Kronprincessin Viktoria

zjw727(Coastal Oregon Zone 8b)September 25, 2012

I'm attracted to the idea of planting the white-yellow sport of Souvenir de la Malmaison...The color is lovely and subtle, and I especially like the fact that its a small plant, with coloring being white to yellow, instead of white to pink. Does anyone grow it? I'm in zone 8b, and spring can be very wet here, and I understand the problem with balling that comes up with roses like this. When I've seen it growing, I've noticed that it looks quite clean, but I also think its much less fragrant than SDLM...or is it just my nose? Any opinions/advice?

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Please keep in mind that I'm in hot, dry inland southern California but I grow both SdlM and Kronprinzessin Viktoria. SdlM to my nose is much more fragrant. In my climate I have almost no balling even though I hand water in the evening and both bushes get covered in water. I agree that there is no pink tinge in KV, although for me there is at the most a slight tinge of yellow in the middle, and that would be in the cooler part of the year. I would say that due to a somewhat different petal conformation and more open form KV would be less likely to ball, but that's a question best answered by someone from your area. For me both are carefree, bushy plants that are almost always in bloom, and are not bothered by the heat. That might indicate that they would be happier in a warmer climate. If Jeri sees this she'll probably tell you that for her coastal Southern California garden the SdlM clan has been much less than satisfactory.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 1:39PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Yes. Ingrid's correct. SdlM is NOT a good rose in Coastal Southern California.
It pretty much sets the standard here for powdery mildew -- and I don't think I've ever seen a bloom open here.

And not for lack of trying! We've grown three separate plants of the bush form, and at least two climbers. All drech, in our conditions.

All of which does not mean that you might not do better with it.

Cascadia Heritage Roses Group is active in Oregon. You can check on them at:
https://sites.google.com/site/cascadiahrg/home
to get experienced input from your general area.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Cascadia Heritage Roses Group

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 4:06PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Unlike her sister roses, KpV is resistant to balling. The flower is not very fragrant to my nose, but some say they get a good fragrance. The plant is vigorous and free-blooming, wider than tall. Allow 4' of space for zone 7 and milder unless summers are very cool. Mildew is not much of a problem here, so I have no opinion about that.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 4:44PM
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jeannie2009

Evverything Michael said and then some. I'm a bit further north. Located at the very bottom of Puget Sound. Mine is completing its second summer. It's about 2 feet tall and the same wide. The fragrancew is light. The color is so classie...extremely light yellow...so nice. Clean...no BS nor Mildew.
The first week in July I transplanted it...and then noo more rain of any kind. Tough rose...it's doing fine. I water when I remember.
You'll love it.
Jeannie

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 11:14PM
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kittymoonbeam

I just ordered this from Vintage. 2 Years ago we were all talking of SdlM's many virtues and someone said I needed to get KV. I don't know why I put it off. I guess there was always something else that caught my eye. I finally decided to get one this year. I've got 2 SdlMs and love them. Why do they have to have that name? I don't even want to know what happened at that place that it was called that. Why couldn't Josephine have renamed it something beautiful? I know the rose was named for the gardens but I just call her Empress instead.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 11:34PM
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cath41(6a)

Kittymoonbeam,

LOL Souvenir de la Malmaison came from Josephine's garden, Malmaison, after she was dead. She did not have much say in the matter.

Cath

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 12:15AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

The rose was actually bred many years after Josephine died -- she never saw it. It was named after Malmaison because that was once the home of an amazing rose collection. Jean Beluze visited it after Josephine's death and was sad to see that the roses were gone. When he bred this rose, he named it in memory of that once-great rose collection ("souvenir" translates to "in memory of").

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 12:34AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Oh, and it didn't actually come from her garden. The only connection to Josephine was that it was named in memory of her rose collection, which was gone by the time SdlM was introduced. SdlM's seed parent wasn't even introduced until about fifteen years after Josephine died.

I remember some of the details because I gifted a repotted band of SdlM to someone and typed out information on its story.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 12:47AM
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zjw727(Coastal Oregon Zone 8b)

I love this forum. I'm so glad I discovered it! This kind of information and advice simply can't be found in books. Jeannie2009, if you're at the bottom of Puget Sound, then our climates are pretty similar. What other roses do you grow?

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 3:24AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

"Malmaison" means "hospital," or more literally "house of sickness."

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 10:28AM
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kittymoonbeam

Oh it was a hospital. I heard it was named the bad house because wicked things happened there.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 10:34AM
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monarda_gw

I visited the Ch�teau de la Malmaison and found it exquisite - a jewelbox, compared to Versailles. I understand that now the rose gardens there have been restored.

After her divorce from Napoleon, Josephine was a great patron of scientific rose-breeding and her memory was revered. Many rose-breeders were former followers of Napoleon, who introduced a rationalized civil service, promotion on the basis of talent, not rank, and pensions for veterans. I think the Bourbon roses were introduced after Josephine's death, but Souvenir de la Malmaison was named in honor of her memory.

There is a French mini-series about Napoleon with Isabella Rosellini as Josephine, which tells the story from the French point of view. Whatever its merits as a drama, it has fantastic costumes and sets and would be worth seeing for those alone (don't remember any gardens, particularly). Incidentally, in the movie series the characters say that Malmaison is supposed have received its name from bad things that happened there in the middle ages, but Josephine tells Napoleon she believes she can transform it from a house with sad memories into a happy house: http://youtu.be/v5nwB4dDDgk (at around 58)

Here is a link that might be useful: Cultivating style

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 11:35AM
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zjw727(Coastal Oregon Zone 8b)

My visit to Malmaison didn't turn out very well...I was in Paris during a freezing January, and decided to go out there one day after lunch. It takes forever to get to, from the center of the city: you take a suburban train to the end of the line, and then a bus...and then the rest of the way by foot. By the time I got to the gates it was 4 o'clock, and they were preparing to close, and with all the charm one expects from Parisian civil servants, they refused to let me in. Depressing.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 12:53PM
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odinthor

Just to give some hope to would-be growers of 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' in coastal Southern California: In coastal Orange County, 3 or 4 miles in from the beach, it does splendidly, blooming continuously, and only balling when it gets rained on. For this variety in this climate, I recommend own-root plants, which, in being less "ambitious," generate flowers less prone to ball; and I recommend, along the same lines, that the grower lay off fertilizing it a lot. (Same recommendations, by the way, for 'La France' and its ilk). There are some roses to which one should apply the maxim "The bigger they come, the harder they fall" . . .

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 1:52PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

'La France,' to my surprise, seems to be coping pretty well here.

But you're quite a bit warmer than we are, Brent -- and a good deal less foggy. (Or, at least, much of your area seems to be.) You have a colder winter, too. :-)

You ALSO get more rain than we do, FWIW.

This specific area is visible on most weather maps. Weather goes around us, blocked by the form of the hills. I think that's why they called this "Pleasant Valley." Because there was very little rain, ample springs to water crops and livestock, and the weather was mild.

Jeri

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 3:47PM
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catsrose(VA 6)

My KV blackspotted herself to death and was part the reason I nearly gave up on bourbons. But I have had better luck in other locations, so I will try her again someday.

My trip to Malmaison was superb. Yes, it is a little jewel and one can actually imagine living there, unlike Versailles, which is hard to wrap even your fantasy life around. Some of the gardens were restored. I'll go back again.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 5:22PM
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mariannese

zjw, the name seems to have been appropriate in your case. The name Malmaison comes from Medieval Latin mala mansio, meaning "ill-fated domain", "estate of ill luck". In the Early Middle Ages Malmaison was the site of a royal residence which was destroyed by the Vikings in 846.

Kronprinzessin Viktoria has been a much better rose in my garden than Souvenir de la Malmaison. It has very little yellow in it and never balls, not even in this unusually wet summer in Sweden.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 4:49AM
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labrea_gw

I've grown it for 8 years it's not grafted & is over 5 ft tall in my garden it sometimes sports pink blossoms .
This is m friend Kit standing next to mine about 3 years ago.


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    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 3:59PM
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zjw727(Coastal Oregon Zone 8b)

Wow! Its glowing with good health!!! Do you spray?

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 4:37PM
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jeannie2009

i have had success growing teas, chinas, and noisettes. The trick I find is to plant them in secluded places. In my place that is the back courtyard. Plenty of southern exposure and no wind. If you have an area that can protect the roses these will be successful for you I'm sure. All the best.
Jeannie

    Bookmark   September 30, 2012 at 1:18AM
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