Chico - self fertile or self sterile?

helike13(7a)October 22, 2011

Hello!

I'm asking a question about self (sibling) pollinating Chico. Could it be successful? What are your experiences about this?

BTW, is it really a selection of H. cybister, being a pure species instead of being a hybrid?

Thank you for help.

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joshy46013

I've read that it is self-fertile but it doesn't produce many seeds!

I do agree that it is H. cybister but I believe it to be a cross between two wild collected forms or a very robust form of H. cybister.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 11:39AM
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haweha

I concluded, from a French WebSite, that "Chico" and "Reggae" are both selections of H.cybister. Both were "bred" and "selected" by Fred Meyer respectively, and another WebSite, the "Emaryllis" Page, suggest that "Chico" is (a clone of) the spcies Amaryllis while "Reggae" be a hybrid, BUT without any indication of the "other parent".

"Chico" as well as (my clone of) H.aulicum v.robustum were not self fertile INDOORS. (But they would produce lots and lots of seeds if pollinated by other DIPloid Hippeastrum, "Chico" produced approx. 25 seeds per seed pod) My Seedlings of H.aulicum from seeds from Brasil were almost self sterile indoors, too.

But all Hippeastrums named above proved self fertile OUTDOORS. However, the number of seeds per seed pod from "Chico" was very low; 6 to 10 viable seeds. Now, I have a box with 20 "good" seedlings. Regrettably they are still small, bcz I neglected them in 2009-2010. Actually I had stored them in a cold storage room and not given ANY care for two seasons and they would survive even though. Btw: You can hardly do this to TETraploid Seedlings, they will pulverize after 1 y or less

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 11:46AM
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helike13(7a)

Really?

Does indoor/outdoor growing affect fertility?

When you put them outdoors, hand-pollination or insect pollination did occur?

What about sibling fertility?

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 4:36PM
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haweha

These were all hand pollinated. Outdoors, pollination by insects must be considered, But generally my Dips would, when outdoors, bloom at unusual times (during summer) and there had in fact no other possible pollen donor present at that time, "Chico" (only several bulbs of this one clone bloomed at the same time)

As to the 8 seedlings of H.aulicum, indeed, I cannot exclude some pollination through the siblings via insects. However, for the first scape there had not been an other source of pollen nearby.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 4:58PM
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helike13(7a)

Some more questions: If I want them to flower outdoors, should I store the bulbs in a cool place during the whole winter?

If so, how many Celsius will be fine? Just above zero?

Isn't the vegetative period from May to September too short for them when grown outside?

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 4:10AM
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haweha

You could delay forcing, by storing at 4deg Celsius, although I do not recommend that. Note, that seed production is most likely from bulbs that are well-established. Force early, (from October on) the substrate temperature at 24deg Celsius (Heat from below) at a bright place, then transfer the pots outdoors in May (at a location protected from rain, and don't forget to spray onto the bulb and the substrate surface with a longlasting insecticide in order to protect from the Narcissus Bulb Fly) - the sudden temperature drop will stimulate the elongation of new scapes in the bulb, The scapes will emerge from the end of July on, on bulbs in full leaves, this looks pretty.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 4:31AM
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helike13(7a)

So they rebloom in July? I put them outside every year, but they don't rebloom for me.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 5:01AM
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haweha

They only rebloom, if you had, beforehand, provided them with good "husbandry" Check whether:
- they had just had the time! to re-mature. If had you forced them in February or later then this is pretty much too late for achieving summer-rebloom
- you provided enough heat particularly from below = you kept the bulb and its roots warm
- you provided lukewarm water, regularly.Preferably every opther day, from below, as much as is being absorbed within a short time.
- you provided regular dilute feeding. (0.3 g/L of added salts is safe and perfect, to apply on every water dispensing as suggested above)
- you provided a bright place. Although Hippeastrums don't require overly much - particularly queueing too many Hippeastrums at one windowsill line should be avoided!

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 7:40AM
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helike13(7a)

When I put them outside, sunny or shady place is preferred?

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 7:53AM
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helike13(7a)

I use 6 months Osmocote from March on.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 7:55AM
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haweha

Put them outdoors on a shadowy day. Then the leaves will accustom to unfiltered light. In the longterm, place them at a sunny location. This species tolerates a lot of sun, and the leaves will respond by production of brown pigments.(The most sensible to excess sunlight and prone to severe leafburns are H.aulicum and H.papilio if not some others also)
Don't rely on these semipermeable, granular slow-release fertilizers. Consider that you have no control on the actual rate of release. I assume that for the sake of savety plants are generally under-fed by those, if not ridiculously starved.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 8:08AM
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helike13(7a)

Will they like full sun in the summer from 2PM to sunset?

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 8:40AM
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haweha

They will appreciate it, provided you pray to the mighty Knight-Star-Lily-Creator behind the Firmaments,and FIRMLY promise, that you abstain from further questions that are not truly serious.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 9:08AM
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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)

Helike13 - try reading the FAQ for general growing conditions, pest, etc. May-September seems awful short for zone 7! I'm in Zone 8 and we are frost free March to December (typically). My plants go in late November and come out in March-April. I have strapping leaves on many H. hybrids that are 4 feet long. Even the cybisters are thriving. Please read (but DO NOT REPLY TO the FAQ)!

And...to Hans-Werner...;-)
K

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 8:23PM
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helike13(7a)

I didn't find anything in the FAQ for the sun exposure.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 7:09AM
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joshy46013

Helike :)

H. cybister 'Chico' being a species will act a bit differently than a lot of the hybrids. H. cybister grows in very dry areas with a long dormancy, it's found growing amongst shrubs that shield it from harsh lighting, if you look at many of these species from Bolivia and Argentina they grow ONLY in areas where they're not in direct sun all day such as in crevices of rock, in brush or under trees. It's quite amazing and I have several pictures of a few of the Bolivian and Argentinian species doing just this. H. cybister literally grows in the middle of a thicket of herbaceous shrubs in some areas.

I'm sure the sun in these areas are quite a bit stronger than the sun in Zone 7 but I would keep it in partial shade during the hottest parts of the day with partial full sun the rest.

Josh

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 1:47PM
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haweha

Josh, I assume, that "your" H.cybister were confined to THOSE locations that you pictured, for that simple reason that the other locations would not provide enough WATER (for example if these consisted of impermeable rock).

Here is my "Chico" that they rebloomed, on the roof, under full sun from 2pm (the morning sun was covered by two walls). The only protection was the polyethylene foil from the sides as shown, and from above (against rain). These Hippeastrums were particularly exposed to burning deep-standinmg West sun on a high floor, which was capable of fatally heating up the pot walls, if these were not protected by "tin" foil.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 5:00PM
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helike13(7a)

I'm going to use white pot preventing root-zone overheat.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 6:01PM
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houstonpat(9a)

To prevent root-zone overheat I put the clay pot inside of another plastic or clay pot, or cluster them together so the pots are in the shade of each other.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 6:18PM
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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)

Look at posts from Arif! He has lovely blooms in full sun in Pakistan where the summers are brutal!
Kristi

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 8:43PM
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joshy46013

Hans,

I do think your reasoning makes sense, I also think that the idea of the two clones crossing and creating a much more robust form could apply in this situation as well. I know the elevation is quite high in the natural distribution of H. cybister considering it's found in the Andes.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2011 at 12:34AM
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oleg9grower

I agree with Hans - cybisters like a bright light.
Good advice, Arif.

My Evergreen has grown in full sun, in July of dried leaves in spring, and sat with two leaves to fall. has now grown
scape and is preparing to bloom.

Read in the papers and posts that cybisters like sand substrate.
I would like to know the opinion of experts, as a mixture with a high content of sand, contrary to expectations, long hold moisture.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2011 at 4:03AM
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haweha

I read that drainage be crucial for cultivating H.cybister. I cultivate them in pure coco peat even though, I provide water from below, and I have no failure to deplore.The best advice that I can give, from MULTIPLE EVIDENCE is, to not expose potted Hippeastrums to soaking from RAIN. Instead, protect them accurately, provide SOME water every other day, on hot periodes even daily, but only as much as is being absorbed by the pot within a couple minutes.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2011 at 7:14AM
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haweha

...from BELOW. Keeping the upper portion of the pot bone-dry reduces problems from bulb scale mites / red blotch that otherwise might destroy the bulbs.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2011 at 9:49AM
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oleg9grower

Hans,
Thanks, interesting answer.
As the theme of hybridization and seeds, I have a question about variety Santa Cruz.
His pedigree I could not figure out. I know that he "one of progeny of the late Fred Mayer work".
One parent is certainly a garden hybrid. But the second seems to species, but which one? In Santa Cruz, the flowers are small, but it has a strong aroma. I tried to use his pollen, but
seeds did not receive.I assume that he has a triple set of chromosomes, but these varieties, though with difficulty but sometimes the seeds are given.
I would like to find out what is known about the origin of Santa Cruz, on the number of chromosomes, and ability to obtain seeds from him.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2011 at 9:55AM
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joshy46013

'Santa Cruz' seems in my opinion to be a hybrid involving H. divijulianus but don't expect to find pictures or information about this species as it's not currently in cultivation. I can only express by the pictures I have it seems that it is indeed a parent in this creation as it's incredibly similar!

H. divijulianus is a Bolivia Hippeastrum from the Andes Mountain Range, it's a beautiful red trumpet shaped and scented Hippeastrum. I would share the pictures but they're currently being published in a book on Bolivian endemics.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2011 at 4:01PM
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oleg9grower

Thanks Josh,
For me any information on this matter is valuable, if anything else will know - please please:)

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 3:56PM
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hippeastrumadmirer(5)

Would chico work for crossbreeding if I crossed it with h. dutch belle or any other large flowering variety for that matter?

    Bookmark   November 1, 2011 at 1:01PM
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haweha

Try "Chico" preferably as the SEED parent ("mother")
DIP x TET works sometimes;
TET x DIP is rather unlikely at least I was never successful.

The best suggestion is IMHO, to crossbred "Chico" with H.papilio. You can crosspollinate in either direction. With H.papilio as "mother" you might obtain 140 seeds per pod. These hybrids look very exotic and they are very attractive. Contrary to the presumption, they should +/- look alike, the variation is conspicuous, and makes the whole project even MORe attractive

    Bookmark   November 1, 2011 at 3:56PM
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