We also have many techniques to succesfull propagation by seeds. Last month I can sold 2100++ anthurium seedling from 2200 seeds that germinate very well. Have you ever did that??? All you can do just enjoy the Plant for your self!! Why don't share and learn how to save the world by loving the plant??? Because Anthurium needs to shade... More Anthurim to be planting.. More shade plant to be growing.. More Oxygen you can breath!!
....understand how to artificially pollinate??? ha..ha..ha.. Seems you never did it. Most Our farmer & Nursery very skilfull doing this. I also disapointed with many botanical garden, since they have many mature Anthurium specimen but they cannot produced seeds. I supose the plant just for their self. Why...
Actually, I do share Anthurium with a lot of people. Close to 35,000 people each month log on to read what I've written about Anthurium species on my website. I don't think you can find a website with more information, scientifically verified, than on my site. And I do it for free. I do it because I love the plants and I love to share what I've learned and aroid botanists teach me. I don't attempt to make 10 cents off the plants. My site has many pages devoted on how to grow, propagate and protect Anthurium species. You don't have to sell thousands of these plants to share them.
Personally I am tired of receiving spamming emails, sometimes 10+ a day, from Indonesions that I don't know who have seen plants like Anthurium regale, Anthurium superbum, Anthurium wolfordii and Anthurium reflexinervium on my Gardenweb trade/plant inventory page, asking me to sell my plants or sell seeds. I am not a plant seller. I am a private grower/collector. My collection is not for sale. STOP EMAILING ME.
Do I ever wish you luck on that one! I've got four notices on my homepage I DO NOT sell plants or seeds. And still the requests come every single day! One is directly next to my email address! I explain on several pages why you can't possibly buy 10,000 seeds of any species. And still, the requests come every day. I explain why the seeds don't have a long viability, and still some think we can just go into the garden and gather up 10,000 seeds on any given day. Makes you want to take down your entire website!
Here is a good source to find honest advice on where to find these species. Anyone can use it and it is free.
Here is a link that might be useful: Aroid l, The International Aroid Society
I am a collector of Anthurium, Philodendron and a few Alocasia here in the UK and the Anth.Jenmanii is by far over-priced because this plant is readily available in the US, how else do they manage to offer one mature plant on ebay after the other, hasnt anybody figured that out yet!!!, (rare plant, only 40,000 left!!!) contradiction in terms i think!!!!, Why are all of these people who keep buying them so stupid.
Well, I can't repeat what you said, but believe me, I understand! Many growers are now running out since the demand has been so high. But up until 6 months ago you could easily buy Anthurium jenmanii for $20. I can't fault any dealer who is offered some astronomical price for a common species though. If I had them to sell, AND I DON'T, I'd gladly take the huge prices. But you are absolutely right. If you look at eBay, the same exact sellers offer another plant each week! And the prices just keep climbing. I do not know this as a fact, but I'd suspect there is an ample supply in Hawaii. In fact, one friend who lives there implied there were plenty to buy if you knew where to look. I received several personal emails from people in Indonesia who said the local "plant mafia" )their term, not mine) had convinced everyone in Indonesia A. jenmanii was extremely rare. One actually was reported to sell for $100,000! Go figure!
The same craze has swept that country with other genus and once the "mafia" types run out of plants to sell, or the price drops, they start a new "rare plant" craze. Someone is obviously making a lot of cash! But as long as the general public is willing to fight over them, even knowing another one will be up for sale in 7 days, this will continue! My fear is that someone will actually be able to buy a large quantity of seeds and in a year or so flood the US market with plants at 99 cents each! Growers in India are now doing just that with ornamental Anthurium and it is hurting the Hawaiian market. Just look on the Internet. You'll find all sorts of articles about how to grow and sell Anthurium if you live in India! It has happened before! And when that happens, the good US growers will suffer. And Anthurium jenmanii will become as common as the formerly rare Anthurium veitchii. You can now buy a near full grown A. veitchii from some dealers for just over $10 due to excess tissue culture! Four years ago one would easily cost $100!
I am not certain why you are so concerned about the Indonesians "flooding the market" and dropping prices. There is seemingly no danger of that happening, when Tissue Culture labs here in the US can do the exact same thing, and WILL do it if they know that there is a demand.
An acquaintance of mine in South FL who is a rather famous palm grower (and also has an extreme interest in other tropical plants...I won't name him without his knowledge as I am not a name dropper like some folks I have noted here) told me that he very recently had some visitors from Thailand who came through on their way home to Thailand from an orchid conference and stayed at his place. They discussed the Anthurium situation, and the crux of the matter is nothing so nefarious as a "plant mafia"...its that all of the anthuriums in question (especially Superbum) were in tissue culture here in the US, and for a long while easily obtainable for dirt cheap prices, but some of the production on some of them has been discontinued. What was once a commodity has become rare again, as there are no plants in the wild to collect, and seed grown plants take so long to get a viable size to take to market.
The Indonesians (and particularly the Thai's) use Anthurium superbum (and other more unusual anthuriums) in breeding programs on a large scale not only to reproduce them, but to develop hybrids. Now that they can no longer get a steady supply of TC plants, they are resorting to trying to buy large mature plants, at any cost, to further these programs.
So when you say in some of your posts, ExoticRainforest, that no anthuriums are native to Indonesia, you may be correct, BUT it has for years been one of the major "breeding grounds" for Aroids of all types using plants that have been imported from elsewhere.
Apparently, efforts are in progress right now to resume TC of some of these Anthuriums, especially superbum, here in the US, but these are not ready to be released yet and apparently some problems have been encountered with this endeavor. So it may be a while. But, eventually, the market will be flooded, not with seed grown plants from overseas, but with TC plants produced right here in this country, and you will once again be able to get these "rare" plants for $20 or less. SO anyone who really wants one, just sit tight. The opportunity will come again.
I am not the only one who is concerned about the environmental damage done by the likelihood of Anthurium being introduced into SE Asia. But that is another subject.
The Anthurium trade in India is now beginning to damage the Anthurium industry in Hawaii. Just check with any good grower in Hawaii. But these guys that want "10,000 seeds" of any single species cannot possibly sell all those plants over there were they to be able to find them. The tissue culture trade has already done damage to US growers by dropping the price on rarer species to a point it is no longer worth growing them. These are tiny industries and the impact of a huge influx of plants is detrimental to their survival. Just check with some of the larger growers in Homestead. They are now selling near full grown Anthurium veitchii for just over $10. Why? No one wants them! Why? Although that is a beautiful plant it makes a lousy houseplant. To grow it successfully you need a tropical environment or a greenhouse. The TC industry figured everyone would want one. They don't! So now there is an excess and a major price drop.
So what do you think will happen with all those "10,000 seeds" when they run out of people to sell them to in Indonesia? They will look for a market. And the market will be selling them in the United States, at least for a while. That will damage the businesses of people I know in South Florida. The people who wish to buy all these seeds in Indonesia have not done their homework on these plants. They just smell large sums of cash!
You just can't get enough viable seeds at any one time to do what they want to do. But as resourceful as they are, they will figure out a way. And the good growers in Florida will be the ones to pay the price. And that is why I am concerned!
I have A. jenmanii, A. superbum and others that I use in my aroid breeding programs right here in the good ol' US of A, and I'm not shipping or selling any of my plants to the Far East.
Why? Well, first reason is the strict CITES regulations and "biodiversity" restrictions that effectively prevent us here from getting new and interesting plants we might want to use, plants that are common in the Far East but very rare here. If they want free access to our plant material, then it should be quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned.
Second reason is that if Anthurium are not native to the Far East, then encouraging the export of these plants there is not in the best interest of those tropical ecosystems. For example, while no one intentionally imports or exports a pathogen, there is no way to be absolutely certain that some strain of Erwinia or Pythium won't hitch a ride on a mature plant from the US and cause an outbreak (or even an extinction) over there among native plants that don't have the resistance to it. Erwinia, for one, is systemic, meaning no amount of fumigation or chemical treatment can eliminate it from the plant. It can be dormant, hidden within a seemingly healthy plant, then suddenly flare up when conditions are just right.
So as tempting as the momentary big payoff might seem, I think it best that we keep our plants here and work with them here. At some point sterile TC material is bound to end up there if it hasn't already, but species plants grown from seed play a vital role in the preservation of germ plasm, far more so than 1000s of TC clones of one plant.
Excellent input! Thanks!!
Just one follow-up regarding tissue cultured specimens. For years many of us believed there was no difference in a seed grown specimen and a tissue cultured specimen. New information, some of which will soon be published, now indicates the tissue culture process may actually stunt the growth of many species. It may also vary the species so the TC specimen is not quite like a natural specimen.
A couple of good examples are Philodendron xanadu and Philodendron gloriosum. P. xanadu has now been discovered, or it is so believed, in Brazil. For many years people have claimed Philodendron xanadu originated in Australia. Sorry, not so. Just like Anthurium species, there are no natural Philodendron species outside Mexico, Central America, South America and the West Indies. The leaves of the wild specimen are much larger than the tissue cultured specimens everyone has been buying for years. But the species appears to be one and the same. It is now believed by the botanical authorities doing the research the tissue culture process causes the smaller leaves. It is assumed the same is true with Philodendron gloriosum and others. Botanical garden stock taken from wild collected specimens consistently grows much larger than specimens grown from tissue cultured plants.
I once proposed Philodendron spiritus-sancti, the extremely rare Philodendron from Brazil be tissue cultured so more people could preserve the plant. There are now only 6 known specimens in the wild. Numerous authorities pointed out the potential damage to the TC plants thus making them less desirable and unsuitable for reintroduction into the wild. As a result, I've withdrawn my efforts to have that plant put into tissue culture. Besides, there is the distinct possibility the process could kill the only adult specimen known to exist in South Florida which is owned and maintained by the International Aroid Society.
So, you may certainly wait until your favorite aroid is produced in tissue culture and buy one inexpensively. Nothing wrong with that. But it is unlikely you will ever see the same growth as a specimen which is a descendant of a wild plant. The work on this will hopefully be made more publicly known soon.
Should you doubt my information indicating Philodendron and Anthurium do not grow outside the regions I described, please refer to the paper below by Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden.
Here is a link that might be useful: Abstract by Dr. Thomas B. Croat
A couple of points that have been driving me crazy, and this is certainly not meant to offend anyone's views.....
How could there by any danger of someone sending 10,000 seeds to Asia and thereby flooding the market, if no one has 10,000 seeds to send?
In particular, no one grows the "Fab Four" (superbum,reflexinervium, willifordii, or jenmanii) in Florida in any wholesale quantities simply because the first three don't grow very well here for landscape, and Jenmanii (Guyanum) was never very popular here.
If there was suddenly an over population of these Anthuriums in Asia, no one here would buy them.
Many of us have a couple in our collections, and most are great for hybridizing, they are great looking plants.
I find it hard to believe that sending plants to Asia, would destroy the market here, since there isn't one.....
As Bihai pointed out, we can destroy our own market quite nicely here by ourselves with TC.
Most of us have imported non-native plants from Asia at one time or another.
I'm sure that the Anthuriums going to Asia are being kept in shadehouse or greenhouse conditions. No one spends 1,000's for an Anthurium only to plant it out back behind the garage.
Point well made. And well taken. You know far more about what and what does not sell than anyone I know other than Denis. My points were taken from a barage of email received from a bunch of people but in the future I'll respond with your points as well. And for sure, no one has, or can get, 10,000 seeds of any Anthurium! But if they find them somehow I guess they'll have to create a market for them in Thailand!! And I'm sure they will.
The Fab Four...I like that. I have 3 of the 4. My willifordii is blooming now. Its Fab, to be certain. I think I have John, Paul and George. Ringo (jenmanii) I don't have.
Enid is right. The folks who have these plants here in the US are private growers and collectors. I believe that my reflexinervium is probably a TC plant. I know Ecuagenera does TC. But I also know that my Superbum and willifordii are NOT. These are years old and were seedlings from a private grower long before superbum hit the TC market.
I think some of these seed seeking folks have gotten the point. They aren't emailing me as frequently now, so I guess I won't take my plant inventory off the Gweb site like I was ocnsidering. I'd absolutely hate to have to retype those couple thousand entries into a word doc.
Its just really, really WEIRD to think of someone buying a couple of plants that I go out and look at every day for $300-3000. I guess if I was really hurting for dollars, I could sell mine for a nice sum, but what's the point? I'd only blow the money on new tattoos. Besides, I don't run a nursery anymore.
You're luckier than I am! I had two email requests from Indonesia when I got up this morning. And one was from the same guy I told yesterday I don't sell seeds!
I was caught by surprise with the quote above that Ecuagenera does aroid tissue culture. I had never heard that before. I often deal with Dr. Ron Kaufmann who has spent a great deal of time at their various nurseries in Ecuador and often imports aroids from Ecuagenera. I've bought quite a few through Ron. So I sent him a note asking that he to clarify if this is correct. This is Ron's email answer, "Ecuagenera has never, to my knowledge, tissue cultured any aroids of any kind for any reason. I've been in their nurseries (all of them) on multiple occasions and never seen anything that looked like or could conceivably have been TC aroids. They've raised some plants from seed in large numbers, for example A. veitchii and A. warocqueanum, but none of those plants were tissue cultured. The only plants that they've attempted to TC are orchids, their main business."
No intent to start any form of an arguement. I just felt Ecuagenera themselves would want this clarified.
Ahhh, that explains the little ladies and gentlemen in sterile garb working like little worker bees in the photos on their website then.
And my "quote" was NOT that Ecuagenera does AROID TC. I simply said that "I know Ecuagenera does TC" (and I was correct, they do.) I said that I "believed" that my reflexinervium was "probably" a TC plant. I did not state it as fact. Sorry it put you into such a tizzy you felt you had to call out the troops. My my!
I am glad to know that my reflexinervium is a seed grown plant. I knew my Anthurium regales (I was given three HUGE ones from Ecuagenera, as a gift from a very loving friend) were stem cuttings, the stems were the size of summer sausages!
Are we sure that all of these 'Jenmanii being offered on Ebay are, infact, Anth. Jenmanii?. Or are some naughty ebay sellers in the US selling any old birdsnest Anth as a jenmanii to these Indonesians who cant tell the difference having no real interest in plants, only fast cash from seeds. (easy Pray me thinks).
Please don't shoot me for this! But that last question is truly an interesting one! This is an email from Dr. Tom Croat, America's top aroid botanist at the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis.
There has not been anything published since I published my revision of Anthurium sect. Pachyneurium in the Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 78(3): 539-855.1991. The attractive, coriaciaceous bird's nest sometimes called "jenmanii" sometimes A. bonplandii guayanum, sometimes as A. guayanum had the young leave reddish on the lower surface when young. I treated this as Anthurium bonplandii ssp. guyanum but it might just as easily be considered a distinct species as was treated by George Bunting. It is just that there is so much variation in all of those taxa that I could not find clear separation in them. Certainly this plant did not have anything really in common with A. jenmannii, a species which has a spathe that soon withers and falls off.
Dr Tom Croat, Missouri Botanical Garden
The email was not sent to me but was forwarded to me by Denis Rotolante at Silver Krome Gardens in Miami. Dr. Croat sent the message to Denis.
In case you don't understand, Dr. Croat is saying the plant with the purple/red leaf is not Anthurium jenmanii as everyone now thinks. The plant that produces the purple/red leaf is actually Anthurium bonplandii subsp. guyanum. So what does that mean? It just means you need to change the tag on your plant if you have the Anthurium from the Guiana Shield that produces the new leaf that is purple. The mistake apparently happened as a result of a plant photograph taken at an International aroid Show in Miami of a plant with a bad name tag. That bad name has stuck. But according to Dr. Croat, the plant with the purple/red leaf is not Anthurium jenamanii as everyone seems to think.
Here is a link that might be useful: Anthurium bonplandii subsp. guyanum
Steve, regarding "For many years people have claimed Philodendron xanadu originated in Australia." When it is said that it originated in Australia, I don't think it was meant as "found growing there", but as a "horticultural selection". Perhaps what was found in Brazil is a similar sport.
Here is a link that might be useful: Xanadu
Since Julius published his papers many websites have modified their posts. One major US newspaper ran an article that clearly stated Philodendron xanadu was found in the rainforest of Western Australia. Stokes Tropicals still says the plant is "native" to Australia. If you go back through some of the older internet posts you'll find the claim the plant was "found" in the rain forests of western Australia. But it does appear much of that information is now being modified. The original patent never said where the plant was found, it apparently left the subject to be somewhat vague. Sorry we're off on a different thread here.
Anthurium trend is come to an end in Indonesia, and it's followed by the trend of the other plants (sansevieria, aglaonema). Indonesia is jus like heaven for ornamental horticulture of the world. Even Thailand's ornamental horticulture industries survival is determined with Indonesian market. I jus still can't wonderin anthurium price hikes to the moon last several year. Everyone is seemingly wake up to their dream and realize that the price was very unreasonable. The price record for anthurium jenmanii hybrid is about US$ 30.000 more. Some people is suddenly becoming millionaire now from anthos. Actually anthurium is distributed in Indonesia for long time ago about 10 century ago. So for some Indonesian people anthurium is not so strange, even almost 80% of people in Indonesia growth anthurium in their garden, such as crystalinum and plowmanii. For me myself collecting anthurium is not a matter of economic business. I enjoy to appreciate God creature that "called" anthurium, no matter where the trend blows. And i join for the aroid contest sometimes, and i enjoy it very much.This time I already collected The Fab Pachynerium: A.reflexinervium, A.superbum, A willifordii, A. oxcycarpum and some quilted heart: radicans x dressleri, luxurians, radicans & cardiolonochium: regale, magnificum, ace of spade, crystalinum, and the rarest one : A. moonenii also several philos like :P. billitiae and P atabapoense. Here in Indonesia i can find almost every species of rare anthurium and philodendron, except p spiritus sancti and a rugulosum. Im so gratefull to knowing that anthurium hobbyst and collector is spread almost round the world, and also i wanna say thanks to all collectors and experts in US and South America for their valuable information bout aroid in internet :p