Scale insects

pllove(Z 9b FL)September 8, 2005

Will my misery end?...Darn hurricanes, lost labels,my daughter dies...and NOW ..the majority of my bromeliads are severly infested with scale!!!! What insecticide do I use? Or should I just toss them ! ????? Peggy

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mistiaggie(z9A Tx)

:( Just seeing your post here Peggy. Don't give up!

    Bookmark   September 14, 2005 at 9:13PM
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bihai(zone 9)

There are only 2 treatments I know for scale on Bromeliads. I know I answered your question by personal email, but will post here in case anyone else can add to.
#1--Cygon 2E is the insecticide of choice. Unfortunately, the "agricultural powers that be" have decided to take this off the market, and it is gone. Unless you have a leftover stockpile you are out of luck. You can try washing the leaves by hand and picking off the visible scales, of course the eggs will hatch out a new generation which you will also have to wash and pick

#2--put your plants "out in the woods" so to speak...to let natural predators have a chance to eat the scale for you. This shouldn't be problematic for you in zone 10 So FL as far as weather goes.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2005 at 8:03AM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

Well..I sprayed all my broms with Orthene,the active ingredient is Acephate and will spray again in 14 days.This was reccomended by someone in Miami,that really knows and likes plants.and then..i guess I will toss the worse and pot up a few to save, and brush with a tooth brush...Sounds like fun,huh !...darn hurricanes..if i wasn't so old.. and could find a place out of Florida for me, my plants,animals and friends...I'd leave!!!!

    Bookmark   September 18, 2005 at 11:05AM
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bihai(zone 9)

Ummmm, well, not to be a spoilsport, but Orthene is DEFINITELY NOT recommended for use on bromeliads (OR ORCHIDS for that matter). The bromeliad society here is adamant about not using Orthene. There is a component in the formula of the ready to mix liquid concentrate that has been known to burn a lot of bromeliads and kill certain genera of orchids. The wettable powder may be okay, if you could find it, but the ready to mix liquid should not be used in broms or orchids, neither should any kind of OIL SPRAY (including Neem or homemade Murphy's Oil SOap concoctions.)

    Bookmark   September 18, 2005 at 9:05PM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

Well..Gee whiz..I guess i might have to ask ,again!If i can find someone that's not too,busy ! People are so hard to come by.... I have so many bromeliads... and they are in the wild...under trees. Sure would hate to lose them! Are you sure about the Orthene?...I had a fancy ,snazzy and very expensive nursery tell me to use it ,too !(they didn't have it in stock)... I'll try to contact a local bomeliad society,too!...I sure don't like using this stuff..because it is so toxic...just trying to get out of a pinch!

    Bookmark   September 18, 2005 at 11:11PM
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bihai(zone 9)

All I am doing is relaying what I have been told by people who are much more knowledgeable than I am about pesticide usage. The negative effect of Orthene on orchids is long standing knowledge. Some can tolerate it (vandas, phals and others with "thick" leaves) but some of the more delicate genera have been known to be killed or go into decline. The culprit is supposed to be a petroleum derivative in one of the components.

I had some gentlemen from my local orchid society come out and tour my greenhouse (twice) and we were discussing this very issue because we had received the news that Cygon 2E was going off the market, and he reiterated to me at that time: NO ORTHENE, NO WAX, NO OILSPRAYS for bromeliads. NOTHING WITH PETROLEUM BASED OR DERIVED INGREDIENTS. NO MALATHION.

I have a friend who grows many many broms and ferns and she is upset about losing Cygon as well, its one of the only pesticides deemed safe for use on ferns.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2005 at 7:56AM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

SO...let's see !! We can all lose our citrus to canker..and NOW we can lose all of our Bromeliads to fly speck scale ???

    Bookmark   September 19, 2005 at 9:12AM
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plantman45(z5 IL Chicago)

ordered a gallon of cygon 2E this morning will let you know if I get it. 51.00 a gallon has to ship commom carrier do not know what cost will be. But if this is the stuff to have I will buy a case.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2005 at 8:45PM
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bihai(zone 9)

Plantman,
I am actually really surprised that they sold you the Cygon, since its off the market for "home garden usage" and is now designated only for "professional nursery usage". Usually that means that they ask for a copy of your grower's permit/nursery license and/or a copy of your pesticide license, depending on the product in question, but if you get it, GOOD GOING! JEEZ though they are sticking it to you, and not just on shipping....enough Cygon to last 6 mos to a year used to only cost about $10-12 when it was for home garden usage!

    Bookmark   September 21, 2005 at 7:12PM
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Minxie(3)

I use a liquid Malathion/Dursban mixture ...never hurt a bromo yet and I have over 200 varieties. The application method is the trick. Plants must be dipped, air dried (about 4-6 hrs)and rinsed. Keep in low light 48 hrs and seperated from plants not infected. Redip in 10 days. Not a method for amateurs by the way.

    Bookmark   September 28, 2005 at 11:27PM
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bihai(zone 9)

If I understand Plove correctly her plants are planted out. I don't think it would be possible for her to dip them. WHy not try an ordinary dishsoap spray to try to smother them? Nothing toxic in that...try to keep it out of the cup... I think that most people have forgotten that kind of simple remedy in favor of pesticides. I have been using it on some alocasias in my house that have mealiebugs and it works well.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 7:18AM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

Well...things still aren't looking too good!...I wouldn't wish scale on the... Devil !This stuff is really bad news!!!I was even told by a grower, to toss them and start over with new stock!!! Geesh!!! I had someone else, recommend Merit..because cygon is so toxic ! I'm just looking at my plants and cry.... I will have to decide one way or the other! The loss is unreal...it is going to be like starting all over again....after many years and plants!The loss and the cost...i'm thinking about all of it!!!!I'm getting old and i'm ,tired! Peggy

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 10:21AM
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bihai(zone 9)

I think Merit is only good for scale when its in its crawling stage, not after it forms the protective covering (but I may be wrong about that) and I don;t think Merit will do anything for the eggs of the next generation. Merit is the same stuff in the flea/tick medicine (like Advantage) for pets...it works by paralyzing the insects mouthparts, so they have to either get a direct hit or bite and suck for it to work. I have tried the Bayer Systemic containing the active ingredient (Imiclopramid...unless I mispelled that) on other types of plants and been VERY UNIMPRESSED.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 11:21AM
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LisaCLV(HI)

I have used Marathon (I believe it is similar to Merit, only in granular formulation) for scale on broms. It is very effective at preventing new infestation for up to 4 months, but it won't dislodge the old ones from your plants, although it does seem to kill them. In fact, the only way I know to remove the bodies of the old ones is to physically remove them by hand. A cotton ball dipped in alcohol makes them come off a lot easier, and will also kill any that are still alive. Works good on mealybugs too.

I know this is a hassle if you have a lot of plants, and especially if they're planted out. The Marathon is easy to use though, just sprinkle it around the base of the plant. It's long-lasting, and one of the safer pesticides to use, but it is also very expensive-- over $100 per (half-filled) gallon container. I can go through about 3 of these every time I treat all my plants, so I tend not to use it as often as I should.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 3:47PM
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bihai(zone 9)

Marathon and Merit are the same thing, as in they both have the same active ingredient, the stuff in Advantage flea killer. I "think" the difference between them is that one is "approved" for the "home gardener" and one is mainly for the professional grower. Both are supposedly costing an arm and a leg! Again I may be in error but I think that's what I remember. You can find, if you are very diligent in looking for it, a couple of products that have the same active ingredient. One I have read about is a "grub" treatment for lawns. I am pretty sure it was a Bayer product. The one specified was the "24 hour grub treatment". Its a granular product that I have never been able to find locally here. There are several grub treatments, but none have the Imiclopramid (sp?)

The other products are liquid treatments that you dilute with water and pour around the bases of the plants. These are both Bayer products....one is the Bayer Systemic Rose treatment. It has a rather low percentage of the actuve insecticide. The other is the same thing but designed for trees and shrubs, its much more concentrated. I have used both on heliconias, gingers, and other plants for mealybugs, and it has not been very effective. I think the reason why is it would take so much to systemically "reach" all the plant....you dose it according to the diameter of the tree trunk, the height of the plant, etc. Some of my heliconias are 20 ft tall, it would take a huge amount to treat them individually, and by "estimating" the dosage, these products just haven't worked for me. I think I am going to have better control with the oil sprays.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 7:15PM
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Minxie(3)

Try digging up a plant from each variety you have and potting and then treat them. when new pups emerge keep them treated for scale seperate as soon as they are large enough. I am surprised that scale is a problem with them planted out. Unless chemicals have been used that killed the natural preditors of scale. If that is so..your have two choices pot and treat or trash them

    Bookmark   September 29, 2005 at 11:18PM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

Well...the 100 pots I ordered are here...and i still don't know what to do!...A tractor and plow sounds nice...but then I'd have to move all of the large rocks..Hmm.. a bulldozer could take the big rocks,too... Darn this sucks!!!

    Bookmark   September 30, 2005 at 1:33PM
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plantsplus(queensland aust)

Are your plants growing in sun? If you do a search on the internet I think you should be able to find an article about a canola oil and soap spray which has been used by a bromeliad grower in Australia who I think is also a chemist. I have spoken to one grower who used it and said it worked fine. The plants must be in a well lit area for it to work. As with any thing if you have a lot of plants it will be a lot of work but I would not do them all - just separate some off and do an experiment and if it works you will have a non toxic cure, if not nothing lost as the mothers will eventually die anyway so use them for your experiments. Good luck

    Bookmark   October 4, 2005 at 2:48AM
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Minxie(3)

Warning Warning! Danger Wlll Robinson!
The one the thing I WOULD NOT USE is any type of of oil on a NEOREGELIA. Especially if your a novice.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2005 at 5:56AM
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bihai(zone 9)

And ESPECIALLY in the sun! Oil sprays of any kind used in the sun or in too hot environment burn leaves.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2005 at 7:27AM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Ditto. No oils of any kind on any bromeliads, it gums up the trichomes and can suffocate the plant. There may be some exceptions I don't know about, but if in doubt, don't try it!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2005 at 1:55PM
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pllove(Z 9b FL)

Well...I think I might need some more pots!..How do you toss plants in the trash..squint and gag ???? So far..the spraying doesn't look like it hurt them!...AND I must be nuttier than a fruit cake...I have my eye on some other bromeliads... Is this normal ?????? I'm only trying to keep 1 or 2 of the plants I have now....

    Bookmark   October 11, 2005 at 10:51AM
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Minxie(3)

Just keep the infected ones away from the new plants or you will have same problem..might need to treat the grounds where infected ones lived ...several times and keep granular insect killers down for extra protection

    Bookmark   October 11, 2005 at 8:58PM
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