What is the name?

splinter1804November 11, 2008

Hi everyone - A couple of years back I was given some seed which was named as Aechmea Lueddemanniana Mend forma Alvarez.

On looking up various sources, my understanding is that Lueddemanniana is the species and Mend is a CV of that species as is Alvarez. So as I see it the seed either came from Lueddemannia, Mend or Alvarez, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

My second question is, what should the seedlings be called, are they all still called Ae. Leuddemanniana or what?

Finally can someone with experience growing these plants give me some cultural tips relating to light requirements as well as heat and cold tolerence.

These plants are growing like mad at present under 50% shade cloth and at this stage some have olive green/brown leaves while others are taking on a pinkish hue. I would dearly like to post some pics but I still haven't had tme to work it out (a very slow learner with computers).

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me, All the best, Nev.

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hotdiggetydam

Mend and Alverez are both cv of Ae.Lueddemanniana. The seed was variable as it was wild collected
Seed Parent: lueddemanniana
Mend cv. of lueddemanniana - (See 'Alvarez', 'Pinkie', 'Blanca Alvarez', 'Rodco' & 'Rodco Inverta') - (Name is derived from (M)Mildred Merkel, (E)Edward Ensign who sowed the seed, (N)Julian Nally who gave the seed to Ensign, and (D)in memory of Ralph Davis) - Albo-marginated in white becoming bright pink-red in good light - hardy and attractive - long lasting first white then shiny purple berries - seedling mutation - open vase-shaped rosette to 18" tall and 24" wide.

Alvarez cv. of lueddemanniana from wild collection - (See 'MEND', 'Rodco', 'Pinkie' & 'Blanca Alvarez') - Tropiflora said, "Slow growing and has a medio-picta variegation - a broad stripe of pinkish orange up the center of each leaf when grown in bright light" - From observation, a variegated upright rosette w/green margins and lineations within the white center - glazed in intense red-orange overall in good light.

    Bookmark   November 11, 2008 at 4:08PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Nev, I suspect the mother of your seedlings was probably Alvarez. I have tried growing seeds from Rodco and gotten nothing but albinos, so I'm 99.9% sure Mend would do the same, being another albomarginate (gotta watch my words now since I'm being challenged on what I say).

Alvarez seedlings would come out looking like plain lueddemanniana, or perhaps lueddemanniana Rubra, since there is some reddish pigment there. Now, it is possible that your your seeds could have come from one of those two, but if that were the case, why would it have that "Mend forma Alvarez" added on? My guess is that whoever wrote that figured that all variegated forms must be cvs. of Mend. For all I know they could be sports of it, but the currently accepted nomenclature is to just use a single cultivar name, in this case Alvarez.

As to what you call the seedlings, that's a good question. Obviously they're not Alvarez or any other cv. for that matter. You'll be correct in calling them lueddemanniana, since that applies to all forms of the species, but if you want to get more specific you might just put A. lueddemanniana (seedling from Alvarez) on the tag, unless someone has a better idea.

I've had the same question about what to call variegates that revert to unvariegated, whether they be species or hybrids. I've often seen people selling, for example, an unvariegated chantinii labelled Samurai. Well, the pup may have come from Samurai, but if it's not variegated you can't call it that, since the variegation is what defines the cv. In that case you can just call it chantinii, but what about a N. Kahala Dawn that has lost its variegation? I generally just write (reverted) after the name on the tag, but there ought to be a protocol for this kind of thing.

    Bookmark   November 11, 2008 at 6:35PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Just had another thought. You could call them A. Alvarez F2.

    Bookmark   November 11, 2008 at 6:57PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Lisa - regards a reverted variegate. Derek has suggested that we use the term 'Novar' eg. N. Kahala Dawn Novar. It's an abbreviation of "no variegation".

K

    Bookmark   November 11, 2008 at 7:36PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Thanks Kerry. I'll go with that, although I have a feeling it will confuse the average plant buyer and probably be considered part of the name. Better to put it in parentheses, I think.

    Bookmark   November 11, 2008 at 11:35PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Yep Lisa - I agree, or a dash at least.

K

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 1:53AM
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splinter1804

Hi to all you helpful people who posted the answers to my questions plus your extra info and suggestions on the Lueddemannia seedlings.

It's realy great to be able to ask a question and get answers from the wealth of knowledge contained by the members of this forum from areas around the world. Ah! - the wonders of modern technology.

Just one more question, for Kerry this time. Kerry do/did you grow this plant and how did it handle the frost?

Thanks once again everyone, all the best, Nev.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 2:02PM
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hotdiggetydam

I am going to order a 'Rodco' from Lisa's neck of the woods if they dont want my arms and legs for it. I like the plant

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 3:46PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

It's a really nice cv, HDD, I think you'll like it better than Mend. Let me know if you ever come across Aurora too. That's high on my wish list.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 7:30PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Nev,
Yes I did and do grow some various forms of Ae. lueddemanniana. THAT frost of July, 2007 in The Channon here was unprecedented and I have to believe will never happen again, at least not in my lifetime. For two long nights in a row the temperature was -8 C. We had experienced very dry conditions preceding it, and the frost got into my treed garden like never before. My garden looked like the holocaust after it. Until then, I could grow the various forms of Ae. lueddemanniana quite easily, and they survived my usual winters where temps would occasionally and briefly get down to -2 C. The surrounding paddocks get occasional light frosts, but the microclimate of my garden usually protects my broms - except for the real tropical ones like Ae. chantinii.

Here are some before and just after photos of some of my lueddemannianas. Prepare yourself for the shock!

Ae. 'Mend' - before.

Ae. 'Mend' - just after THE mother of all black frosts. Hard to recognise, but 'Mend' is the plant in centre (slightly right) of photo. It died - no pups.

Ae. 'Alvarez' - before.

Ae. 'Alvarez' - the brown thing in middle of pic below the water tank, and other broms, after. Also - deady-bones.

I also grew/grow the species lueddemanniana. This pic shows it just after THE frost. It's the brown clump top right of foreground pine.

I took this photo this morning, 16 months after the frost. Surprisingly, the species DID pup afterwards, and now has two healthy plants.

I completely lost 'Mend' and 'Alvarez', but have bought another 'Mend' since then, which sailed through this last winter without a blemish. The recovery of so many broms has been amazing. I completely lost about 20% of my considerable brom collection, as well as many trees, shrubs, and foliage sub-tropical plants.
My garden looks good again now, and these frosted photos above are a sad memory.

So Nev! - the answer to your question is - yes, Ae. lueddemanniana CAN handle light frosts if protected, but not black ones of -8 C!

Cheers,
Kerry

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 7:32PM
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hotdiggetydam

Lisa if aurora is still being grown Florida would be the best bet..The only place I found Rodco is in your area

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 9:02PM
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bromadams(10b)

I recently picked up a small Mend, $6, and an good size Alverez, $25, at a local sale. I'm not sure which I like better. The Alverez is strappy and doesn't have much red yet. Maybe some good winter sun will color it up.

Kerry, was your black frost predicted? Did you have enough of a warning to bring in the potted plants?

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 9:09PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

No Bromadams - predicted temps for each of those nights in our rural district were -1 C. Most of my broms are attached to trees, or growing in mounds on ground - so they always stay put, year in year out. Those potted in my large shade house were the worst affected, to my surprise and dismay. 'Twas to do with its position and the lie of the land. Every brom in there was plugged solid with ice.
Isolated pockets within the district were hit harder than others. We were the unlucky ones. The older locals said they hadn't experienced such damage in "30", "40", "50" years. We are low-lying, by a constantly-running, freshwater creek. Ours is a rain forest area.
Bringing potted plants indoors had never been a consideration before. However, I did spray many of my broms with a supposed frost-repellent product at the beginning of winter this year. Much to my relief, there was no repeat of last year. But nothing will save them in -8C, if left exposed.

Cheers,
Kerry

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 12:56AM
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neomea

ooooh thats not pretty at all Kez!!!!

Bromadams Alvarez takes on a pinky/peachy colour in good sun....

Dennis

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 1:44AM
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splinter1804

Kerry, what was the name of the frost repellent or would naming it breach the rules of this forum?

If so, could you email me the name at mayailsa@bigpond.com

Thanks in advance, All the best, Nev.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 3:26PM
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hotdiggetydam

Spliner the spray products are a polyemer type product and are suppsed to last about 45 days..it gives about a 6 degree protection,
A good quality frost blanket will do the same thing and last many years.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 3:55PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Nev, others mention different products available so I think it's O.K. to do that on this forum.
For us Aussies, there are two polymer sprays available - one is called Envy, the other is Yate's Stressguard. The former is a concentrated mix which needs diluting. The latter is pre-mixed - available at Bunnings, and quite expensive. Envy works out far cheaper - I bought mine at a Mitre 10 outlet. Both products supposedly protect your plants down to -2 or -3C. Frost cloth gives the same protection, but is a pain to have to cover many plants each night, then uncover each morning after.
Richard told me he used frost cloth on some of his alcantareas growing exposed in his garden this last winter, but they still got damaged at -6C.

Cheers,
K

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 6:38PM
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splinter1804

Hotdiggertydam and Kerry - Thanks a lot for the feedback.
All the best, nev

    Bookmark   November 13, 2008 at 9:50PM
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