jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)August 1, 2007

You commented that you found Tantau roses better than Kordes. What a blow!

Anyway I planted 4 this year and they are proving to be very good. Fontaine, Bernstein Rose, Rokoko and Santana. The first two are blooming well already and look to be keepers.

So I'm wondering which ones you grow and like? Oh in checking Hortico's list I found the following interesting: Goldstern, Ingrid Weibell, Marie Antoinette, Polarstern, Lawinia, Aspirin Rose and Lubecker Rotspon.

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I am so impressed with some of the Tantau Roses. If they in general are better than Kordes is maybe saying too much. Kordes is bigger and produces more roses and have more introductions each year. But the foliage on Fx roses like "Romanze" is the best I have ever seen. If there ever was such a thing as a 100 percent disease resistant rose this must be it. I am also very impressed with "Gartenträume". It looks like and old garden rose or Austin and is very healthy and among one of the most fragrant roses in the world. Look out for this rose!! Also Senteur Royale looks very promising, lavender/violet roses with a unbelievable strong scent and looks very healthy too. Also some of the Hybrid Teas are amazing. "Nostalgie" health and vigor ... so much better and more beautiful than Double Delight and just as fragrant. Many already know the vigor of the red HT Taboo from Tantau. Is is one the most hardy HTs. "Bernstein" has for many years been a very popular dark yellow/amber floribunda (i always think of it as a darker version of sunsprite. "Santana" is a very popular largeflowered red climber in spite of it having very little scent. Lawinia is also becoming more and more popular another low climber. "Aspirin" is a little white very healthy polyantha rose that is becoming more and more popular as a landscape rose, because of its clean white roses and it is always in bloom. "Goldstern" has been the yellow large flowered low climber of choice for years here on the continent. I did not even know that "Ingrid Weibull" was a Tantau rose ..this red floribunda is a regular flowermachine! And was many years one of the most planted roses here in Europe in spite of it beeing scentless. (Here in Denmark now probably replaced by H.C. Andersen). "Polarstern" among the best ever white HTs. Silver Anniversary/Karen Blixen is probably the best ever... not much scent though. I also grow the red Tantau HT "Erotika" ... red vigorous and bush HT with a very good strong fragrance. I have also seen the new rose "Chippendale" well the colour does look like skin with too much selftanning lotion and it seems very healthy and is very fragrant. This year I am going to order some of the new Tantau rose: Askot.
One of the most beautiful dark red/ purple roses I seen. Amazing shape/colour and health. And will probably become just as popular as any Austin rose.

When you look out for these german roses the ADR nomination of a rose is a very good sign. Roses that are ADR have really good hardiness and health in many testgardens all over Germany (in many different climatezones). It has been discussed before here on Gardenweb:

Both Kordes and Tantau Roses lists What Roses that has gotten the ADR label on their websites.

Here is a link that might be useful: GW ADR roses

    Bookmark   August 1, 2007 at 5:33PM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

Thanks so much. It is now full speed ahead with Tantau's. Sorry Wilhelm! Well I won't totally forget them but it is nice to have another breeder to rely on.

    Bookmark   August 1, 2007 at 9:15PM
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I've read your praises of the roses above, and I'm keenly interested in roses that are disease resistant (especially to blackspot) in a no spray garden. What can be grown well no spray in many parts of the world, however, does NOT always do well in my particular part of the world because of the high heat and high humidity and particularly nasty strains of blackspot, apparently. Can you tell me how your other roses do against blackspot in a no spray situation? That is, is blackspot a big problem for you? I'm interested in finding those roses that will be healthiest for my situation.


    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 5:19AM
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What can you tell me about the new Tantau roses in the Nostalgie series? You mentioned Chippendale but I would be interested in Albrecht Durer,
Grafin von Hardenberg, Barock and Augusta Louisa for starters. Do they have such a strong perfume as the Tantau catalog claims them to have? Are they blackspot resistant? Did you see and smell these roses?

Most have a good rating as to mildew but not such a high rating re blackspot resistance  compared to the new Kordes roses that are indeed very blackspot resistant and excellent bloomers but somehow lacking in strong fragrance (they may be better in their second year though).

Any feedback would be appreciated on these Tantau roses.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 1:28PM
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Romanze has become popular here to, very healthy and free flowering. If blackspot resistance is first priority I would recomed checking out how Jacqes Cartier does in your area. It is one of the healthiest of the old roses, and with rebloom.

Blackspot can be a big problem where I live but there are some bullit proof roses; Astrid Lindgren (Dream Sequence) has a reputation for beeing exeptionally healthy and continuous flowering until late in automn, unfortunately little fragrance. Well worth checking out!

Allmost as healthy as Astrid Lindgren is the Kordes rose Westerland, very good remontancy and good fragrance.

Other very healthy roses are Bonica 82 and Lichtkönigin Lucia, both Kordes I think.

There is a Tantau shrub Candlelight (2001) that looks very promising. Lots of good fragrance and exeptionaly healthy, keeps flowering until frost puts a stop for the season. Looks like something between a Hybrid Tea and an Austin rose.

Here the Kordes climber Sympathie is very popular, much like Tantau's Santana, but grows taller.

I tend to compromise on blackspot resistance, I want fragrance and all types of roses. This year the hybrid perpetuals have been very good.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 1:41PM
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Bonica is a Meilland rose but LL is Kordes.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 2:08PM
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I've been growing the Hybrid Tea Wimi by Tantau and love it so far.

The foliage is perfect, and it's been healthy and vigorous with striking blooms and lovely fragrance.

It looks like it has the makings of a great garden rose.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 2:38PM
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palustris(Z6 MA)

I've only got two Tantau roses but they are both excellent. 'City of York' is a large flowered climber with beautiful shiny green foliage that stays disease free all summer. The flowers are semidouble and a very light yellow that fades to white. It can get very large over time and covers itself in June for a long bloom period. There is no repeat with the exception of a few flowers here and there.

'Marchenland' seems to be one of those forgotten roses that is definitely worth growing. Mine is about 5 years old and has made a nice 4' - 5' shrub. It is growing in dry sandy soil with only about 4 - 5 hours of sun. Despite this, it is a healthy and vigorous rose. It does not repeat for me but maybe one day I will plant one in full sun with good soil.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 5:40PM
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shellfleur(z7a Long Island, NY)

I like this thread. I'm not at all familiar with Tantau Roses. It's interesting to learn about different roses and research them.

Krista, I've looked at the HT Wimi and it's beautiful and Rogue Valley has it in stock. Would you please tell me more about it? Bloom size, repeat, scent, growth habit, all that stuff. Thanks, Shelley

    Bookmark   August 2, 2007 at 9:39PM
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I have two Wimis, one from Hortico, and one from Rogue Vally Roses. Both are one year old plants. They'll probably mature to about 2 or 2 1/2 feet tall, which is about what the Hybrid Teas reach in this area. Growth is upright and narrow.

The foliage is really dark and healthy, and the blooms are nicely presented on the plant. The blooms are large, about 4 inches across.

They are young plants, but showing signs of good repeating.

The fragrance is a sweet Tea Rose scent, (not citrusy).

Here's a pic:

    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 9:11AM
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shellfleur(z7a Long Island, NY)

Krista, thanks for the info on Wimi. Shelley

    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 9:29AM
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steelrose(z9 SF Bay CA)

As a lover of dark reds, I adore my Deep Secret (Tantau).


    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 3:32PM
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Ceterum: Chippendale is really remarkable! Healthy and very fragrant. Tantau roses do not hype their roses if they claim a rose is very fragrant is indeed very fragrant!

We often see the new introduction at "Rose-shows" at local gardencentres, when they have rose-days. Then we can see the new introduction as blooming container plants and sometimes in huge arrangements with hundreds of cut flowers from that particular cultivar. So one do gets an impression of which roses that is going to be interesting as one can see the colour, bloomsshape and smell the fragrance. In the long run one does of course only gets experience of how well a rose does after growing it at least 3 years. So far Chippendale looks disease resistant. I do not grow the other other roses you mention, and have only seen Grafin von Hardenberg. It is not BS resistant and it hates too much sunlight like some red HPs. It´s like the Austin Rose Fallstaff. So I will not recommend this rose, since I do not like myself.

Robert: What roses that will do well no spray is a hard question, since I do spray! But I do not spray "Romanze" and "Gartentraume" and the HT "Nostalgie". There is no need to spray these roses... since they are totally clean.
Eden Rose climber from Meilland and James Galway from Austin are also no spray roses in my experience. But like you said local circumstances does play a huge role as to BS resistance. I do see BS like the plaque in gardens here if they do not spray in our humid climate. (Humid...not hot)
I have found that BS is controllable even with my as little as possible spray regimen.( Fertilome systemic fungicide). While Powdery mildew is a constant nuisance here.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 3:40PM
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Colleen: then you are going to love this bouquet of Deep Secrets:

    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 4:00PM
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brandyray(Coastal NC/8a)

Well, now I know Deep Secret is going to be on my fall list! I will check out some of the others mentioned, thanks for the info. Brandy

    Bookmark   August 3, 2007 at 11:45PM
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steelrose(z9 SF Bay CA)

You're right--I love it.



    Bookmark   August 4, 2007 at 12:27AM
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I don't grow many Tantau roses. I do have a lot of the new Kordes roses and they have been very disease resistant over the few years I grow them. Especially this summer that was very rainy. However, I do grow Nostalgie from Tantau and from the very first day I have hated that rose! The flowers do not have a nice shape: the HT-form collapses on many flowers when the outer petals fall inwards and block the view into the heart of the rose. The inward fallen petals mostly become pink instead of red and it makes the whole flower look yuck. It does not have any fragrance to my nose, which is normally considered to be very good (my nose, not the rose). If Double Delight really is a very fragrant rose I bet Nostalgie can never be compared to it. Lastly, blackspot invaded the plant this summer so I finally threw it away last week.

So far my Tantau experience, LOL. Even though I should try more of the Tantau's before judging them, I believe the disease resistance of Kordes roses is much better than those from Tantau.

P.S. Lichtkonigin Lucia from Kordes defoliated about 75% this summer (no spray). Westerland is always BS free in my garden.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2007 at 7:23AM
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jim_w_ny(Zone 5a)

Well hearing about Lichtkonigin Lucia defoliating makes me feel better about the fact that my LL is totally failing. About 6" high.

I've been reading about the new K's and Laguna seems to be a real winner.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2007 at 8:27AM
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