ID on 2 potential OGR's ?

shmooey(7B Seattle)October 29, 2011

Well, ive tried all season and im still stumped on both of these! So i turn to gardenweb forums once again :)

Subject #1 Very big rambler cascading down a giant cement retaining wall (photo is looking up at the plant from below). Extremely symmetrical and orderly looking blooms, 1.5 to 2 inches across, strong fragrance, Dark rich pink. And a once bloomer. Colors seem hot in photos because they were taken with phone.

Subject #2

Big fat meaty blooms, center of the bloom was a dark fuchsia and the edges were rich deep purple. the photos are TOTALLY WRONG COLORS. I was desperate to snap what i could though! Quite fragrant, stuffed with petals, and amazing velvety purple colors. This particular bloom was about 3 inches across. The only thing i can think of is maybe Charles de Mills, but never having seen it in person, i cant be sure.

Once again- colors are wrong on these photos!

Anyone take a stab? Thanks so much!

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

The first one reminds me of Russelliana (Russel's Cottage Rose). Do the leaves smell of pine? That's supposed to be one of its characteristics.

The second one does look like pictures I've seen of Charles de Mills, but there may be other old roses with a similar appearance. Others will have much more experience with the European old roses.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 3:16PM
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malcolm_manners

Considering the leaves, I suspect both are David Austin varieties, although I can't name them.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 5:52PM
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mike_rivers(z5 MI)

Considering Malcolm's suggestions, you might check out 'Chianti' and 'Falstaff'.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 8:28AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Would Charles de Mills ever get as much blackspot as #2 shows?

Wow, the closeup of #1 is remarkably beautiful!

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 1:54PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Center is totally not typical of Charles de Mills. Usually it has a 'hole' where the stamens should be. I've seen photos of ones that were deliberately starved in an attempt to produce stamens and therefore pollen, but the rest of this rose looks fine.

Austins were the first thing I thought of also.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 4:24PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Also, unless all of these were photographed in the spring, they're likely not Russelliana or any Gallica. Them Austins crop up in the oddest places. Our group was fooled by one at a historic church in an old mining town in the Sierra Foothills. :-)

Jeri

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 8:33PM
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melissa_thefarm(NItaly)

I was wondering about the Hybrid Bourbon 'Charles Lawson', which I think grows in Olympia, but apparently the flowers of these are too dark. How about another member of that group?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 1:50AM
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shmooey(7B Seattle)

These were actually both photographed in the spring, and they never re bloomed later in the year. It is an awful lot of black-spot for the purple one, so early in the season too... I didn't even think about that.

Some photos of Charles Lawson certainly do match the form, but the color, obviously, is much to dark. I will try and do some digging in that vein though.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 2:50AM
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