Questions about OGRs and Austins in 6b/7a

maevesgarden(6b/7aPhiladelphia)August 29, 2010

Hi all,

I'll be planting several roses in my small Philadelphia yard next spring as I try to establish my garden, which is less than a year old. I would like to try a couple of Gallicas, specifically Rosa Mundi and Rosa Gallica Officianalis. My back yard is in an open northeastern exposure which gets full sun most of the day. The floribundas, polyanthas, and one HT I planted this past spring have done well. I am new to gardening in this zone, so I'd appreciate any feedback on how Gallicas perform here. Is there anything special I should know? Are those of you in this zone successful with Gallicas?

I'd also like to try an Austin or two...or another section of the same backyard. Since the garden is rather diminutive I'm looking for Austins which stay on the small side so they don't overwhelm the space. I'm considering Molineux and Jude the Obscure- are there others you can recommend? I have several pinks and whites already, so I'd like some yellows.

Also, my front yard is a challenge. It is a full southwestern exposure but canopied by large street sycamores

late spring through fall. From around October through early April it is full sun. I guess I would characterize it as dappled shade during most of the growing season. Would hybrid musks stand a chance in this front area? I am going a little rose crazy so if there's any possibility I can plant in the front yard as well, I would love to.

Thanks for your patience with this long post, and in advance for your help.


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Molineaux is a good rebloomer and has few disease problems here in Zone 6 Kansas. However, in eastern states, I think you may have to spray for blackspot. Other than that, it is an excellent choice.

Sorry, can't help you with the others.

Good luck,


    Bookmark   August 29, 2010 at 3:16PM
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Thanks Kate. I've definitely decided on Molineaux and I'm going to try the Gallicas. Still hoping for input on those and on hybrid musks that might do well here. -Maeve

    Bookmark   August 30, 2010 at 11:38AM
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palustris(Z6 MA)

Roses don't do very well in shade. You are better off with some other shrubs like azaleas or rhododendron.

Gallicas are wonderful roses and 'Rosa Mundi' is one of my favorites. Gallica roses sucker, so give them space to grow. Over time they will colonize a spot and that is part of their appeal. Mix them in with other perennials such as iris, daylilies, or catmint and let them work their way around the perennials. A spot colonized by Gallica roses makes a beautiful display.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2010 at 5:54PM
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Thanks, Palustris. I did not know that Gallicas will colonize. I'm really excited about Apothecary and Rosa Mundi and can't wait to get them in next spring.

Really - no hybrid musks will grow in partial shade? My front yard is crying :-(


    Bookmark   September 1, 2010 at 9:55PM
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Paul Zimmerman has a video post up over at You Tube about growing roses in less than full sun:

I enthusiastically recommend Paul's videos to you!

    Bookmark   September 1, 2010 at 10:05PM
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The situation Paul demonstrates in the video, dappled light under tall trees, is very similar to that of my front yard. However, he points out that dappled morning sun is better for roses than p.m. sun, which is what I have with a SW exposure there. So the prognosis does not look very positive I guess :-( However, I may take a chance and plant a hybrid musk in its pot as he demonstrates, just to see how it does. I could always move it to the backyard then if necessary.

Is there a particularly tolerant HM that might be a good bet to try?

Thanks very much for your recommendation, York Rose! I went on to watch several more of Paul Zimmerman's videos and found them interesting and helpful - particularly the one on pillar-training.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2010 at 7:28PM
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YouÂre from Philly, I am (was) from across the river in Cherry Hill.

IÂm relatively new to OGRs I have about 25 most are in their 1st season. Listed are oneÂs that IÂve had for at least 2 full seasons. Except as noted, none have any winter kill at all and look well with once per month spraying for BS:
Archduke Charles  a nice little rose, little being the operative word. I donÂt know how people get them to be big.
Souvenir de la Malmaison  healthy, vigorous.
Sombreuil, Climber  itÂs big. GetÂs BS (or what looks like it to me) but looks ok. ItÂs thorny, not for the faint-hearted.
Louis XIV Â short, a good little guy.
Cramoisi Superieur  hasnÂt done well for me, I keep hoping.
Frau Karl Druschki  has many good qualities, but good rebloom isnÂt one of them.
Field of the Woods  ItÂs done well for me, itÂs still hard to see behind James Galway but soon it will be big enough.

Austins I have a lot more experience. Currently I have
The Squire  up until recently an excellent shrub. ItÂs only drawback is it get more BS than I would like. ItÂs not done well the last 2 yrs, I canÂt figure out why.
The Dark Lady  spÂed this year, too much BS and in summer the red turns magenta. But it is a good bloomer.
James Galway  never any disease, minor winter kill, THORNLESS. The only negative (and that is subjective) is itÂs not a good rebloomer. It has a great spring display, this one is more OGR than modern.
Heritage  probably my favorite Austin and is thornless.
Crocus Rose  Most years gets BS but grows fast enough for it not to show. This year it didnÂt get any despite less spraying. Maybe itÂs the Daconil I havenÂt used it for awhile.
Abe Darby  getÂs more BS than I would like but I really like the peach color so I put up with it.
Winchester Catherdral and Mary Rose  I havenÂt grown them for awhile so I donÂt remember exactly much about them, but I kind of miss them, esp WC, so I guess they did OK for me.

Gone and to be forgotten:
Golden Celebration  didnÂt like anything about it.
Lillian Austin  nice except it got too much BS.

Traviata is listed as a HT but really has the habit of a good Austin. ItÂs a really good shrub, gets big, and so does itÂs thorns.

IÂm hoping my branching into OGRs works better than when I tried HTÂs. I still have a few, and I really like and want to keep most of the ones left, but there are so many dogs out there IÂm not sure I would do it over again.

Good luck with yours

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 2:45PM
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Thank you, Dennis, for being so specific! You've given me a lot of good information. I would definitely like to try Souvenir de la Malmaison, and I'll check out the Austins you suggest. This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for :-)

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 4:14PM
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YouÂre welcome.

HereÂs some more that have done really well for me with minimal care. For me minimal care means heavy fertilizing in April/May with a combo of Rose Tone and a fast acting chemical fertilizer, once/month spraying, no dead-heading and absolutely no winter protection.

Red Knock Out  to me itÂs more pink, thatÂs my only complaint. I know some think they are over used but having one doesnÂt hurt.
John Paul II Â the ONLY white HT that I havenÂt killed and IÂve tried most of them. This one is in itÂs third year and seems pretty happy. The happier he is the less happy my Queen Elizabeth is, sheÂs been in a severe decline the last 2 yrs; maybe thereÂs a correlation. SheÂll be gone in a couple weeks.

These are in their first year but are doing exceptionally well and since they are winter hardy I suspect they will make it thru winter well, I have others but theyÂre just OK so I wonÂt go into them.:
Alba Semi-Plena
Henri Martin (Old Red Moss)
Winter Sunset  Buck Rose
Buff Beauty
Cadenza - Buck Rose
Ducher Â
BelindaÂs dream.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2010 at 11:43AM
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newtie(z8+ MS)

two tough roses with a growth habit and form that fits perfectly with real OGR's and are tougher, and therefore better roses in my opinion, than the majority of the Austins are Basye's blueberry and Basye's purple. These roses seem to have a lot of rugosa in them so I suppose if you can't grow rugosas you might have trouble with these. Mine are thriving however. Basye's purple, in particular, is a very under rated rose and deserves to be an honorary OGR. In fact I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say it is the most interesting rose in my garden of approximately 100 roses.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 6:20PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

I grow Cardinal de Richelieu, and it does fine here. Not much suckering. Looks good during blooming season, gets some anthracnose at the end of the season, but I don't treat it with a fungicide as it is in the back yard.

Most of the Austins will need some kind of fungicide treatment. Heritage is nice, but it gets large here, over 6' tall.

Send me an e-mail. There are many fine Consulting Rosarians in the Philly area, and several give garden tours during the growing season with conditions similar to the ones you list.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 9:12PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

I have HMsk 'Lavender Lassie' in mostly shade, and it gives a long, heavy spring flush with no repeat. However, it defoliates from blackspot if not sprayed. Next year I am going to replace it with gallica 'Charles de Mills.' Gallicas and albas are considered somewhat shade tolerant, but we'll see how it does.

Gallicas are very well adapted to your climate. If you don't want a thicket of suckers, buy grafted plants from Pickering Nurseries and set the graft just above grade level.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 10:41AM
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