Queen of Sweden or Geoff Hamilton?

StarSeven7November 2, 2011

I bought this Austin rose this summer and it was labeled L.D. Braithwaite. After it started blooming pale pink, I realized it must have been mislabeled! I started thinking it was Queen of Sweden and even emailed pictures to the David Austin offices and they agreed with me. But after looking at more pictures of Queen of Sweden and comparing it to my rose, I think maybe it looks more like the pictures of Geoff Hamilton that I've seen. Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks!

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caldonbeck(UK (8))

It hasn't enough petals for Geoff Hamilton - most likely Queen of Sweden, have you had any tinges of apricot? Geoff Hamilton has probably twice the amount of petals which is why it is such a pain for balling.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 5:29PM
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StarSeven7

I would say mostly pink but I would have to go outside and look again to see if there's any hint of apricot and it's already dark out! The David Austin catalog lists Queen of Sweden as having 140 petals and Geoff Hamilton as having 110 petals? The rose I have has a nice scent but being new to roses, I can't differentiate between the different types of scent. It also has very few thorns, mostly towards the base of the plant (you can see in the pictures that there aren't any near the flowers).

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 7:10PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I have never seen a real GH, so can't help you there, but one of the biggest tip offs that it might be Queen of Sweden is if it is a very erect bush. QofS grows straight UP and blooms at the top--I don't remember ever seeing any arching or spreading or nodding canes on QofS, which makes me wonder about your pictures since they look like there is some very decided nodding going on.

The pink shade of QofS is very definitely an apricot-pink--but a very delicate pastel version of apricot-pink--quite exquisite.

If I remember correctly, QofS has relatively few thorns, and it grows about 4 ft tall (straight up, remember). It is not very wide--because it grows straight up.

It is dark and rainy outside, so I'm not going to go out and check, but I think I remember that the leaves of QofS aren't quite as pointed as most rose leaves--the end of each leaf is slightly blunted or a bit rounded? Someone help me out on that--I think I'm remembering correctly, but maybe not.

Hope that helps.

Kate

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 7:51PM
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StarSeven7

Thanks for your response Kate! My rose definitely has nodding canes and does not grow straight up at all. I wasn't sure if this was because the plant is young (planted at the end of July)? I will look at it tomorrow to see if there's a hint of apricot.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 8:45PM
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Krista_5NY

I grow Geoff Hamilton, (but not Queen of Sweden...)

I don't think it's Geoff, the foliage doesn't look right, and the bloom doesn't seem to look exactly like Geoff as well...

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 8:51PM
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roselee z8b S.W. Texas

Kate, it's dark here, but not rainy so being curious I went out with a flashlight and you're right. Queen of Sweden's leaves are more rounded and broad rather than narrowing before they come to a point like many other rose leaves.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 8:53PM
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karenforroses(z5 NorthernMI)

Here's Geoff Hamilton in my garden - he tends to have more of a cupped form, packed with petals in the middle, while Queen of Sweden is more open.

And here's my Queen of Sweden

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 9:14PM
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StarSeven7

Hmmm...it doesn't seem to look exactly like either of those! Here's a shot of the entire bush so you can see it's not really growing straight upright.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2011 at 9:46PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

That aint Geoff. The apricot comes and goes with the weather on QoS if it does have it it is likely to be her, but just cos it doesn't at the moment doesn't mean it isn't. When it is light here I will look at the unopened buds on both, that may well be a bigger giveaway than the open blooms. GH has hardly any thorns either so that is nothing to go by. With it only being first year, I doubt you can go by growth habit. Take a look at Geoff's dad - heritage, just to make sure it isn't that, I don't grow it, but it looks similar. http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?showr=452

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 12:01AM
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jeannie2009

I agree with Caldonbeck that it could be Heritage. If not that perhaps Sharifa Asma. When a bush is so young it is difficult to tell. Actually when it gets older it can still be difficult. Your bush is so healthy.
Jeannie

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 6:34AM
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roselee z8b S.W. Texas

The flowers, and especially the way the leaves twist and turn this way and that, do look like Heritage.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 9:53AM
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Krista_5NY

IMHO, it's not Sharifa Asma...

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 10:25AM
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StarSeven7

Ok, I just went outside to look at it and compare it to the pictures of Heritage and I think it could be that! Maybe I'll have to count the petals once they start falling. Thanks for your help everyone!

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 11:21AM
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bellegallica_zone9(9)

Since flower size, color, petal count, etc. can vary so much, it's usually better to focus on the plant for id purposes. Compare the foliage, stipules, sepals, receptacles, shape/color of thorns, etc. The problem with that, of course, it's sometimes difficult to get detailed pictures of all the plant parts since most people focus on the flower.

You should revisit the fragrance, too. According to Austin's website, the possibilities mentioned here all have different fragrances, so that could really help, too:

Queen of Sweden: light myrrh
Geoff Hamilton: light old rose w/ hint of apple
Sharifa Asma: strong; fruity; white grapes and mulberry
Heritage: strong; fruit, honey, lemon, carnations, myrrh background

Good luck! Let us know what you decide. Love a good mystery!

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 2:14PM
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Merilia(8 PNW)

I have no idea how people dissect a scent like that. To me, a scent at best smells like one thing. I can't describe the scent of Heritage as anything beyond "soap", and I know I don't like it very much. Oddly I normally adore scents describes as "fruity".

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 4:12PM
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bellegallica_zone9(9)

Merilia, I can't either. I meant to write that those were from Austin's website and seemed over the top. I hope StarSeven sniffs and describes in her own words what her rose smells like. It might ring a bell with someone who grows it.

With some scents, I can smell two layers if they're both strong: La France smells like lemons and old rose. Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona is something spicy over old rose. But that's about it. Usually scents are one dimensional to me.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 5:10PM
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karenforroses(z5 NorthernMI)

Bellegallica makes an excellent point. One of the first things I always notice about my Heritage roses is their lemony scent. Queen of Sweden does have more of a myrrh or licorice scent. Geoff Hamilton reminds me of my grandmother's talc power.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 9:24PM
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karenforroses(z5 NorthernMI)

I just though of another thing about my Heritage roses - they tend to shatter fairly quickly. It's a good thing they bloom consistently throughout the growing season, often the first to bloom in the spring and last to bloom in the fall - as it makes up for the fact that they don't hold long on the bush or in a vase. Queen of Sweden, Geoff Hamilton, Sharifa Asma all last much longer in the garden and in the house. Maybe you could use that as another gauge to figure out what it is.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 9:38PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

'karenforroses' how does the unopened bud in second pic compare to your heritage? It looks very round in the pic.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2011 at 10:06PM
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karenforroses(z5 NorthernMI)

The unopened bud in the picture of Queen of Sweden is typical of that rose's buds - full and round. The Heritage buds are smaller and not as round.

    Bookmark   November 4, 2011 at 7:14AM
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StarSeven7

I honestly haven't smelled enough roses to know the difference of scents, I only started growing roses this summer and the ones that were already at the house we moved into have no real scent and this Austin rose (whatever it may be!) definitely smells strong to me. I also think my rose shatters quite quickly which is one of the things that made me question whether it's Queen of Sweden or not because QoS is described as being a good cut flower and long-lasting in the vase. I've only cut one flower for the house and it seemed pretty droopy in the vase.

    Bookmark   November 4, 2011 at 9:33AM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

Bet it's heritage then - it's the only one of the possibles that's described as strong fragrance. That and it looks very much like it lol.

    Bookmark   November 4, 2011 at 3:31PM
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gnabonnand(Zone 8 Texas)

Hi, StarSeven7. Your rose looks identical to my 'Heritage' in every way ... leaves, plants habit when young, boom form and color.

Randy

    Bookmark   November 5, 2011 at 1:23PM
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Mountie(6b)

Perhaps it's Kathryn Morley.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2014 at 2:38PM
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