I am posting these pictures for Aveo who just sent them to me and as he said they were taken tonight. Please respond!
Donna, I'm not expert but I have had some bulbs splitted like that in the past. My case, however, the bulbs were cracked in their pots, by themselves and I just ignored the fact and let them be.
Nothing happened to them. I think mother nature take care of them well that they cracked but no outside invaders could come thanks to other layers.
I might be wrong, but that's my case.
I feel the same way, they do this from time to time and it really causes few problems!
As for your scape, the flowers inside may have been incredibly small or haven't developed. There is possible hope, just let it grow and hope for the best!
This is Aveo5...Donna did this wonderful favor for me...If you read MY other posting below,about this bulb, these layers have gone from hard and not rotting yesterday when it arrived, to now rotting and i dont know if I pull off the rotting layers, let it dry a few days or more?? Or plant it with the rotting layers on it? The bulb under the 3 rotting labels is hard and not rotting. And the basal plat/roots are ok as well Opinions?
I forgot to ask if I should let those layers rot off, THEN plant, or pull them off gently, then plant, or cut them off and leave a tiny bit right above the roots and let that part dry up, then plant??? OR plant it with the rotting layers? Under those 3 layers is black rot, it doesnt show but it is black under the first 2 layers, but they are still attached to the bulb, cant see the third one yet,if it is rotting to.
Opinions? IF I return it, I loose a lot of my money, and no replacement bulb! Ebay..I'll tell the sellers name soon.
I would have cleared the bulb from rotting roots soaked in a systemic fungicide (benlate, fundazol ...) dry and placed in a clean perlite in a clear plastic cup. Watering from the bottom.
My opinion after seeing your bulb is to carefully peel off the rotting parts,(you might want to document this with pictures if you find the rot goes in further than you suspected) pull off all dead roots, either soak in a systemic fungicide as Oleg stated or liberally dust with captan and let the bulb sit in a dry place for a couple of days. When you plant, I would for now, let it sit on top of the soil..being very careful not to get any part of the bulb wet, and pray....
I would peel away the 3 outter layers until you get to an intack white/green layer. This isn't a case of the bulb splitting...this is phyical damage. And note, right under the top layer...the dreaded interior brown layer. I don't know why this happens, and it occurs without any evidence of a prior scape, but more often than not, it can rot, and thus introduce a mushy mess inbetween layers. Get rid of those top 3 layers. Yes, the bulb will be smaller, but it will plump up with TLC!
Well....its done. i dont have any anti-funal powered or liquid...so..I looked at the bulb last night, and gently took off the rotting layers,turns out its 2 layers,not 3. The bulb is nice and hard, I took off the 2 rotting layers, and left like 1/8in around the bottom, and let it dry till today. THEN today what did I find? A second bloom stalk peeking out!!!
It is still 19cm around with the 2 layers taken off, I put two tiny 1/4in cuts around the neck to 'loosen it' to give the leaves/new bloom stalk some room, to lesson the splitting around the neck, the next layer in the picture is splitting at the neck. I think it is just so fat inside from these flower stalks! So i potted it up is VERY fast draining soil, 50% deep. There is the tip of leaves starting as well.
So..I soaked the roots for like an hour, pulled off anything that came off without pulling hard, spread out the roots in a new 10in clay pot, and it is out in my yard wit hall the bulbs, including my other new 'Green Dragon' bulb, that has a bloom stalk peeking out of it!
So I have 2 'Red Lions' from Target with 2 bloom stalks each,and leaves, 1 enormous 'Evergreen' bulb starting to swell at the top, bloom stalk coming up?, MY old Papilios in 3 seperate pots, bulblets, and 1 huge pot of my Papilios, 2 Papilios from another seller, including the first one that arrived all ripped from having the bulblets taken off the bottom and made the bottom the shape of a V, and ripped up to the neck almost. But didnt rot, she sent me a good replacement bulb, it is dormant and i am waiting for it do wake up now.
The first Papilio from this second seller, that has a 2in tall bloom stem already, and THIS 'second bulb' I bought from him. That he wont replace and i am not going to return, its a spin of the luck wheel, now that I see a second bloom stem starting, and it is so big and firm, it is planted and staying. It either lives or dies, but when I saw that bloom stalk peeking out this morning, I said its staying. And the new Green Dragon that arrived yesterday,with a bloom stalk peeking out of it, and teh first one from that seller, that arrived soft and sad looking. It might grow, it might not. But I have 2 Green Dragons now. Thats it.
I have 1 more Papilio due to arrive. IF I EVER hear from that seller. I am getting ticked at them.
So..I have a yard full of pots and bulbs in various stages of waking up from 'cold storage', and dormantcy. There was no more rot on THIS bulb, it is so big, and that second bloom stalk made me decide to keep it. I am going to keep it on the dry side, after its first watering. It is half way out of the soil, I'll watch it carefully, and thats it for bulbs, fo now. I wish I had an antifungal to add to water , and water them all, but I dont. So...if any rot, they rot, but I think I did good, with all your help, they are alive and i will impose on Donna again in the future,:) when the Papilios bloom,or grow...so everyone can see what i get out of these bulbs.:) The 'Paps' and the 'Green Dragon' and the 'Evergreen'.
There you go Aveo, You've finally got things under control..sit back and enjoy your flowers. The only thing I think I would have done differently would have been to not pot this last papilio quite so deep, I never even pot a seemingly healthy bulb "50%" but that is your choice. I will be glad to post any future pictures for you in the future...and I'm glad we were all able to help you.....!
Most pot up to the shoulders or about 3/4 the bulb, I think Veronica Read recommends this as well BUT I think if it were to be higher it would be healthier. I keep my bulbs 25-40% planted and they usually pull themselves down farther and when I repot I pull them back up, do you have any advice to keep them where it should be (or we think it should be, hehe)!
No, You're right Josh, they do tend to pull themselves down in the soil. This winter as some of them are starting to re-sprout and send up a scape or leaves I find myself wondering how they got so far down and I'm actually dumping off about 1/3" of the top soil which seems to just lay loosely on the top. But when I have had a case of top layer rot (like Aveo's) I always tend to plant on the high side. And since my bulbs are top watered when outside for the summer, I like to think that the bulb itself dries out quickly..that's just me though...
I have a Siren that wasn't doing too well this summer and it had several leaves that indicated that there were two bulblets under the soil. So I suspected NBF and when I pulled it out of the soil this fall for inspection, I was amazed to see the basal plate was at least 1" think. But because there were 3 bulblets, 2 of which are good sized that were attached to the basal plate, I couldn't trim it which would remove the roots. So, I replanted it totally out of the soil with the 1" basal plate in the soil and the bulb actually totally up in the air. The bulblets are out of the soil too. Looks ridiculous, but I didn't want to loose even one of the bulblets. I'm hoping it will grow this way another year and then I can remove the bulblets and trim the plate.
I really loved Siren, but it only bloomed once and I don't think it will bloom this season, but if is does, it will surely look silly the way I've got it situated.
Do you know how I can get my bulb from being pulled beneath the soil? I like to keep as much room for roots as possible!
I recently found something called "Rhizome Clips" but I don't know how well they'd really work?
I thought 50% deep was to high as it is. It has been my experience that Papilios at least,dont get pulled down, hey come UP out of the soil. The big clump of my 'old' Papilios that I repotted, all the bulbs are now about 50% out of the soil, they were 25% out of the soil to start. The one bulb that I lost, that started my buying frenzy of all these Papilios had itself 90% out of the soil,but it had bloomed 2 times this past spring/summer, then it just got mold all over it, and died! First time ever in all the years of growing Papilios.
I have even saved THAT bulb, after taking off like 3 layers covered in rot, and washed it off, and planted it all alone,so it doesnt infect any other bulb. So far it is just sitting there, but it has gone from a huge bulb, to the size of a small egg, and from a bloomer, to nearly a bulblet. But I am trying to save all my old Papilios. So if it dies, it dies, but so far, it was a mess, and it is now a firm small bulb,and I am waiting for growth.
I could always pull UP this bulb,in the pictures, I just planted it, so nothing has put out roots yet. And make it 3/4ths out of the soil....should I?
If you've had good experience in the past with your bulbs being where they are then I'd say you're fine BUT I would. ;)
H. papilio is epiphytic in nature (like many orchids), I'm not surprised it pulls itself higher. My papilio are planted right on top of the soil, it hasn't budged! I plan to try it epiphytically in the spring!
Josh, No, I don't have any idea as to how to stop them from pulling into the soil..I guess we plant them as we'd like and they take it from there. When re-potting I have another chance to set them higher, but as I said, it's mainly to keep the bulbs dryer in the summer as I top water when they are outside..I like to think that the bulbs dry out more quickly. When I do find small areas of rot it is usually at the bottom of the bulb at the basal plate. Easy to cure when you notice it in time.
As for Aveo's bulb, where there has been a rot issue to begin with (even though he is sure he got it all) I agree with you and I would still start it out higher. If you leave an 1 & 1/2" or so at the top of the pot you can always add soil later if it makes one feel better..(I think we should just ask the bulb!) ;-)
That is some great advice ;)
Well I think I take your advise, I will pull this Papilio out of the soil, and put it 3/4ths out of the pot. Its only been in the pot for 2 days. I read somewhere on here about someone trying to tie a Papilio onto a plank of cork? I thought that was very odd for an amaryllis bulb. I have never heard of this bulb being an epiphyte...only heard that used for air plants and bromeliads/orchids. Well in the morning, I will unpot that bulb,and put it back in much more shallower.
I assume the reason you find it odd is because you haven't done much reading on the genus of Hippeastrum. There is a lot of information about Hippeastrum on wikipedia, this is a quote from the paragraph under "General".
"Some species are epiphytic (H. calyptratum, H. aulicum, H. papilo and H. arboricola) and need good air circulation around their roots."
I think it's really important to read as much as you can about these plants and their native environments to grow them as good as you can!
Well I pulled up THIS bulb last night. So it is about 90% out of the soil...no rot showing! YES! The other Papilio that I have that has a 1in bloom bud showing, I assume has new roots now,so i dont think I should move it. I can take soil out of the pot, to expose more of the bulb if it is that importnat. It is now 50% out of the soil, about all the bulbs are.
This seems unusual,because the 'native' or common amaryllis here in Ft.Lauderdale, the one that grows here with no care or trouble, that blooms in spring, they are red with I think white stripes in the middle,are totally BELOW the soil,no bulb showing at all. Then the leaves come up after the blooms die, and still no bulb shows.
My grandmother use to have hundreds of them in her yard,and they would bloom every spring, no leaves, then the blooms died and the leaves came up,and then in the fall, they died, and it repeated this every year. And no bulb ever showed at all. They just kept putting out bulblets and the patch of amaryllis kept growing. So that is why this putting a bulb on cork, or planting them like this, seems so odd.
But, I am determined to get my papilios and green ones to grow.
That story about your grandmother is beautiful, thanks for sharing it!
There are no Hippeastrum bulbs native to Flordia or the US for the matter, they were at one point put there by man. Also, that bulb that you mention I can almost assure you is a hybrid and probably H. xjohnsonii which is a cross between H. vittatum and H. reginae which are both terrestrial plants.
Hippeastrum papilio is much different being a natural species from Brazil found growing in tress in the Atlantic Forest. When found growing on the ground they usually grow in leaf litter with little anchorage. These plants handle growing in soil well and even bloom but I would assume the bulbs grown in a light mix like an orchid mix would grow much better.
Just a repost of my prefered method of growing H. papilio.
Pat, how long did it take to offset like that!?!? WOW
That's about 2 years. I find paps a little fussy in pots and subject to rot in the ground. On boards or in baskets it get no bugs and absolutely no rot. They don't dry out as much as you might think either. Even with our record breaking drought this summer. Sure the moss gets dry, but the bulbs stay plump with no leaf loss.
hi Josh/. Well i called them 'native' to Fla. Becuase when my family moved here in 1976,my grandmother had these amaryllis in a huge garden,dozens and dozens of them. And it seemed most gardens in Ft.lauderdale seemed to have them, always in the dozens-hundreds.
Now I only see 1 garden with them in it, and every spring they bloom, a for a few weeks, the up come the leaves for the rest of the year, and then late fall/winter, there is nothing showing...then it starts all over again. So i assumed they were some kind of native.
Gram has been gone for over 10 years and she sold her home 10 years before that,so that amaryllis garden has been gone for over 20 years.
She came to live with me. But it never occured to take any bulbs. I hada few in my yard,but they just faded away or the years. And then we had spider lilies,that has strong fragrance to them,and were soilid white. With her sight almost gone, it was more impotant to have scent than 'looks'/
Please look over my new post.
HoustonPat. Do you get blooms on your Papilios with then on planks like that? Are they the 2 blooms per stem,or 4 blooms per stem? And pictures of them in bloom?
There are Hymenocallis "Spider Lillies" native to Flordia but as much as I would LOVE it, Hippeastrum aren't.
Hippeastrum x johnsonii, according to your description, is a beautiful hybrid that is quite scented but probably not as much as Hymenocallis species. A reason it was probably gone over winter is the dormancy period, many Hippeastrum if planted in the ground will have a dormancy period. Your bulbs might have perished because they were planted so far into the ground, they benefit from being divided and raised every so often or they can quit blooming.
Pat's H. papilio has bloomed on the bored and I expect it to be a HUGE show once the offsets are large enough which seems like it should be SOON! I have never seen a papilio seem as happy as it is in Pat's hands, it truly loves epiphytic nature, now I can envision how happy it is in habitat!
i never had that red amaryllis in my yard. My grandmother did. And I USE to see it on nearly evey yard in Ft.Lauderdale. I guess it went out of 'fashion'. I dont recall any scent to them. But that is over 25yrs ago. There is only one house I see that has like 3 round big groups of them, around palm trees. They look so nice.
I know they are dormant in the winter,thus nothing shows above ground. The 'Hymenocallis' smell incedible, and I use to have a nice big clump of them in the ground, but after a Hurricane Andrew, they never came back up, and I never planted any more. I think they rotted from all the rain, the ywere at the low point of the yard.
I should get some more, they are cheap enough. But I am hoping to get a few 'donations' of a few freebie bulbs from a fellow gardener, online...hint hint:). I am broke now, from buying gifts for everyone,and the Papilios and other bulbs for myself as gifts.
When gram moved in,she didnt dig up the amaryllis and put them in my yard, so they sold with the house. My yard has plumerias,orchids, and golden chalice plants and gardenias,in bloom now, and year round. So I have scents nearly every month. Now once I get my Papilios growing and blooming, and my green ones going, I will have 'odd' colors to:)