Your Opinions on Arethusa

ArbutusOmnedo 10/24September 2, 2013

Hey there all,

What are your experiences with Arethusa? Bloom quality, shrub size and form, vigor, rebloom rate, scent, and any other observations are appreciated. I've seen Jeri mention pink Chinas don't fare well for her on the coast and I'm a little over a mile away from the beach in mild, frostless Santa Monica.

I love the appearance of the blooms when they're more Apricot or orange hued. Would that hue be difficult to come by in such a mild climate anyway? The past week was the first extended stretch of over 80 degree weather I can remember this year.

Thanks for your help, I keep learning new things here all the time as a novice.


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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

It about 5 foot tall, and the blooms are beautiful, but they blow fast. I don't even think they last a day, but we live in Tulsa where it is very hot.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2013 at 6:53PM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

I think it is charming. The blooms have never been pink in my garden. I agree with Sammy that it can blow fast in hot weather, but then more blooms appear quickly too.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2013 at 7:33PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Thanks for that tidbit on the short bloom life! I've read that the closest analog in many ways -and a rose I'm considering-is Perle d'Or. Would you or anyone else care to comment on that? I've heard very good things about Perle d'Or and I am considering putting it and Arethusa on the ends of a new bed.

Are there any other Apricot OGRs among the classes that don't need a winter frost that anyone can recommend for a coastal, mild climate? I haven't found many heartily recommended Teas or Chinas that seem to meet my ideal in Apricot tone besides Arethusa.

I truly love Gloire de Dijon, but don't have the space or experience -a very difficult rose from my understanding- to undertake it yet. Fortunately I'm just underway with roses, so there's plenty of time and experience to be had. Hope I hear some more of you chiming in with your thoughts! Thanks again.


    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 11:30PM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Perle d'Or should do very well for you. It loves warm places. You know it will get twice as big as Arethusa.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 10:05AM
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Try the Polyantha 'Sunshine' (Robichon, 1927). It's a compact plant, the fragrance is one of the most delicious around, buds and flowers are beautiful, leaves are handsome and healthy. One of the best!

    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 12:25PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Here, FWIW, is my experience with the above:

'Reve d'Or' performs here like a champ. OTHER Yellow-To-Apricot-Toned Tea Noisettes are quite "iffy" in my normally cool, often-foggy region, and on my miserable alkaline water.

(Brent, I think you get more heat than we do, under ordinary circumstances. AND you probably have better water.)

The "sunset-shaded" Teas -- such as 'Clementina Carbonieri' simply will not grow here. I've tried three times, with healthy plants from different sources.

'Safrano' I THINK is going to make it -- but it's not going to take over the world. And our 'Safrano' is a cutting from a very lusty and beautiful plant in an old cemetery. (See mother plant, below)

'Sunshine' on its own roots died here.
'Sunshine' budded onto Pink Clouds remains alive, and produces a few lovely blooms. But on the whole, I fear it is doomed.

As Arbutus noted -- Red Chinas are dynamite here. I can grow 'Louis Phillipe,' 'Cramoisi Superieur,' "Elisabeth's China" and 'White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth' from now til the cows come home.

PINK Chinas grow well here, and bloom, but they cannot shake serious powdery mildew -- and that was true, even when I sprayed.

'White Cecile Brunner' is wonderful here, and has a buff tone toward the center, as it opens.

'Perle d'Or' is fantastic here. Simply GREAT.


    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 2:10PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Mendocino Rose- There's really that big of a discrepancy in mature size? I can't say I've seen examples of either that make them seem like radically different shrubs, but that's something to take into consideration for sure.

Jeri- I hadn't looked into Safrano besides seeing its name on nursery lists online, but it is a charming rose. What tones would you say the rose most commonly takes on? There is quite a bit of variation in soft pinks and yellows, cream, and apricot from my short perusal. How large would you expect Perle d'Or to reach here by the way?

I know I've read your high praise of Reve d'Or before! I would love a yellow or yellow blended rose for a pillar in the front, but I fear Reve d'Or may be a bit of a monster for that application. If I can find the space, I know I'll give it a go sometime. I can't recall seeing anything poorly written of it. Is Bouquet d'Or one of the many "iffy" yellow-apricot tea or noisettes? I must confess I prefer the bloom of Bouquet to Reve

On an unrelated note Jeri: my mother asked me about Austins that do well around here and I recall reading (perhaps per your advice) that for a coastal, mild climate like this, something very important is to avoid those with Conrad Ferdinand Meyer in the parentage. Is this the case?

Thanks again everyone. Perle d'Or seems like a winner, but if Arethusa wouldn't quite match in proportion, I may look for a different counterpart for PdO.


This post was edited by ArbutusOmnedo on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 19:10

    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 5:20PM
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For decades a Reve d'Or' has been grown at a local rose park as a
self supporting shrub with the lower canes limbed, this creates a plant that is c. 7 feet tall, with one trunk like cane, it has the sillouette of a dwarf apple tree. The canopy is kept at c. 5 and 1/2 feet wide. Ed Wilkerson told me that once this is done to Reve d'Or' it tends to stay that way and will not want to climb ever again. I've visited that plant over the last decade and have seen that to be true. I'd like to do that to two Reve d'Or' to flank my entry walkway.

'Perle d'Or' is a fantastic plant, easy to grow and it blooms between a pale cream buff in very hot weather to a rich apricot with orange hues.
I've found it roots easily from cuttings.

Occasionally one of of the Canadian mail order nurseries (can't remember if it is or sells 'Comtesse du Cayla' on rootstock grows more quickly to be a 5' plant in cool climates and taller here near San Francisco.
I love its' hues of apricot, and red with orange. I would choose it over Arethusa, but it's a personal choice for beauty.


    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 6:14PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

As I said, I haven't grown Arethusa. But Perle d'OR can make 7 ft. -- eventually -- in full maturity -- in California.

Safrano: Below, see Safrano in a shaded cemetery. In front of my house, it's in a hottish location (for here) and it is noticeably paler. But it is still a very, very immature plant.

Agreeing with Lux, I would choose Comtesse du Cayla, myself. Or, perhaps, Rosette Delizy.

ARBUTUS: It is my understanding that Bouquet d'Or IS one of the "iffier" yellow Tea-Noisettes. Based on my experience in Camarillo, in view of the sea, it is not a rose I would try to grow near the SoCal coast, where our weather is NORMALLY cooled by the arctic current. Nature's air conditioning.

OTOH, give it a few years. We eventually may lose the cooling effect of that current, and be left with weather the like of what we've had for the past two weeks, eh?


    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 6:52PM
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Mendocino_Rose(z8 N CA.)

Yes Perle d'Or is definitely bigger. I've grown both. In a warmer climate than mine it's huge. Here it is much bigger than Arethusa.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 7:03PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

This is quite a late post, but roses stop for no one.

Jeri- Lovely picture. I quite like that shade! I was thinking about yellow OGRs that might succeed here and recall your praises of Niles Cochet and presumably the other Cochets here. Is Alexander Hill Gray's alternative title "Yellow Maman Cochet" merely a result of similarity of bloom or is it a true sport of Maman Cochet?

Alternatively, would the shrub Lady Hillingdon have a chance here? I've read old posts that mention it not liking the heat as much as other teas so perhaps it might like this climate. Of course, if it indeed does stay this temperature for longer periods going forward -a horrible thought-, then perhaps I can go iffier.

I happened to pick up a lovely half-off Sombreuil last week on an unrelated note. It should be quite wonderful. An Altissimo and a Cecile Beunner were also half-off and may have my name on them this weekend if still available.


    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 3:33AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Jay -- Is the Cecile Brunner a climber or a bush? If it is the bush, it's a terrific compact bush which will eventually get tall-ISH, but not giant. And it blooms all the time.

If it is the climber, it is capable of eating your entire garden, and is in most cases, spring-blooming only (tho I did get some Fall repeat with it, here).

Altissimo is a really lovely thing, and a good coastal rose.
So is 'Fourth of July,' which I like a bit better.

You asked about Conrad Ferdinand Meyer. It can't tolerate alkaline conditions. If your conditions are acidic, it may do fine for you. EYE personally thought it wasn't a really attractive plant -- but that could be because it wasn't happy.

Alexander Hill Gray -- parentage is not listed, so I don't know. But note that it is said to ball in damp weather. All of the Cochets do that, here, but they look really good, only half open, so I don't care.


    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 3:09PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

Jeri- The shrub! I let the White Lady Banks eat one part of the house, but I don't think I can take another at the moment.

Fourth of July was also available last week and after taking a trip to the Huntington today I think I would prefer it over Altissimo. Goodness was I in heaven today. There was nary another soul who braved the heat to take in the Rose Garden.

I figured whatever looks good now must be a pretty good rose, and I was not disappointed with some lovely roses. Though I'm sure the first flush of the year and the later fall flush are more spectacular. I was reminded why I first had so many HPs, Bourbons, Portlands, and Mosses on my prospective list.

Salet was lovely, Baron Girod was a lovely shrub though not in bloom, La Reine was sumptuous, and Boule de Neige may have been my favorite of the day. Both Lady Hillingdon and Maman Cochet most enchanted me in person amongst the Teas and Chinas. Maman Cochet was a bit tidier than expected and even the faded blooms retained some beauty. Lady Hillingdon in both the shrub and climbing form were stunning. A true beauty and some of the largest blooms of all the Teas and Chinas with any to offer today.

I very much liked Etoile de Lyon, Souvenir de Pierre Notting, and Georgetown Noisette as regards shrub form. So many wonderful varieties! It sure made me consider giving some of those alleged trouble makers a shot. The Portlands and Bourbons, headed by Jacques Cartier/Marchessa Bocella and Boule de Neige, were calling out to be put back on the prospective list. I'll get back to reality soon, but I'll enjoy my foolish whimsy for a bit longer.


    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 11:28PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Give yourself permission to try a couple of things that might be 'iffy' in your conditions. Even if they don't succeed, you've had the fun of trying.


    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 4:04PM
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'Perle d'Or' is one of my favorites. This rose is on steroids in my garden in Texas. She gets very large, has some thorns and has a wonderful fragrance. This rose is always in bloom during the growing season.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2013 at 7:12AM
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sabalmatt_dallas(Z8 Dallas)

Arethusa has not been a good performer for me. The blooms shatter and blow in a day or less, very little fragrance, stops blooming during our hot summer and is the only china or china/tea that I grow that becomes chlorotic in the alkaline soil here. Perle d'or and Comtesse du cayla are fantastic and I really like Spice.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2013 at 10:03PM
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ArbutusOmnedo 10/24

We actually ended up opting for Gilbert Nabonnand in this particular spot, but are currently torn about Perle d'Or and Buff Beauty in a large slightly shaded spot in her front yard.

I see glowing reviews of Perle d'Or generally, but Buff Beauty is aptly titled. The shrubs of Buff Beauty I have seen are large and graceful, which is fine for the spot. Would the shade impact Buff Beauty less than Perle d'Or? Hybrid Musks have the reputation of being fairly shade tolerant. Arethusa is lovely, but it will be lovely in other gardens for now.


    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 12:34AM
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