Anybody grown Paw Paw's,Pakistan Mulberry or italian prune in AZ?

thisisme(az9b)November 28, 2007

Has anybody grown Paw Paw's,Pakistan Mulberry or Italian prune in Arizona? I also want to know if the Italian Prune and Italian Plum are the same tree.

Before I spend any money I would love to hear from others who have grown or attempted to grow any of these down here is the Valley.

THISISME

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softmentor(z9/sunset13 CA desert)

I'm in CA in the Palm Springs area, but our climate is like Phoenix. We do not have enough chill for pawpaw. They require 400 hours. if you are in a specific area where you get a little more chill, you could try them.
Mulberry do well here. The one thing to consider is that a fruiting mulberry will be like a trip to Hawaii for the birds. they love them. and they spread seeds. and seeds sprout. You will have lots of seedlings everywhere. and so will your neighbors.
They are ymmy though

    Bookmark   December 1, 2007 at 11:37AM
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thisisme(az9b)

Thanks for the reply softmentor, I was starting to think no one was going to. I was told we get 400-450+ hours of chill two out of every three years here. There are just so many plants and trees that sound like they should do well here but don't because of our very low relative humidity which dries out the leaves and kills them. I think I'm going to go ahead and purchase a Mulberry and when I can find one an Italian Prune tree too. My guess is Paw PawÂs will grow here and produce fruit two out of every three years but I would like to hear from someone who has grown them here before I give them a try.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2007 at 2:15PM
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softmentor(z9/sunset13 CA desert)

well, it sounds like you have enough chill. Pawpaw also like high humidity and shelter from the wind. Wind will shred it's leaves. Not much you can do about humidity but you can make sure it is on the wind protected side of a building ,wall or something substantial.
If you check with your local nurseries, not the big box ones but the local full service ones, you may be able to fine one that retails Dave Wilson trees. They have both. Here is the Dave Wilson site. You can't order from them directly, but the info about varieties is good. Try not to get lost... they have soooo many tempting varieties!

http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/homeindex.html

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 2:06AM
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solar_gh

We have had fruitless mulberries forever here in the valley so the fruiting type should be a breeze. Being an old Kansas boy I love the black ones but mom hated the stains. The birds leave the same stains as the berries pass through the system. There is a white variety that might be better.
As to the chill, I think that may relate to ground temps not air. Of course you could throw ice on the ground for several days to meet the chill criteria! :-) To grow things like apples, peaches and such you need to have low chill varieties to do well. Now if you live in Carefree, you might get lucky some years.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 10:21AM
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softmentor(z9/sunset13 CA desert)

solar gh
Chill requirements are of air temp. Generally, the hours between 36 and 48 degrees. Here is some info if you are interested.
http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/weather/aboutchilling.shtml

also, fruitless mulberries are mulberry trees with only male flowers. They are popular as shade trees and of course, none of the mess.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 1:31AM
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thisisme(az9b)

Thanks everyone. With the winds we get here I guess I will just pass on the Paw Paw's.

The Pakistani Mulberry produces large dark fruit that does not stain and it looks like I will be ordering one soon.

I was hoping someone would be able to tell me if the Italian Plum and Italian Prune are the same tree. I want a self fertile Italian Prune tree like the one I used to eat from as a child. I have looked and looked and can't find any in stock but there are tons of Italian Plum trees and the descriptions sound nearly identical.

Can anyone lend me any insight on this?

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 2:53AM
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solar_gh

After wading through the various dissertations, I understand the air temp being the control in the chill equation but as an old farmer I still equate ground temp with cycling of plant growth. Now the nesx question;
Are the hours of chill reduced by the hours at 60 degrees or more as suggested in other articles? That would be quite a consideration in an area where there may be several hours over 60 and the real time is thus lessened.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 1:41PM
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thisisme(az9b)

Hi solar gh, That may be a tough question to answer and may be specific to each tree just as chill hours are different for different peaches and plums and so forth. I know from reading that hours over 60deg does affect the chill hour requirment but who knows how much? We have not yet had a day this year with daytime temps under 60deg and we are expecting 77deg here in the valley tomorrow so I don't think we have any chill hours yet that count but I'm not a fruit tree so my counting does not count.

I called up Burnt Ridge Nursery to see about getting a Pakistani Mulberry and an Italian Prune/Plum tree and found out they would not ship until at least Jan 2008. The person on the other end was friendly and informitive and he told me that indeed the Italian prune and the Italian Plum are one and the same tree. I am overwintering Fig's and Tomatoe's and Pepper bushes indoors and was hoping to purchase now and get them here next week but I can't find any Nursery who has these trees in stock and ready to ship.

THISISME still with more questions than answers and still no sourse for my trees.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 8:50PM
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solar_gh

What kind of fig do you have to winter in the house? All but the smallest figs will survive and become dormant until spring and be the first to bud out here in Mesa. They grew wild along the canal banks when I was a kid here until open ditches became a thing of the past. Been here since 1960 and used to pick figs and pomegranates on the way to school. My tomatos are in the greenhouse more for convenience but they will handle cold until frost. The peppers are another thing as they seem to stop growing as the air cools off and really like the heat. Just an old farmer's personal observations, not accepted by everyone and not intended to be.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 9:34PM
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thisisme(az9b)

Hi solar gh, I have two Zumwalt fig trees that I want to grow another 2'-3' before I put them out the end of Feb 2008. I want them to get big enough to take some cuttings from so I will have some to trade and perhaps some to sell on eBay where my user name is also THISISME. Not wanting to waste the light I also put in two Brown turkey's and Tomatoe and Pepper plants and 5 Pandan plants and a Laquat tree.

I still have more room so I'm looking for more pepper and tomatoe plants and a small itallian plum/prune tree and a Pakastani Mulberry but no one is shipping them this time of year.

THISISME

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 10:18PM
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softmentor(z9/sunset13 CA desert)

The question of how much warm temperatures actually reverse the chill factor is still very much a hypothesis and needs a lot more study. In practical experience, there have been years that didn't seem like there were enough chill hours but the first chill days were early and everything still did well. the way to calculate is still needs to be studied and understood more. And of course it could be different for different for different kinds of trees, that is still not known. There are obviously a lot of variables.
Still, there seems to be some merit to the idea that certain range of temperatures are the most effective, and very cold temp really doesn't do as much as slightly warmer than freezing.

thisisme - an Italian prune is just and Italian plum that has been dried, regardless of variety.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2007 at 12:01AM
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