Cold hardy Teas?

seil zone 6b MINovember 21, 2011

I'm looking to push the envelope a little here. I really do love the tea roses and would like to attempt to grow one in my zone 6. What are your suggestions for ones that might be hardy enough to winter here? I don't have any color preference but be mindful that I live on a small suburban lot so nothing that gets enormous please. Thanks for your help!

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Seil, looking at the gardens which list them, William R. Smith and General Gallieni are listed in several gardens rated at zones 6a and 6b. With your colder winter and shorter season, I'd expect them not to get as large as they do here where winter isn't nearly as severe. I'd also expect those which could get bigger, should have increased vigor, perhaps making them perform better during the agreeable parts of your season. You might look up the ones whose descriptions have intrigued you and check out where they're being grown to get ideas what might work. Good luck! Kim

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:08PM
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Seil, I've had good luck with Duchesse de Brabant. Delightful blooms and fragrance.

I can't recall if you grow Gruss an Aachen.... it's not a Tea, more like a Hybrid Tea, but the blooms remind me of a Tea Rose and it's good in a cold zone.

Souvenir de la Malmaison and Cotilde Soupert are two others that are akin to Tea Roses, might be of interest.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:27PM
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Seil, I forgot to mention Mme Alfred Carriere. It's not a Tea, more of a Tea-Noisette, but the blooms are beautiful and it's a happy bloomer.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:34PM
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Sorry, forgot to mention again, kind of sleepy tonight... Mme Alfred Carriere does get large in a warm zone, but here I think it will be a 3-5 foot tall rose. I've had it for two years, it's not mature, so I'm guessing about the mature height.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:40PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Gen. Galieni doesn't get very big for me here, either.

I thik, Seil, you might could keep him in a pot, and wheel him into a sheltered situation.


    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 11:10PM
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Campanula UK Z8

Hi Seil - my knowledge of teas is negligible but there is one rose I know of which is both dainty and hardy in most parts of the UK - Papa Gontier. This little rose is also well suited for pot culture.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 5:19AM
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greybird(z7 TX)

Pot culture is your best bet for teas in zone 6, unless you have a sheltered southern locations. They are marginal in my zone 7, and there is not much danger of them getting too big in 7 or below. Most of teas in the ground here are strongly pruned by freezing winter winds and some do not recover enough in the summer months to make them worth growing.
I schlepp tea pots in and out of my isolated barn all winter, in for the freezes, out for sunning.
My favorite has been Westside Road Cream Tea, profuse bloomer, nice growth habit and wonderful fragrance, perfect for pot culture. Devoniesis also has done well.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 11:12AM
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seil zone 6b MI

Thank you all for the great suggestions. I went and looked at all of these and so far I think I like the looks of William R. Smith and General Gallieni the best. They have that looser, softer form that I find so appealing in a lot of the teas. Like HTs but blousier and not so formal.

I'm trying to work my way up to Mutabilis eventually because I ADORE it! (Yes, I know it can get huge but I'm thinking in my climate maybe not so much?) But it's a china and probably doomed here but I don't know that for sure. So I thought I'd try some teas first, because I've seen so many beauties here, and see how they do with my winters and the protection I have to offer.

If you have any other suggestions I'm open!

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 11:26AM
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Seil, if you want Mutabilis, I'll send you cuttings and you can try it. If it doesn't work, oh, well. But, there is a lady on the RHA who is growing it potted in Minnesota, so what's to lose? Kim

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 2:00PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Oh, Kim, that is so nice of you! I don't think I'd want to try now though but in the spring when I can start them outside right away I would love to try and root some! I don't have very good luck with anything rosey inside the house except for my seeds germinating. And even those I don't do until after the first of the year so they can go out as soon as possible after germination. Roses just hate the conditions in my house!

I wonder how they're winter protecting Mutabilis in Minnesota. Maybe potted and garaged for the winter. I don't have a garage but I think I could get one more pot in the shed. I only winter the tree rose in there now because it's a small shed and it's overflowing with stuff, of course. If not it would have to go in the winter pot ghetto. Most things do very well in there but I've never tried a china before. But I like to experiment and have decided I need to try some of these beauties that I so love. Who knows. "They" told me you couldn't grow, and more importantly winter, roses in pots outside in Michigan when I said I wanted to try that one too! I learned a lot of things about growing and wintering roses in the past five years of doing so.

Besides the Gen. G. and WRS what does anyone think of maybe Archduke Charles or Reve d'Or's chances? I love the look of both of those. Although the duke is another china so that might be really iffy too. I've just decided that some of these OGRs have more of the charm and grace that appeals to me in roses. Don't get me wrong, I love my modern HT's, Minis and such for exhibiting. But I think in the garden I just enjoy the OGRs more. I know I can grow bourbons, galicas, hybrid perpetuals and rugosas etc., I already have those, but like I said, I like to push things and experiment too. The challenge is the draw I guess.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 4:53PM
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Seil, I'd think you'd have more satisfaction from trying those which will flower when still quite small and give decent disease resistance as smaller plants. I grow and love Reve d'Or but find it isn't happy when it kept too small. Like most yellow Tea Noisettes, it resents over pruning and I'd think trying to maintain it smaller would not only prevent it from providing you the blooms you want it for as well as be addicted to fungal issues. It will mildew when that is bad, but out grows it when it's allowed to be big. Your season and need to keep it manageable would both prevent it from attaining the size it wants. Perhaps some of the yellow Teas might give you the look on smaller plants? As for Mutabilis and Archduke Charles, they will flower as smaller plants, so should provide you with some flowers when maintained the way you must to be able to handle them. I'd think you would have greater mildew, perhaps black spot, issues on them because they WANT to be larger plants, but that's part of the fun of your exploration. Both are easily rooted and obtainable from many of us here, so the most you'd be out would be time, a little postage and some rooting hormone. Give them a try. It couldn't hurt. Lady Hillingdon is a later "Tea", though because of its reported greater cold hardiness and date, I'd suspect it to be more of an early HT. It has the marvelous bronzy new growth like Mutabilis with the "nodding" peduncles characteristic of Teas and more Tea-like HTs. I think you'd love the apricot tones against the bronze and dark green as well as the fleeting apricot scent.

You might also consider, as Jeri suggested, some of the poly Teas such as Mlle Cecile Brunner and Perle d'Or. Sunshine can be heart breakingly beautiful, too. All three are marvelously fragrant and being relatively closely related to multiflora, might prove a bit less tender for you there. Kim

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 5:38PM
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Ispahan Zone6a Chicago

This past weekend I visited the wonderful Chicago Botanic Garden and I was surprised to see both 'Maman Cochet' (bush form) and 'Old Blush' (bush and climbing forms) among their rose plantings. 'Maman Cochet' still had a bud or two on about six plants, but these plants looked very unhappy indeed--weak, stunted and with only a few lopsided twigs growing above ground. I am not sure if they are winter protected, but it certainly didn't look like it.

'Old Blush' on the other hand, while not the most robust rose I have ever seen, seemed to be doing quite nicely. Several specimens had actually formed decent-sized shrubs over the years about 2.5-3 feet in height and about the same width. The climbing form, planted against a wall, was about twice as large, so was more like a largish shrub rather than a climber. All of the 'Old Blush' specimens, both bush and climbing, still had plenty of buds and few open flowers, which were a darker pink than normal due to the cool autumn temperatures. Fragrance was China-like (kind of like sweet peas) and surprisingly strong, no doubt due to decreased petal transpiration in cool temperatures and cloudy weather.

All of these plants had originally come from the Antique Rose Emporium and a few still had the original ARE tags somewhere on the bush.

After seeing 'Old Blush' in person near my home, I am considering adding it to my garden in the future. I love the china roses, and 'Old Blush' has that perfect "cottage-y" look I have always loved. And I second (or third) the recommendations for 'Cecile Brunner' and 'Perle d'Or' given above. I planted both this fall and hope they survive the winter. I have grown both in the past and they are exquisite, graceful and extremely fragrant, looking very much like miniature tea roses.

I once grew 'Mme Alfrd Carriere' in Michigan near Kalamazoo. It certainly survived and flowered, growing stronger and larger each season. But I was never really happy with it, since it always looked lanky and threw up many flailing ams which never got the chance to branch and become graceful before being winter killed. Fragrance was not very strong in that climate, either. It was also prone to mildew in late summer. YMMV.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 6:39PM
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sabalmatt_dallas(Z8 Dallas)

Hi Seil,
I can't speak for tea performance in z6, but my mom grows mutabilis in Kansas City, Missouri z6 and it has been wonderful- she loves it. It gets a mulch around the base in fall, but has been carefree and everblooming.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 12:11PM
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Seil, I grew William R. Smith in a pot when I lived in the south and first got him - it is so "big boned" and grows in all kinds of angles - it just looked odd in a pot; like trying to put the Jolly Green Giant in a tea cup - that was just my experience, anyway ... the blooms are lovely, though. Mine didn't bloom that much even after I put him in the ground, but the Cochet family may take more time to mature and their blooming may increase. It was my first tea and who knows what terrible things I did to him, anyway.

General Gallieni is one of my very favorite teas because of its number of blooms and disease resistance. The rose was named for a general, though, and the blooms are unlike any soft feminine bloom I know. The petals are almost rigid - that's not a good word, but there is nothing soft about that rose. I always thought I should salute it when I went out by the mailbox where it was planted. Just sayin'... but I do love that rose.

If you don't have a problem with mildew, I'd think about Krista's suggestion of Duchesse de Brabant - it dies down to the ground for her zone 4 winters but comes back every year. That is a very soft, blousy beautiful bloom, with a wonderful scent. I love that rose, too.

Good luck with mutabilis; another wonderful choice. If you like the blooms on Marie van Houtte, variable pink and creamy yellow, I might try that one. It is so vigorous that maybe it will come back ever year with a vengeance. It's one of my favorites for health and bloom-ability. Mrs. Dudley Cross is a little less vigorous but no thorns; a lot of people it for that reason.

Also, Mrs. B. R. Cant. If you get lots of good sun in the summer time, that will help them store up energy in their canes to help them make it through the winter. Just my opinion, but I think that's right, based on what I've seen up here in the land of no-sun.

Good luck, Seil. Envelope pushing is a lot of fun! Good luck choosing; teas are my favorite class of rose. I say that all the time, so you probably already know that, lol.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 2:29PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Sorry it took me a while to get back here. Had a houseful of company for the Holiday.

Thanks for the tip about RdO, Kim. If it's not going to be happy and bloom than I don't think I want it. I'll have to check out Perle d'Or and the others too.

Ispahan, thanks for the info. You're in my zone but I actually think your winters may even be a little harsher than mine. I think you get a lot more wind coming down off of Lake Michigan. I'm on the leeward side of Lake St. Clair so we don't get the snow and wind as much.

Thank you, Sabalmatt! I am going to give it a try. Like Kim said, it can't hurt to try.

Harborose, thank you for all the great suggestions! I need to check out all of those and see what I like. I can only add a few at a time so I'll have to be choosy. Space is the real premium around here. I'm at a point now where nothing new goes in until something old bows out. But I usually loose a couple every winter for one reason or another and that's what I'm planning for.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 11:36AM
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authors have listed these 3 Teas as good for cool climates:
Mme. Antoine Mari' one of the most exquisite pink Tea roses.
Lady Hillingdon', which some say is a Hybrid Tea by breeding, it was bred in England and is still popular there.

I'd also try some of the Tea-Hybrids in a cool climate these all have one Tea parent:
Souvenir de la Malmaison" which has a Tea parent and a Bourbon parent, classified as a Bourbon but has these Tea traits: very floriferous, soft petals like a Tea rose. more rapid re-bloom than most roses in the Bourbon class.
'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' a white Tea-Hybrid. the climbing form grows to be a self supporting bush of c. 8 feet tall by 8 feet wide, and like a Tea rose it blooms early here in the year during the same week that the Tea-Noisette 'Mme. Alfred Carriere comes into bloom in late February, while most h.ts here don't come into bloom until late april and may.
La France' a lovely fragrant pink Tea-Hybrid. sells it some years.
Two polyantha-Tea hybrids;
Mlle. Cecille Brunner" the original form grows to be a small plant of c. 4 feet, in Seattle. The bigger Spray form blooms the longest.
Perle d'Or' in cool climates this lovely rose shows its best hues of apricot-rose and salmon.

I would grieve if I couldn't grow Tea bred roses, and I'd grow all of these listed above if I still lived in a cool climate.

Good luck,
please post back about your Tea roses.


    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 5:30PM
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TNY78(7a-East TN)

Seil, One of my first roses (only 3 years was Mutabilis before I was educated on zones and types of roses I purchased it because I loved the look of its blooms. Its done fine here in my 6b, but I think we're still a little warmer than your Michigan 6b. I just transplanted it this past weekend to a location where it can grow larger; just crossing my fingers that it winters ok! I say go for it, and with the cuttings, there's nothing to lose!

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 7:44PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Thank you, Luxrosa! I'll look into those and I will definitely let everyone know what I finally get.

Tammy, thanks for the encouragement! I'm sure your winters are a bit warmer than mine. My sister lives in Lexington, KY and is zone 6 too but I know her winters are warmer. But I'm willing to try anything once!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 5:13PM
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I can count to three, I really can.
the third Tea rose that should have been at the top of my list is 'Adam' which is sold by or in Canada.


    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 6:34PM
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