Advice Please! ASAP...For papilio Bulb.

aveo5December 2, 2011

1. I just got my 'Evergreen' bulb from ParkSeed Comp. It is enormous! This is a 'miniature amaryllis? 32cm around,rock hard,and well..just huge! Thats only $6.98! WOW! and this is a miniature amaryllis?

2. This is my problem...My Papilio that I got from EBay, from a seller that was highly recommended on here, is the problem. It is firm, and looked ok, until I saw the bottom.

It is obvious that at least 8 bulblets have been removed..ok..no big problem, BUT it left a 2 BIG 'dents' in the bulb, one on each side. So the bottom is now shaped like a fat 'T', right where the roots are growing from the bulb. It is a forced bulb, so a flower stalk is hopefully going to peek out soon,IF I plant it...I have a complaint into the seller now.

BUT here is the big problem that I dont know what to do. One side has 4 layers of the white living tissue...the 'layers' (sorry I dont know the correct name), 4 layers right above the place where 3-4 bulbs were removed has been ripped off. About 1/4 the height of the bulb, from the root up. It will be in the soil when/if planted. And it is covered in a powdery residue, that I is some kind of anti fungal powder to prevent rot. But is this bulb going to rot like an old fish the minute it hits soil and water? I am VERY concerned. Do I have a reason to worry?

My other Papilio that i bought from another seller on EBay is just perfect! But this one was suppose to be 32cm...it is 22cm...and it has all this damage, that I dont know if it will kill the bulb, or will it heal over where the layers were ripped, and not be an issue?

So..is having the bottom come to a fat 'T' instead of the normal bulb shape ok? And what about all those living layers that were ripped off from the bulb, above the bulblets that were pulled off it. I have a feeling it will just rot the minute it hits soil and gets watered. Am I wrong or right? I am asking for a replacement...or refund. I am waiting for a reply. But will those ripped off rot on me? Or am I worrying over nothing? Do I have a rot issue coming? Or am I ok? Advise would be GREATLY appreciated.

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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)

Plant it so that it just sitting with the bottom part in the soil. Don't put the part that you are concerned about in the soil.

When you water...water around the bulb, don't water the bulb. PERSONALLY...without seeing a photo...I don't think you have anything to worry about yet! If those bulblets had roots, they took them off but it's a good indicator that your mother bulb should give you many little babies in the future.

It is smaller than advertised and that should be your complaint. Those torn layers will dry up and just become the outside, but they will trap extra water, etc, so be careful not to fill them with water.

Someone on the list posted a bulb with massive machete damage last year, and it was fine...you just have to be aware and careful.

The trick is to know what you are dealing with and you'll be fine...the bulb will too. Now...Papilio can be finicky bloomers, so don't get too stressed if it doesn't bloom right away like the hybrids do.
:-)
K

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 7:07PM
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aveo5

Ok. The 'ripped' layers are right at the root line. So they HAVE to go into the soil. Or the bulb is 100% out of the soil, except the roots? No choice, I have to plant the part that has the ripped layers, or lay it on its side at a 90% angle. The rips and where the bulbs were, is covered in what I assume is anti fungal powder, and it is dry now,but it wont stick once water hits it, I assume? I have been told I am getting a new bulb sent to me tomorrow, I got a big apology from the seller. She was shocked to hear this happened. Time will tell if I get one in 3-4 days. The removed bulb area is healed, and tiny roots have started at the point they came off. A few. But the ripped layers will be under the soil.

I grow the Papilio, I have for like 15 years. In my garden they thrive on neglect. Grow like weeds, in pots, but we had a wet few month this year, so I think that rotted the BIG bulb I had, after it bloomed 2 times. So loosing that BIG bulb, I wanted to restock with new bulbs, and repot my other big bulbs.
So I know how to grow them, but I have never had a bulb with ripped layers, I dont know how to deal with that issue. And the bottom now looks like a fat 'T'. Thats ok? Since so many bulbs were removed and the layers ripped off. So...the ripped layers,planted in soil,as long as I dont overwater, might be ok? Should I dust with rooting hormone??? Or dont bother?

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 7:37PM
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dondeldux

Aveo,

I sure wish you could post a picture of this injury. Another thing that you can do and I am trying this now on a bulb that is totally dried up and no roots yet is (and you can do this too with your bulb which other than the damage should be healthy) is to leave the soil line down an extra inch in the pot and just moisten the soil and then just sit the bulb on top of the soil not buried at all. So after several days you can pick the bulb up without disturbing anything and moisten the soil just a bit if you need to and set the bulb back down again. Make sure that the area you are suspicious of is always dry..if you don't have captan on hand just use cinnamon (it will smell good anyway). When the area has totally healed and dried up and you can see nubbins of roots showing on the bottom.. then you can add more soil around the top and that will bury it a bit in the soil

If you want to take a Qtip and carefully dab with rooting hormone you can, but I don't think it is really necessary. As for all the bulblets that were ripped off, that was kind of stingy for the seller to do this to all of them..a few left on would have gone a long way to please the customer. As for the dents left in the bulb due to the removal of the bulblets, don't worry about that as the dents should be dry.

Last year I received a bulb that had a huge harvesting gash in it that went in about 3/4 of an inch. Although the gash was dried, I was a bit upset that they sent me that particular bulb at full price. I sent them a picture of the bulb with a tape measure stuck in the gash and they apologized and promptly sent me another bulb at their cost. The bulb was planted and was and is fine but I don't think the affected area was as low as yours.

Let us know what you decide to do and hopefully you will get a new bulb and this one will survive for you also. Just remember Ebay sellers don't like bad feedback so they most often go out of their way to make things right. (most often)

Donna

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 8:34PM
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dondeldux

Aveo,

I located those pictures and as you can see my gash went in many layers, more than I remembered. And, you can see that the bulb had totally dried. I just went to check on this bulb and I guess in this case since it had totally healed, I did plant it below the soil line and it was fine. Don't know how this injury compares to yours, but the key is how dried the wound is..

Donna

someone advised me to cut the top piece off and I did and it went in far deeper than it looked.This particular bulb did not bloom for me last year, but the replacement did. I am expecting a bloom from this one soon!! It has had it's rest and is sending up 3 new leaves and it is huge!!

Hope we all have been able to help you...

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 8:55PM
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kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)

When I clean up bulbs I've ripped white layers off to get to a clean layer....and have not had any problems. Again, without a photo, I thought they were up a bit. I'd let the bulb dry for a couple of days and then plant just the littlest bit...just over the basal plate. Again...and I know someone else on the list who cleans cleans cleans HER bulbs...it doesn't seem to cause any issues as long as you are careful and keep an eye on it. I'd be tempted to bury the bulb deeper as soon as you can since NFB will burrow into the basal plate to lay their egg! Yup...1 stinking egg equals one hungary/well fed larva! YUK!
K

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 9:03PM
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aveo5

Well I dont know what 'NFB'bugs are. But I planted it a few hours ago,and i did plant it below the ripped layers. It looks like your cut one Donna in that last picture, but not that DEEP of damage. It was 4 ripped layers, but it looked like that. The ripped layers were dried and had that powder on it.

I am getting a new one, the seller was very upset about this, and says she sent me a new one last night, the email was timed at 2am! Eastern time, same as me. She was upset to find out that her supplier took the bulblets off! Let alone that I was sent a damaged bulb. She told me she personally picked out a NEW big fat bulb that just came over from Holland.

And she refunded me all my money to! I told her not to,but she did. I cant post pictures no matter how many times I try, I never get them posted. All I get is a line of numbers and letters from Photo bucket. No picture. I gave up trying.

Well I figure it will either rot, or live, and i will know in a few weeks, or less. I planted my new 'Evergreen' bulb to. Lord that bulb is massive! This bulb should put out 5 stalks of blooms! This is a miniature amaryllis? Wow! Cant tell it from the bulb I got. Best $7 I spent. I am tempted to buy 3 more,but not seeing one in person,I dont know if they are THAT green and THAT unusual....is it?

I also repotted all my Papilios that I had. I couldnt decide if I should pull apart the 4 good sized bulbs that were in the pot with 4 more 'baby bulbs nearly as big. VERY potbound! Or pot it up into a bigger pot.

So after I unpotted it, it was SO root bound I dug around the sides, and one bulblet that is about 10cm around, was buried half way down,it just popped off with a good tug, and I planted it on its own, and the big clump into a huge clay pot, after roughing up the roots, you know, getting them out of a round and round condition, so they would spread out in the new soil.

Did I do a good thing, or no?
I thought it was less tramua to the bulbs, and maybe now that it has some root room, it will grow and bloom come spring. The label says it bloomed in March of this year. So I am hoping for a March blooming spree! I always put the bloom dates on the pot tag. Each pot is a different month,March, June, and January.

So...should I have pulled them apart? Or was it better to pot them up in fresh soil like I did?

    Bookmark   December 3, 2011 at 8:09PM
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dondeldux

Aveo,

I have done the same thing with a large clump..planted the entire clump in a much larger pot. I think yours will be just fine. Papilios as well as other bulbs are gorgeous in clumps in large pots..I think you did the right thing. When you pull them apart they take a big setback since you disturb the roots..this is just my opinion though..but I think it is better to have one large group rather than 4 or 5 single pots! Again, just my opinion...

I'm glad the EBay seller is going to do the right thing..I kind of thought she would..as I said most of them are very careful and most times will try and do the right think in a case like this..Their feedback is very important to them..

Good Luck and try again to learn to post pictures. I use Picasa so I can't help you, but most others use Photo bucket like you do. Are you previewing the message? In the original message all that will show is the URL (numbers) the picture won't show up until you actually preview the message before you send it. Keep trying..it took me forever to figure it out too..

Donna

    Bookmark   December 3, 2011 at 9:00PM
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johnsonm08(5a)

For Photo Bucket use the HTML code. Click on it next to your pic and it will show "copied"--then just paste it into the message window.
Mike

    Bookmark   December 3, 2011 at 9:12PM
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joshy46013

Removing the offsets is a normal procedure before the bulbs are sold, you're paying for one bulb, sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll leave one on but they should've been more observant of the condition after removing the offsets. Usually the damage wont cause too many issues if it's aloud to dry out properly and treated with a fungicide (which is probably what the powder you've found is).

I think I know what kind of damage you're talking about, when removing larger offsets they can leave these areas but if the offsets are held on too long they can also trap material in between the bulbs causing rot as well.

Also, your 'Evergreen' I doubt will send up five scapes, three probably, maybe two. 'Evergreen' has miniature blooms but the plant overall is quite large and vigorous, it is by no means small. The pictures of the blooms are quite accurate, I think they look pretty "in-ordinary" and they're the greenest you'll find.

I looked on Park Seed and they're 10.95 but that is still a great deal, I wonder how you got it for so cheap, luck you ;)

For your H. papilio (species names are always in lowercase) I would have left them in a clump (for aesthetic reasons) like Donna suggests but I don't think separating it will be traumatic for the blooming sized bulb if you didn't do too much damage to its roots. Keeping them in a large clump and moving them too larger pots will create a wonderful show during bloom times.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2011 at 10:02PM
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aveo5

Well my EverGreen is just so huge, for a 'miniature', I was being funny, saying it should put out 5 flower stalks. I know it wont. I bought it when it was on sale I guess. The sale must be over, and they are back to the regular price. I THINK i bought it on 'Cyber Monday'...so maybe it was a 1 day sale. Guess i got lucky. i will stay with the one bulb,and wait for bulblets to appear for free!

I kind of thought i did the right thing with my big clump of my Papilios. I have or will have 3 new blooming size and forced bulbs of Papilio as soon as my replacement arrives,and 2 others I bought. From 2 other sellers. I am hoping one will be the 4 bloom variety. So my big clump is in a nice big clay pot,14in I think,out of a 10in, as long as our cold spells hold off for a few more weeks, last year we got hit with 3 days of 30's here in Ft.Laud. on Dec 12-15th, which was very unusual,...we usually get our 3 days of cold weather in January. Big deal.

So..if I get a few weeks of warm weather to wake the bulbs up,and get the clump to grow into its new soil some, then i will be set. I can/will bring them all in the house if it hits below 50,to keep them growing and alive.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 2:28PM
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dondeldux

Aveo,

If I were you I think I would plant the papilio bulb (the one that gives you 3 or 4 flower) in a separate pot. I think this one is a bit different than your others and may be noticeably different if they bloom simultaneously in the same pot. It will clump up soon I'm sure. I think I know which papilio bulb you are referring to and I have seen the picture and it is a bit different though no less lovely. The others in all likelihood will be the same or very similar. Just a suggestion...If you've already planted them, I'm sure it won't be too difficult to pull that one out and you can replace it with the replacement that you are expecting.. Like I said this is just a suggestion..

Donna

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 2:52PM
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joshy46013

The papilio that holds four flowers I'm guessing is papilio "Improved" which is a hybrid containing papilio. I would pot this separately too.

Most of the time H. papilio "Improved" is one of the H. cybister types, I think H. 'Lima' or 'Jungle Star'.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 5:58PM
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dondeldux

Josh,
He may have bought one of those papilios from GreenTreasures (M) that she is still selling..it's a papilio from the cut flower market bred for putting out 3 or 4 flowers. It looks basically the same as our traditional papilios but, it is a bit different. Take a look, there is one going off tonight...just a guess and of course I may be mistaken...

Donna

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 7:48PM
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joshy46013

Donna,

I got one of those from GreenTreasures *Maria :)*, it is for sure a hybrid but with what I'm not sure, I'm assuming something trumpet shaped. It's quite beautiful.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 7:54PM
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dondeldux

Josh,
Did it bloom for you yet? When it does, could you post a picture? Thanks, Donna

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 9:13PM
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joshy46013

It has bloomed for me, I didn't take a picture and I sent it to the International Bulb Societies gardens. I'm sorry Donna :(

I can assure you tho that it's a hybrid with a trumpet shaped flower that is most likely white in order to give H. papilio the dominating traits. I would suggest 'Amputo'.

Josh

    Bookmark   December 4, 2011 at 9:15PM
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aveo5

Donna. I am HOPING that all these new Papilios that I have bought...and now waiting to get, that maybe 1 or more will be the variety that puts out the 4 blooms on a bloom stalk. Instead of the normal 2 that the 'original' Papilio puts out. I dont know if any will have the 4 blooms or not. I would be thrilled to get 2 bloom stalks per bulb, that have 2 blooms per stalk. I am suppose to get the replacement bulb today, i am waiting its arrival now. Then i have 2 more coming from across the country. So..i dont know if any or all have 4 blooms per stalk,or are the original 2 blooms per stalk.

My big clump is an 'original' type, and it has the 2 blooms per stalk,and it always bloomed 2 times a year. It is where I lost the one huge bulb I had,I took it out of the pot, and peeled it down to firm layers, removed all the rot, and it seems to be firm and it has some roots, so it might live and grow. But I planted it all alone just incase. And took the bublets from it, and put them into another pot. They are small,at least 2 years from blooming.

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 5:39PM
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dondeldux

Aveo,

In the past two years I have purchased 5 papilios, 4 from Ebay, different vendors, and one from a local nursery. They were all the regular type (one has yet to bloom) with two flowers per stalk. I was hoping for perhaps a different strain with which I could pollenate one another. I tried many times since last year I had at least 10 flowers from my various papilios and I put the pollen on everything I could plus each other. I only ended up with a few seeds from a couple of crosses, and on one I use my "coctail method" again. So, maybe you'll get lucky and get the 3 or 4 flowers per stalk that you wish, but I kind of doubt it. But no matter, you'll have lots of lovely flowers..(I lost one pot with 4 bulbs to the NBF) Hope you get what you want.. You should learn to post pictures if you don't already know so you can share your flowers with us when they bloom. We all want to see you monster Evergreen when it blooms!!

Donna

    Bookmark   December 5, 2011 at 7:40PM
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joshy46013

Aveo,

Currently there is not a 4 flowered H. papilio but you can find Hippeastrum 'Lima' or 'Jungle Star' that is a cross between H. papilio and H. cybister and has quite a bit more flowers per scape. Those hybrids hold the same color patterns as H. papilio but the "butterfly" segments are not nearly as beautiful.

There is also this 'papilio Improved' which seems to be nothing more than a different clone, it still only has two flowers per scape as in all H. papilios but it blooms more freely?

Maybe one day a papilio with 4 flowers will be discovered, that would be an incredible accomplishment! I have seen a papilio with 3 flowers but it only bloomed that way a few times, must have been a genetic issue?

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 10:58AM
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