Coquette des Blanches in Temperate Areas? (Especially Jeri)

ArbutusOmnedo 10/24August 13, 2014

Hi everybody!

My mom added a Coquette des Blanches to an order I received from Burling a few weeks ago. I mentioned it is a "sibling" of Boule de Neige with a bit more blush and she looked it up on HMF. That was enough. I know Jeri has suggested that it needs more winter chill to bloom than is offered in this area.

Did you grow an own-root plant of CdB, Jeri? If the plant was grafted onto multiflora from a Canadian nursery, do you think that could have had an impact on that problem? How would you describe the habit of the plant you grew?

I've been mulling over the issues with CdB while trying to find a long term spot for it in her yard that won't be wasted on a rose that may live, but not flower much. I think it is beautiful rose, but I doubt it's such a beautiful shrub that it's worth growing without consistent blooms.

Has anyone else in a temperate area with no frost tried CdB? Any success? It's been growing admirably in a two gallon container so far. No mildew yet. A Baron Girod de l'Ain I got as a fun "experiment" had a tiny bit of mildew on it for the first time today since arriving about three and half weeks ago.

Thanks for your input!

Jay

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
alameda/zone 8

I bought one some years ago from Home Depot. It has made a nice sized shrub - blooms well in the spring, not so much in our hot Texas summers. I can probably expect blooms in the fall - cant remember what it did last year. It is in full sun most of the day and hangs in there quite well.
Judith

    Bookmark   August 13, 2014 at 1:24AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Wow, I would snatch up anything like a Coquette des Blanches if I found it at a Home Depot. Lady Banks and Cecile Brunner are the only "older" roses I've found there.

How big is nice sized, Judith? Would you say the plant habit is similar to Boule de Neige? Is it taller/wider/vase shaped/lax caned/et cet.? That's good to know it can take your Texas sun. Thanks!

Jay

    Bookmark   August 13, 2014 at 11:53PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
alameda/zone 8

I got this rose at least 5 or more years ago. Never have seen any old gardens offered there since except a Therese Bugnet in a body bag this spring - which is growing well near Cornelia.

CdeB is a rather ungainly shrub, not thick. Could be because it is in all day sun.....and I keep thinking it will thicken up as it ages. Don't know what Boule de Neige looks like so cant compare. Canes are not thick but substantial enough. Blooms aren't huge, but pretty. I don't find it as attractive as Souvenir de la Malmaison, but I like it well enough - and appreciate the fact that as a Home Depot rose, and an unusual find at that, that it has continued to thrive here in Texas. I am going [hopefully tomorrow] to add some of my aged horse compost mulch to all those roses on the front fenceline again and water thoroughly - give them more root protection from the heat.
Judith

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 12:45AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerijen(Zone 10)

Jay -- We grew Coquette des Blanches for about 6 years.

In year 5 (2007, I think), we had an unusually cold winter. Cold enough to kill several well-establishe plumerias, and burn back all of the neighborhood Bougainvilleas.

THAT year, CdB put up one remarkably lovely spray, which I photographed for posterity. (See below)

The next year, we had our normal winter weather. It never bloomed again, and is gone. (But I can say -- it didn't rust or mildew.)

Jeri

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 2:01PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Jeri-

Given your experience in a very similar climate, I'll be sure to not disbud it should she be so lucky as to get any. I'll also give it a place somewhere out of the way that can be given up to something better or different down the line. Possibly a Caprenteria californica. I certainly hope my mother has a different take on CdB in a few years, but I've mentioned it could be out of its comfort zone here. Expectations aren't too high.

On the other hand, BdN continues to be great for me.

Jay

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 2:27PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerijen(Zone 10)

Blush Noisette is a winner. I love it, and all of its odd found sports and seedlings.

Now, if only you could find a pink 'un, and a yaller 'un, and a red 'un . . . :-)

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 3:57PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerijen(Zone 10)

OH ... Boule de Niege, you meant!

Yes. THAT is a terrific rose. And it doesn't seem to at all mind our mild climate. Disease-resistant, too!

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 5:29PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I don't know if it falls under that branch of sports and seedlings of BN, but I did just order Narrow Water for the Obelisk I had asked about. I'll also be ordering a Reve d'Or from Burling sometime soon for a spot until recently occupied by a vicious Bouganvilla.

The Pickering news coupled with Vintage's closure has spurred me to acquire some varieties I'd regret not having tried if they are to go out of commerce.

Jay

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 1:35AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerijen(Zone 10)

It's truly scary.

I've found, though, that the Heritage Roses Group Facebook page brings in a steady trickle of people who have found older roses in the gardens they moved into -- and want to know more about them.

That, at least, gives me some hope for the future.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 12:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

It may not be perfect, but a bloom did come on CdB. I knew I should photograph it if it is indeed one of the few or only bloom that the plant should ever produce. The scent was similar to, but spicier than Boule de Neige. Very lovely on the whole.

Jay

    Bookmark   October 31, 2014 at 10:15PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ingrid_vc(Z10 SoCal)

Jay, are you sure this is CdB? It looks very different from the one I had briefly and the one I saw in a rose lover's garden who lives not as far inland. Both looked exactly like Jeri's picture, while yours is more pink and almost modern-looking. When it opens all the way I think you'll be better able to make a judgment.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 11:49AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerijen(Zone 10)

Maybe because the weather has turned colder? Maybe because the plant is immature?

It does not look like the rose we had.

Jeri

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 1:21PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nastarana(5a)

I had another of the sisters from the same cross, Mme. Francois Pittet, in CA., where it grew very well, stayed at about 4' tall, and produced flowers spring, fall and a few in summer. Any rose produces larger flowers when moisture increases, but with Mme. FP, the difference was startling. In dry conditions, the flowers were pretty little doubles similar to polyanthas. After a good rain in autumn, all of a sudden, I was seeing large petals like those on St. de St. Anne.

I had another of the same lineage, Marie Delmar, in NY. It did not survive its first winter, despite protection but had NO blackspot at all, even into fall. Breeders looking for BS resistance and hardiness might want to work with this group. One parent, Sappho, was said to be a Damask Perpetual, so the group should have some hardiness already. Mike Lowe was growing some of the group in Vermont; I think I heard he made some kind of elaborate structure to put over his more tender roses for winter.

Like many of the Damask Perpetuals, roses from the Mlle. Blanche Lafitte X Sappho crossing seem to be challenging to get started, but are very satisfactory garden plants once established,

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 2:00PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I have no reason to think it isn't, but I have never seen another CdB in person. This is a young plant in a two gallon container so I could definitely see maturity playing a role in the size of the bloom and temperature in the color.

The scent didn't strike me as modern rose at all, and the foliage is extremely reminiscent of Boule de Neige which I grow. No disease, but less vigorous to start than BdN. This CdB, or whatever it is, was from Burling. If she has the wrong variety listed as CdB that would explain any strangeness, but I had no prior suspicion that this isn't what I expected.

Jay

    Bookmark   November 1, 2014 at 3:26PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nastarana(5a)

Jay, I noticed a lot of seasonal variation in flower size and form in my Mme. FP(another sibling from the same cross) so I would think likely your rose might not be misnamed.

Another possibility is that what you have is yet another sibling, which I think is named Baronne Maynard. That name was to be found on the old Sequoia supplemental list. When I ordered it about a year or so before Sequoia closed, I unfortunately got another rose instead, so I have never seen BM.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 7:05PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I doubt it's the wrong rose, but that is a possibility, nastarana. I assume Burling drew from quite a few of Sequoia's roses when she started her own nursery.

There are several photos of Coquette des Blanches on HMF that are quite similar to the bloom I captured. The one linked is particularly similar. It may have just bloomed pinker because it was cooler and with fewer petals due to immaturity. Time will tell. It's not a big deal either. If there are strange qualities to future blooms I may ask Burling about where she got her plant.

Jay

Here is a link that might be useful: Similar Bloom of Coquette des Blanches

    Bookmark   November 3, 2014 at 12:16AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Just as an aside, you're not in a "temperate area" if you don't receive frost. I know many people think of "temperate area" or "temperate climate" to mean "mild", but that's not exactly what it means. The Earth has four major climate regions -- Tropical, Sub-Tropical, Temperate and Polar. If you don't get frost, you're really Sub-Tropical. But I see this usage of "temperate" a lot, so you're not alone. The title of this thread had me scratching my head -- I thought it was about cold-hardiness, but the OP was asking for Jeri's advice.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: List of locations with a subtropical climate

    Bookmark   November 3, 2014 at 9:40AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

I definitely had the sense of "mild" or "experiencing a narrow range of temperatures" in mind when using temperate. I suppose I commonly refer to the climate here in Santa Monica as temperate, mild, or simply Mediterannean as opposed to "Sub-Tropical", whereas I consider most places that truly fall in a "Temperate Climate" to be far from mild.

I'll be a bit more specific in future posts. "Frostless" might have been a bit better than "temperate."

Jay

    Bookmark   November 3, 2014 at 4:19PM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
Any ID ideas on this old Sonoma Mission rose?
This rose is a low bush (to 80 cm) growing under a...
dkelch
close cousins of Belinda's Dream?
BD looks like a great landcaping/cutting rose, but...
Adam Harbeck
Old estate climber needs ID
This is a climbing rose that clambers to 15 feet over...
dkelch
Please help me identify this rose?
This rose blooms only once a year in the spring. My...
linjon zone 5
Aphids have found my roses...
I guess you never find just one aphid... I just spent...
vmr423
People viewed this after searching for:
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™