Thoughts on these Teas and Austins

buford(7 NE GA)December 26, 2013

I'm looking at a total (enforced) front yard redo because of a county water project. I will have the large center bed in my yard cleared of the huge overwhelming junipers that were planted there by the builder. I have put some roses there but between the junipers and the cherry tree (which will also be removed) and the thick sticky clay soil, they haven't done well.

Because this area is right in front and close to the street, I was thinking of doing mostly teas and other large shrubs as sort of a counter to the usual KOs that most landscapers would use in this type of spot. I do have these teas/ogrs in pots that I may use:

Perle d'Or
Cramoisi Superieur
Mutabalis (which I will probably put in the back in the butterfly garden, which is also being dug up)

These are some of the roses I have there now :

Golden Celebration
Graham Thomas
Moondance (2)
Frankly Scarlett (3)
Baronne Prevost (3)
This is my 'wish list' of teas/Austins that I want to add:

Won Fan Yon
General Gallieni
Etoile de Lyon
Archduke Charles
Lady of Shalott
Darcey Bushnell
Young Lycidas

I'm looking to see the mature sizes of the teas/austins to better plan this bed. Also which ones are good performers, if they ball or are thrip magnets (I already have enough of those, thanks!) rebloom and fragrance (PdO in a tiny pot can already scent a good size area, which is another reason I want to use it in the front). Also disease resistance.

I am also considering climbing SdlM and possibly Alchemist on pillars. I've read that Alchemist is a once bloomer, is that true? Would these roses go well on pillars.

Also, what companion plants would go well? I'm sure this bed will take awhile to be mature, so I'll need something to fill in while that happens. I am replacing the tree, but it will be pushed to the extreme right of the bed, out of the range of the new easement so it will not have to be dug up again. I'm thinking of a dogwood or flowering crab apple. I will put azaleas or other shrubs under the tree.

This spot gets full sun, 10 hours in the summer and the soil is clay, which I hope to amend after the digging is done (it may even be better that it is now since they will 'till' the clay up when they dig) and I hope to also add a drip irrigation system in the bed.

Thanks in advance!

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Lady of Shalott is a good choice. Mine is only a couple years old, so I can't address its mature traits, but so far it looks like it is heading for about 4-5 ft tall and maybe 3.5 ft wide. However, it did put out a couple longer canes this past summer. I don't know if that means it plans on growing 6-7 ft tall in another year or two or if those are examples of the jolly green giant syndrome some Austins are notorious for displaying. At any rate, I just pruned them off midsummer at about 4-5 ft and we continued on as usual the rest of the season.

This past season was plagued with all sorts of leaf diseases all over my yard (cloudy summer!), and Shalott had some leaf problems, but no worse than the other roses, which all have good disease resistance--but none did well under continual cloudy skies. Its first year, Shalott did better than most of my roses in resisting disease. Guess it will take at least another year before I can say how it does for sure, but it is not a disease magnet.

No problems with balling or thrips here. With my allergy problems, I couldn't tell you much about the fragrance since I have trouble smelling most of the fragrances.

I do like the Lady--unusual bloom color, but that is another reason why I like her blooms.

Good luck in your planning.


    Bookmark   December 26, 2013 at 10:10AM
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plantloverkat zone 9a north Houston(zone 9a)

I don't have any experience with most of the roses on your list, but I do grow Perle d'Or, Mutabalis and Cramoisi Superieur. In my present garden they grow with only half a day of sun (or possibly less), and filtered shade the rest of the day. I also had these roses when I lived in the Dallas area - zone 8a, clay soil, and all day Texas sun. These three will definitely prosper in the latter conditions, and will stay a bit more compact and bloom more with full day sun.

I never have problems with any of these balling. I know some people have reported issues with Cramoisi Superieur balling, but I do not know if this is dependent upon location, time of year or perhaps the particular clone. I believe that what is called Cramoisi Superieur in different parts of the country may be different plants, so if it makes any difference my Cramoisi Superieur came from Antique Rose Emporium.

I only just planted Perle d'Or last week in my yard here, so I can't really address the thrips issue for it. I certainly don't remember thrips being a problem on this rose when I grew it in the Dallas area over 12 years ago. I don't remember ever having thrip problems with Cramoisi Superieur or Mutabalis.

To my nose, Cramoisi Superieur is a very fragrant rose, and it is consistently fragrant regardless of time of year or temperature. In the hotter part of the year (really most of the year here) Cramoisi's color is more cerise, but in the colder weather like we have right now, it looks more red.

I find all three of these roses to be very disease resistant. As you may very well know, both Perle d'Or and Mutabalis have been selected as Earth-Kind cultivars here in Texas.

This post was edited by plantloverkat on Thu, Dec 26, 13 at 10:58

    Bookmark   December 26, 2013 at 10:19AM
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I can't tell you how their disease resistance will be in your yard, but am a fan of 'Safrano', 'Etoile de Lyon', and 'Archduke Charles'. 'Safrano' gets mild mildew in my garden, as do roughly half the roses I grow, but it's bearable. All three are very handsome, well-behaved roses. Don't know the others, except slight experience with 'General Gallieni'. Not everybody likes its burnt brick-and-flame coloring.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2013 at 10:45AM
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alameda/zone 8

I grew Won Fan Yon from a band - it is now a fair sized bush. Lovely unusual color - coral/orangish. Blooms a lot for me, healthy bush though it seems a big twiggy.

One of my favorite companion plants is Angelonia - tolerates heat and drought and blooms from spring to frost. Also like the salvias - periwinkles are hard to beat.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 12:53AM
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Cramoisi is a definite winner. Mine is from ARE, and I have seen mature bushes as tall as 5-6' and as wide as 3-4'. Ogrose has 'Safrano' and I've only seen it once, but it was a tall rose. Easily 6' tall.

CS is nearly bulletproof here. The only thing that has stopped if so far has been the cold.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 4:49AM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Thanks for all the great input guys.

Kate, I think LoS is a sure bet. I've tried growing Pat Austin 3 times without success, so I'm going to try the Lady.

plant lover, great info. I do think PdO and CS are winners. I am especially excited becuse the CS and Mutabilis are from cuttings from original roses at the Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta.

Melissa, it was between GG and Archduke Charles, so I think you've made my decision for me. Archduke Charles it is!

alameda, I just looked up Angelonia, WOW. I think I can grow this from seed (which is important since I won't be able to buy a lot of companion plants.) Do you know if Angelonia is perennial or does it reseed like foxglove?

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 9:00AM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

'Darcey Bussell' is a great bloomer right from the start. If it had some fragrance it would be perfect.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 12:02PM
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alameda/zone 8

I have grown angelonia for years. It is heat and drought tolerant [so important in Texas!] but to my knowledge, it doesn't reseed. You might try larkspur - that comes up every spring [already have some popping up] and is lovely in purples, pinks, whites. Don't know how long it takes to grow angelonia from seed - you might ask that question on the seed or annual forum. I personally like the dark purple the best - white is also nice. The pink is pretty but doesn't show up quite as well as the purple. Throw some zinnia seeds among your roses.......they grow fast and provide lots of color. I had them reseed for 2 extra years.

I just bought an Archduke Charles from Chamblees. Love the different colors in the bloom. Another favorite is Mme. Berkeley - just bought 3 more of them. My bush has a lovely shape and when it is covered in those pale pink blooms, it is beautiful. You can find this in the sale bin there. I also love Mrs. BR Cant - a real beauty!

I am looking forward to trying the new Austins Bascobel and The Lark Ascending this year. I got Fighting Temerarie last year - the bush is strong and it bloomed a bit but looking forward to a better performance this year. My Golden Celebration has languished in a very sunny spot for years without a lot of growth or bloom. I am going to really try to kick it into gear this year with composted manure mulch and fertilizer and extra coddling. I got a Graham Thomas quite some years ago - it rarely bloomed but the bush was gorgeous. Tried everything on it. Chamblees told me to give it Carl Pool BR 61 fertilizer and that jump started it. I look forward to it blooming well again this year [though I don't see why it was rated #1 rose].

Have fun planting!

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 12:20PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Judith, please keep us updated on those newer Austins: Bascobel, Fighting Tremaire, and Lark Ascending. I 've got my eye on them--just in case a spot opens up in my garden. Bascobel, in particular.



    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 2:03PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Young Lycidas seems to have a problem with being lank and rangy, and the stems can't hold up the large blooms. Its leaves aren't very attractive either. I now regret buying this rose although in the beginning everyone was very enamored of it. I should have waited a few years, since now it's evident that the bush is not the greatest.

Mutabilis has been in every rose garden I've ever had. In my hot and dry climate it does best in morning sun and afternoon shade. I love that rose.


    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 2:49PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

Thanks ingrid, I saw Young Lycidas at a show and was thrilled by the color. However, if it has Austinitis and just throws out rangy canes, perhaps I'd be better off with something else.

I never thought I'd have room for Mutabilis, but apparently now I do!

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 5:17PM
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buford(7 NE GA)

I started pruning some of the existing teas I have to move. Here is also a good view of the new bed where the junipers will be removed on the upper right:

    Bookmark   December 29, 2013 at 11:02AM
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