Cornelia's fragrance

true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)August 18, 2014

HMF mentions that is moderately fragrant, however in many books I've read, it is mentioned that Cornelia is one of the most fragrant Hybrid musks. I'm confused.

Is it like some roses (Alba semi-plena in my experience) that are moderately fragrant in close quarters, but that they can waft?

I grow Felicia, which is delightful both up close and from afar.

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The musks waft but are not so fragrant close up as other kinds of old roses. Their fragrance comes from the stamens of the open flowers. It is sweet but not so delicious as, say, the damask Jacques Cartier. The autumn crop is also said to be more fragrant than the spring flush. I too bought Cornelia under the impression Cornelia was one of the most fragrant -- if not the most fragrant of all -- and was at first disappointed. I have had it for over 30 years it a shady location. It is quite sweetly fragrant and also extremely vigorous (without being out of bounds) and disease free. Mine doesn't make new wood from the base though -- it is growing more like a standard. I got it from Pickering. Sigh. For what it's worth, I think Buff Beauty has one of the most delightful musk aromas as well as being supremely beautiful. But I am happy with Cornelia since it is happy with me.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2014 at 5:31PM
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Different noses smell different things, due to the differences in our olfactory glands, a rosarian told me once.
while some find the Hybrid Musk; Cornelia to have a moderate fragrance, I find it to be very well scented, both in its' type of musky-rosey scent and the degree of scent.
My neighbor said that he thought that all of the (14 types) of Hybrid Musk roses he smelled in our garden were intensely fragrant, while I found them to be mildly so to very fragrant.
anywhere from 3-4 out of 10 (Queen of the Musks, and Lavender Lassie) to 7-8 'Cornelia' and Callisto' while 'Felicia' c. 8 out of 10, smells of sweet watermelon with a faint whiff of Damask rose to me and it is dependably fragrant under all conditions.

Cornelia is my favorite pink Hybrid Musk, for its charming strawberry pink blooms and pretty dark green foliage, I have espaliered it against a wooden fence. It always brings me joy when I see it in bloom, and I consider all of Pembertons' Hybrid Musk roses to be wonderful plants.

The only Hybrid Musk I've ever smelled that , to me, has a scent that is close to that of Rosa moschata is 'Pax' which is odd considering how little true Musk Rose blood the class of Hybrid Musk roses have.
The fragrance of Rosa moschata drives me sleepless with desire and I eagerly await its long bloom season each year.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2014 at 9:13PM
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O most sweetly fragrant is 'Cornelia' to my nose. It wafts, and is generally a glorious rose. I suppose it depends on how well you perceive musk fragrance. 'Felicia' smells if anything even better, musk fragrance with old rose added, as Luxrosa said. The Pemberton Hybrid Musks rank very high with me, and scent is a large part of their charm.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2014 at 1:20AM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

Thanks everyone for your input.

Originally I was planning to get Buff Beauty & Cornelia. Both in dappled/ partial shade.

I liked Cornelia being thornless and having a "pervasive" scent according to Graham Thomas. I was planning to plant it close to the main pathway. Being thornless seemed a perfect idea. I would have been happy with a decent 2nd flush MId August / Early september.

Unfortunately with Pickering's sad news, I can't get Buff Beauty and have decided not to plant anything there for the time being.

So, I prefer to get one very fragrant HM from Palatine with the strongest scent, than a somewhat sweetly scented one. Palatine's Strong scented roses are (according to HMF) Lavender lassie, Moonlight and Queen of the Musks followed by the Medium scented Cornelia & Prosperity.

I am not to fond of LL's color. So it seems it's either Moonlight or Queen of the Musks. What do you think?

BTW When I smell Felicia, I smell rose water with a twist, but only indoors. The twist, being a little myrrh.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2014 at 10:04PM
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Cornelia is not thornless. It is also quite fragrant. And don't forget Penelope. Both it and Cornelia have interesting reddish apricot buds that contrast nicely with the open flowers. Another one to consider is Kathleen, a single. It has the grace of a wild flower , is beautiful in autumn, and likes to climb.

The problem is too many choices.

Here is a link that might be useful: comparison of several hybrid musk blooms

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 2:50AM
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hoverfly - 9a London(9a)

I find Cornelia is anything from mildly fragrant to overpoweringly so, depending on weather and timing. It lacks Felicia's old rose scent, though.

It's supposed to waft but I haven't noticed it yet. Mine is only in its first year.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 7:38AM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

Monarda thanks for the link. They all look lovely, especially Buff Beauty. Oh, Pickering where art thou! Actually my choice is limited to Palatine's selection. At this point I might go for Moonlight as it resembles the lovely Penelope.

I was under the impression that only Rosa moschata's scent (and immediate family) came from the stamens and not the HM as they are remotely related to them as they are issued from Trier a Hybrid Multiflora by Peter Lambert. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks Hoverfly9 for the feedback that gives me an idea of the scent.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 2:58PM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

True Blue, you always takes your chancesâ¦but there is Hortico.
Felicia is a wafter here for me. Wonderful! Same with Cornelia. Prosperity, not as much.
Buff Beauty and r. moschata haven't given me any blooms yet.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 8:29PM
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I have to confess that my information about the fragrance of the musk roses comes from The Fragrant Year, by Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell, a book that over 30 years ago helped make me a fanatic. (The cheap reprint from 1976 is still available). I imagine that some of the Pemberton musks are more like moschata than others. Bell and Wilson characterized its scent as resembling an iron pot being heated up on a stove !! whatever that means. Unfortunately I can't locate my falling-apart copy or I could check. The hybrid musks are descended from Trier, which is more like the species. They also said that some musks hardier than others and some (like Pax) weren't hardy for them -- they gardened in Philadelphia and Connecticut. I remember they especially liked Buff Beauty, Cornelia, Penelope and Vanity for scent and hardiness (in those days winters were colder than now) and, I guess, availability. Though they also liked Felicia. Also, Cornelia had one of the highest ratings from the American Rose Society -- I imagine for its vigor. That is why I got mine. (Of course all these roses will be more floriferous in full sun than in shade).

I should mention that in those days Kathleen was particularly prized by plant connoisseurs who said things like "if I had a small garden and could have but one rose..." It seems not to be so much in favor now, but I have one.

Now, of course, we have so many more choices.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 11:21PM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

Monarda, it's so funny. It was because of the same book, that I got "hooked" on Cornelia. Who can resist a rose, which in full flower can perfume an entire neighbourhood! Writers! how can they exaggerate!

Graham Thomas mentions pronouncedly soft, rich,musk and pervasive.

It is possible you've mixed up multiflora and moschata?

Susan, I'm tempted by Penelope, it seems lovely, but Ive heard so many wrong plant stories from Hortico, that I'm not sure I want to risk it :-)

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 5:08PM
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I am sure that I did mix up moschata and multiflora -- also, I had completely forgotten about "perfuming an entire neighborhood" -- forsooth!! That must have cinched it for me. No wonder I was disappointed in poor Cornelia, who could survive a buildup like that? We are reconciled now. My back yard is not conducive to wafting, no matter how fragrant the flowers, it seems -- though I must say, nicotiana "marshmallow" was a wafter last year.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 10:05PM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

Yes, that's why I had to ask about Cornelia's fragrance. There are many plants, which can do that in my climate, mostly fragrant trees, and Cestrum Noctornum at night. But roses only bless my backyard.

My Felicia wafts, however, when all rose are in bloom it is difficult to discern, which is which.

I found the quote about a overheated iron skillet, it is R. multiflora :-)

    Bookmark   August 22, 2014 at 3:23PM
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