Do you recognize this lady?

vmr423December 18, 2013

I've mostly been lurking on this forum, since I don't actually grow any roses myself- too much shade & no money for plants. However, a gardening friend has said I can have a cutting of this rose, and it seems to be doing pretty well in conditions similar to what I can provide, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

The gentleman whose plant this is can't recall her name, but says that she's an old cabbage rose and has a woman's name- he thinks it's a name with two words. Any thoughts as to ID?

The following pix were taken (in mostly low-light conditions- sorry!) in the SC Lowcountry between late September and mid-December 2013.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I'm not great at ID'ing this group, but that looks like a Tea. And the first pic made me think of 'Mons. Tillier', but I'm sure others more familiar with Teas can offer a better guess.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 12:19PM
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vmr423

Thanks so much for having a look. Here in the coastal South, teas are always likely suspects.

I would guess that the plant is about 6-8 feet tall, although she would probably be much taller if she were completely upright- she has what I would call an arching habit (but please remember that I know very little about roses, so that may not be the proper descriptive jargon!).

She is also fragrant, but my sense of smell isn't too reliable, so I can't say if the fragrance is light, strong, tea-like, etc. She has some thorns, but not many- I forgot to post a photo showing the reddish thorns... perhaps they provide a clue?

The term 'cabbage rose' has me a bit confused. Is it sometimes used generically to describe any rose with a full appearance? Is it used interchangeably with 'centifolia'? I don't think he's likely to be mistaken about the description- if he says it's a cabbage rose, that's because it was described to him that way, although the phrase might not mean the same thing these days? He and his late wife were both plant-crazy and ran a nursery for years, although she knew more about roses than he did.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 1:46PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

"Cabbage rose" was first used to describe the Centifolias, then later the term was applied to some Hybrid Perpetuals which had a similar flower form. I think the term continued to be used (if rather incorrectly) to describe almost any many-petaled rose with the old flower shape (as opposed to the high-centered shape epitomized by Hybrid Teas and some of the later old Teas). If you saw flowers that late in the season, it's not a Centifolia -- but that's apparent by looking at the pics, anyway. To my eye, it looks rather Tea-ish, which could mean it's actually a Tea, or a Hybrid Perpetual (or Bourbon) with Tea breeding, or an early Hybrid Tea. I'm hoping that more Tea experts from CA will chime in with stronger opinions.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 3:01PM
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farmerduck

I am a novice, but my young B.R. Cant is similar to your rose in flower, foliage and thorn pattern. I heard that it is difficult to positively ID pink Teas (or was it rather pink Hybrid Teas?) because there are a large number of them.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 3:08PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Dang, I returned to this thread because I just thought "maybe 'Mrs. B. R. Cant'..." but you beat me to it.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 3:29PM
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vmr423

I actually ran 'Mrs B R Cant' by the plant's owner since I thought the flowers were similar. He didn't think that was the name, but he may not have heard me well- names with initials can easily sound like something else.

I looked at Mrs BRC at HMF, and about half the photos looked similar, and the others did not. Different growing conditions, I guess. Also, I forgot to mention that this plant has been in a container for years...

Thanks for your help- unless someone knows of another similar-looking rose, I'll assume that this is 'Mrs B R Cant'. Which is great, since she is supposed to love our hot weather, and will tolerate some shade...

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 4:30PM
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malcolm_manners

Mrs. B. R. Cant was my first thought too. It's quite variable, but all of your photos COULD be it.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 5:47PM
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vmr423

Thanks for your perspective- I really appreciate it. I know that a rose by any other name smells as sweet, but I do like to call my friends by the correct name...

I really loved the FSC Rose Garden photos you posted by the way. 'Edith Schurr', 'Dr Prevatt' and the 'Key West Rock Rose' especially appeal. I'm going to see if I can keep Mrs Cant (or her look-alike) alive, and if she does okay, I'm sure I'll be back here asking for advice on another shade-and-heat-tolerant rose to keep her company.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 7:16PM
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malcolm_manners

If that's who it is, and if you find someone with a good nose to test it, I'd say 'Mrs. B. R. Cant' has more of that cold-wet-used-teabag scent than any other Tea I've ever grown. It's pleasant, but really distinct.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 9:07PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

FWIW, I also think MBRC is a possibility.

Dang Teas, tho ... All of 'em are so changeable . . .

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 11:49AM
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vmr423

Thanks for the tip about the teabag scent- that's a useful test.

My sense of smell is like my sense of hearing- some frequencies are far better than others. I'm always extremely sensitive to certain odors- such as cigarette or wood smoke- but other scents are hit-and-miss.

I know that temperature and humidity affect odor molecules, but independently of those factors, my sense of smell waxes and wanes on its own mysterious schedule.

This post was edited by vmr423 on Thu, Dec 19, 13 at 14:31

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 1:56PM
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vmr423

Whether she is MRBC or not, I will love and cherish her if she'll grow in our yard! We have lots of space and lots of shade trees, so it is camellia-and-azalea-heaven, but not exactly ideal for most roses.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 2:29PM
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