Does anyone recognize this Neo?

LisaCLV(HI)November 22, 2008

I've had this for about 10-15 years. The person I got it from didn't know if it was a species or a hybrid, but I always had a sneaking suspicion it might be a species because it was the biggest Neo I'd ever seen when I got it, and I couldn't think what its parents would be otherwise. Those are 8" pots they're in, and you can see by Tiger in the background they're in the same size range. It opens up flatter when it blooms and the cup has a deeper pink flush, but not bright red. The ripe berries are red, so if it is a hybrid, that would point to either johannis or cruenta parentage, but it's bigger than either of those species and it's leaves aren't as stiff. The petals are pale blue, and for some reason the inflorescence reminds me of macrosepala, but I don't have a picture of it.

I've never seen Rosy Morn in the flesh, does it look like this? It doesn't seem likely that she would have had that, though. Most of her plants were either wild-collected species or very old hybrids. Any ideas?

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hotdiggetydam

I have one called pink flamingo that is huge and looks like that that has a cruenta parent...I think there are two with the name but the other one doesnt tolerate near the sun the Elmore hybrid does.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2008 at 8:06PM
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bromadams(10b)

I sure wouldn't guess Rosy Morn. Rosy Morn never seems to be so upright and the colors don't match any I've ever seen on Rosy Morn.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2008 at 10:13PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

I agree it doesn't fit with Rosy Morn, which has quite stiff leaves and pink spots underleaf of young plants - which seem to grow out closer to flowering.

Lisa - What it did remind me of is a neo I grow which I bought from the Buchanan nursery several years ago. They did a lot of importing in the early 80s. It is referred to as Neo. cruenta cv. 'Pink Tips'. I have also seen it called Neo. johannis 'Pink Tips'. It also has blue flowers, but I don't remember the colour of the ripe berries. It is also very large, with softer leaves than the species. I grow it around the garden in differing light conditions. In a more shady spot, it is mostly green with pink tips. In morning sun, it flushes pink all over, but with pinker tips, and in really bright light to full sun, it is a slightly darker, brighter pink all over - and naturally more compact.

See photos of this specimen growing in morning sun, afternoon shade.

...And to give you an idea of its size.

Close to yours, Lisa?

K

    Bookmark   November 22, 2008 at 10:46PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Hmmm....... that's a possibility, Kerry, but it's so hard to tell from a picture, especially under different growing conditions. That doesn't look like either a johannis or a cruenta, and I would have thought that 'Pink Tips' applied to one of those would mean 'Foster's Pink Tips', but that clearly isn't the same.

HDD, do you have a pic of Elmore's Pink Flamingo? All I can find on FCBS is Gerry Stansfield's PF, which has kind of a similar look too, as do some of his other hybrids, but that seems pretty unlikely. Maybe that's what put the name Rosy Morn into my head, since that's in the bloodline there, but I'll take everyone's word that that's not it.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 12:29AM
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avane_gw

Lisa, a friend of mine got this Neo Pink Flamingo from Lyn last week. Lyn had the plant growing in the sun and got it from Michael and his description on his list just read : Neo Pink Flamingo (large johannis cv, no mention of the hybridiser).

Japie

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 2:18AM
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bromcrazy(Qld Australia)

Hi Lisa,

I wouldn't dismiss Rosy Morn just yet. As soon as I saw the pic, Rosy Morn jumped into my head as well...

Mine is roughing it in the garden and gets afternoon sun, but there is still something familiar about it I can't quite put my finger on. Younger plants have numerous small red/pink spots around the base of the leaves as Kerry mentioned.

Apparently the Rosy Morn we have in Australia came here as "seed from Morrisonia". Rosy Morn and Morrisonia appear to be interchangeable as I have seen this plant advertised as both. Actually, I have "one of each" and they are essentially the same plant.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 2:36AM
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rickta66(Brisbane)

Lisa,

It looks a little like RedGold which has Cruenta in the family,

I can check if mine is still flowering and put a picture up if you would like.

Rick

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 5:47AM
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hotdiggetydam

Rosy morn and Morrisoniana are not the same plant. I will get a photo today lisa

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 10:02AM
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hotdiggetydam

Here is one photo

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 10:25AM
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bromcrazy(Qld Australia)

Hi HDD,

To clarify my above post - The plants I have labelled as Morrisoniana and Rosy Morn are the same. From what I can glean, Rosy Morn was (incorrectly) referred to as "seed from Morrisoniana" but the name has continued to be used.

Apologies for any confusion there.

I have found a few references to this, one I have linked below. See page 13 of Bromeliaceae VOLUME XLI - No. 2

Here is a link that might be useful: Bromeliaceae

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 5:16PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, but I'm still stumped. I know it's not Red Gold because I have that and this is about twice the size, plus it's more of a clear translucent pink. Looking at the photo of Rosy Morn above I'd scratch that off the list too. I'm also not seeing a match with Flamingo or Pink Flamingo.

All of those seem to be fairly heavy-textured plants, which is exactly what you'd expect from a cruenta or johannis hybrid, and many of them appear to have that dull, slightly scurfy underside of the leaf that those 2 species have.

It's hard to tell from the photo but my plant has none of those things. It's actually quite translucent and thin-leaved, closer in texture to a big carolinae than a johannis or cruenta, or maybe a bit like carcharodon Rubra without the big spines. Not high gloss, but not dull either, and there is just a hint of mottling, but not as much as carch Rubra. The color is definitely pink, not pale reddish like many johannis hybrids. The only thing that is in any way reminiscent of johannis or cruenta is the color of the ripe berries. If I grew them all side by side under the same conditions this one would be bigger than either of those two.

It was overcast when I took those photos, but if the sun comes out I'll try to get one that shows the leaf texture better.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2008 at 6:02PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

I just found this old pic of the inflorescence:

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 3:19AM
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bromadams(10b)

Rosy Morn:

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 8:21AM
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brom-nutter

Hi Lisa - I have a large neo also very similar growing over 1m across with the contentious name of - Fairchild

Neo Fairchild

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 7:54PM
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hotdiggetydam

Fairchild doesn't flush in the center

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 8:11PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Contentious name, indeed! Fairchild is a cv. of johannis. Red leaf tips, no pink. Sounds like yet another name that got lost in translation crossing the Pacific.

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 11:25PM
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brom-nutter

Thanks Lisa - any clues on it's real identity.

Cheers Richard

    Bookmark   November 25, 2008 at 8:31PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Sorry, no idea, Richard. By the wide cup and general form it does seem likely to be a johannis hybrid, but where it got that delicate shell pink color is a mystery, at least to me.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2008 at 11:00PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Well, winter has set it and there hasn't been much sun lately, but I came across this photo from earlier in the year which shows the translucent quality of the leaves better.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 8:25PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Lisa, beautiful photo!

The stronger light given your Neo NOID makes it look more apricot-pink-tangerine than in the previous photos. It certainly does have a simple, elegant translucency.

Those Tigers behind them also look superb. I wish mine looked like that...even though I grow it hard, in near full sun all day. The only other Tigers which I've seen look as good as yours, are in photos posted on this forum by Lyndi in Singapore, our Thai friends Chanin and Yong, and Han in Malaysia - oh, and probably those grown in far-north Queensland, Australia, and The Philippines. By you all living closer to the equator, it seems that the similar light (and humidity?) is a major influence on the appearance of all broms.
I know this is not news to many here on the forum, but those of us further from the equator will probably never grow the same neo the same as you. So maybe the only bromfolk who might ascertain the identity of your NOID have to give it the same growing conditions. Considering that you suspect it is either a wild-collected species, or a very old hybrid, it's probably unlikely that it was ever imported to the East, or crossed the Pacific?

I wish you luck with finding its true identity, Lisa. Maybe it should be morphologically dissected, described, and published if it does fit the bill as an undescribed species found in cultivation (Neo. vinzantii?) - OR - at least named and registered if found to be a species cultivar or possibly a natural hybrid.

I reckon it deserves recognition.

K

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 9:57PM
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bromadams(10b)

Isn't Hawaii around 20N?

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 10:50PM
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exotica(New Zealand)

Hi Lisa, I'm pretty sure it's a form of Neo cruenta. The give-away is the sky blue petals. This is a very variable species. I've got a really wide range of unnamed cultivars in my garden of this species which range in colour from green through to red, some are huge, others a bit smaller and quite a range of leaf types as well.

Many of them are not much to look at, but some like the one you've got are really nice (as are most of your plants dammit). Check out the photo of the pink one on page 180 of my second book, which was taken at a Queensland nursery.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 1:45AM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Gee, Andrew, I guess I'd better get your second book! I don't suppose you'd want to send me a copy........? No, didn't think so. ;-)

Never mind, someone was kind enough to email me a photo of the page in question. It's kind of hard to see enough detail to determine the texture of the leaf though, and there's no inflorescence on the pink one on the right, which I assume is what you are referring to. Frankly I'm not convinced that is in fact a form of N. cruenta, despite what the tag may say.

I'm not seeing cruenta for mine either. The petals are more of a pale lavender blue than the typical cruenta sky blue, and the floral bracts don't have that characteristic in-turned scoop shape that cruenta inflos have. And again with the leaf texture and growth habit-- every verified true species cruenta I've seen has leaves as tough as rhino hide, and is somewhat stoloniferous as well. This is neither. And I've never seen a real cruenta that blushed pink in the cup. My guess is that a lot of what you're seeing as that species has been misidentified or is of hybrid origin.

Much as I'd love my plant to be a new species, Kerry, I'm starting to get some indications that it probably is a hybrid. I did some crosses with it, and although they're still small, the seedlings are showing a degree of variability and unexpected pigmentation that points more to mixed ancestry. Next time it blooms, though, I'll take some more detailed photos and even dissect a flower and see if the BIC has anything to say about it.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 1:08PM
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hotdiggetydam

LOL Lisa good luck getting the book I gave up after several emails

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 2:12PM
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