Ae. eurycorymbus?

LisaCLV(HI)December 16, 2008

Do you have a photo of yours, Kerry?

We grow all of our Gravisia-types and other large Aechmeas and Porteas together in one area just for cut-flower production, so it's hard to get a picture of any one by itself. The cluster of taller, lighter-colored ones in the middle and the one on the right are what I assume to be Ae. eurycorymbus. It is easily the tallest Aechmea I've seen, at least 7 ft. in bloom.

Surrounding that to the left and in the foreground are mostly blanchetianas, including a bunch of oddball seed-grown ones. I have to shake my head whenever anyone asks how many forms of blanchetiana there are because each seedling is slightly different from the next. Of course this group does tend to interbreed, so I can't swear to the purity of their bloodline. There are some presumed mulfordiis growing in there too, but the only one you can see at all in the pic is way in the background in the gap between the eurycorymbus. It's a much shorter, denser inflorescence.

Sorry I don't have a better picture or a close-up of the inflorescence, but does this look like the eury. being grown in Oz?

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bromadams(10b)

I can see why you grow them for the flowers; the foliage isn't much. I do like a well grown rubens (if that is what it is) but only as a stand alone specimen. The form is just right to my eye.

My P&C isn't a great pupper. The one is the pic (on original thread) is current and is a pup of the first P&C that I got. I did remove a NOVAR pup from the orignal plant, but since then I've only had one VAR pups. That current P&C has given me one VAR pup so far. But I'm about to put the big fertilizer hand to it and see what happens. I really like this plant although the inflorescence does little for me.

BTW, the P&C does have really nice pollen/anthers but I haven't been too excited about using it. I do have one rubens seedling (volunteer planted last Feb) and lately it's been a MONSTER. It definately has that polyploid growth going.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2008 at 9:55PM
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sdandy

Dang. Now I'm confused. I volunteer in a garden that has what I thought or assumed was a leptantha that I am patiently awaiting seeds from. The inflorescence was easily 7ft tall if not taller. Now that the flowers are long gone is there any way to tell until next bloom? It was very large and highly branched which led to me to rule out any of the aechmeas. Oh well, it is large and beautiful either way.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2008 at 11:24PM
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exotica(New Zealand)

Hi Lisa, that's exactly the one that I grow here under that name. I got mine a decade or so ago from Graham Alderson who lives near Christchurch, but I'm not sure where he got his from, possibly Australia.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 12:52AM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Lisa - I have searched all my photo files, and unfortunately I don't have a photo of my flowering eurycorymbus.
Do any other GW-Aussies grow it and have a flowering photo? - or anyone from anywhere??
I just remember it was taller than the other gravisias - and yes my so-called mulfordii has a shorter, denser inflorescence as well. The eury I grow MIGHT be the same is yours, Lisa, it's hard to tell - but my eury is a smaller, more upright plant in leaf rosette than my so-called blanchetianas. And I don't remember the inflo being as orange as yours, or as full. Is there a possibility that your eury could be Portea/Aechmea leptantha, Lisa? Yours has that soft apricot look about it, which reminds me of my leptantha. See below.

Does the above plant look like your Ae. eurycorymbus, Exotic Andrew?

I did find a photo I took a while ago of a brom-friend's garden where she also grows the same Aussie version of eurycorymbus as me, but they were not yet in flower, and were about half-size, grown very hard, in full sun most of the day. See photo below - the two broms in the foreground are the supposed eurycorymbus (different to leptantha).

I found Aussie eury in my garden, still recovering from winter 2007, and it only has a couple of pups now. The leaves are stiffer, slightly pointier tipped, and it has a matt, slightly-trichromy texture to the dull green leaves, unlike the so-called mulfordii, P&C, and blanchetiana. My eury are growing in less light than my friend's.

Here is my Aussie mulfordii

and Aussie Peaches N Cream

Bromadams - do you have a photo of your rubens? Does it have a slightly silvery/trichomy/scurfy leaf surface - most obvious in very bright light? And do the leaves flush a lilac tone come Spring and Summer? I don't have a photo of my rubens in flower, but remember the inflo being red-ish and yellow, and similar to, but less dense than, (Aussie)mulfordii. Sounds like you have a more stable variegate in P&C than what crossed the Pacific.

Anyone else got photos of their rubens/mulfordii/eurycorymbus/callichroma broms?? Ironically, even though Unc D says that the majority of Aussie gravisia are likely to be callichroma, I have never bought a plant by that name. Unc D also says that, in Australia, plants bought labeled Ae. eurycorymbus are probably Portea leptantha - which, since U.D. wrote that article, has been reclassified as Aechmea leptantha. oooh - head starting to hurt now, like sdandy's... but I grow what I THINK to be the true Portea/Aechmea leptantha, and it is definitely larger and greener of leaf than my so-called Ae. eurycorymbus.

I think blanchetiana is undoubted, although as Lisa said, there are some variables amongst that promiscuous lot...yellow leaves, green, red, (and even pink on Aussie eBay recently) - and who knows about the inflo differences. I thought I might list my turquoise blanchetiana on feeBay, and see how it goes (JOKE - sorry!).

and then there are all those different aquilega forms as well...hmmmm...the plot thickens!

Sorry 'bout the disjointed scroller...

K

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 1:23AM
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bromadams(10b)

Using UD's key, I thought that this was emmerichiae. I don't have it anymore.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 9:34AM
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bromadams(10b)

Here is a rubens inflorescence that is 2 months old. It started out yellow but then turned bright red/orange.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 9:37AM
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bromadams(10b)

Kerry, my rubens does have a hint of scurf on the tops and bottoms of the leaves.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 9:59AM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Kerry and Andy, my leptantha is only about half the size of this monster eurycorymbus, and very definitely red/yellow, no apricot tones. It came from Tropiflora. I don't know if I have a pic of it, but my photo files are crashing on me again, so I'll have to wait on that. These are all summer bloomers and it's winter here, so I can't run out and take a picture.

I put P. leptantha pollen onto P. alatisepala and it took easily. If leptantha is to be an Aechmea/Gravisia now, then that throws the seedlings into the realm of bigenerics. There seems to be a real affinity between Gravisias and Porteas though. I've grown out seedlings of P. petropolitana v. extensa only to find that they were all insect-pollinated hybrids, many clearly with Ae. blanchetiana.

Nick, your presumed emmerichii looks very similar to an unknown that I was wanting a name on, except that mine has somewhat more purplish-grey foliage. I had some other smaller plants that I thought might be emmerichii, but I didn't really attempt to key them out. Most of the large cut-flower Aechmeas we have were either given to us by friends who wanted to clear out their yards or grown from seed collected in a garden setting. Either way, very few solid IDs on any of them, and a fair amount of intergrading. The florists don't care what the species is so I don't keep track of them like I would with my Neos for breeding. We just cut whatever is in bloom, but I would like to know the name of that one if anyone knows it.

The photo of Ae. callichroma in Baensch's book shows lovely bright red leaves, so that was on my wish list for quite a while. When I finally ordered one from Michael the plant I got did not have red leaves, so I was kind of disappointed. I don't remember what I did with it or what the flower looked like. Since it wasn't what I was hoping for, I probably just threw it somewhere in this area with all of the others and let it go.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 2:54PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Kerry, I just looked at your "leptantha" photo again and it sure looks a lot like some of those P. petropolitana x Ae. blanchetiana seedlings I mentioned! It also looks a lot closer to my Ae. rubrolilacina than it does to my leptantha.

*sigh* I doubt we'll ever get this mess straightened out....

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 3:05PM
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bromadams(10b)

I got a "leptantha" recently, indirectly from Tropiflora, and I was talking with the grower I got it from as well as somebody from Tropiflora and was told that it probably is a hybrid and not a leptantha. Tropiflora didn't have the "true" leptantha. My leptantha inflorescence just died out and there were no seeds. I don't see much point in growing leptantha (or even a hybrid) so I'll probably get rid of it.

Lisa, my emmerichiae would go gray with some purple when it got a lot of sun.

Here is a bad picture of my leptantha:

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 5:02PM
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aroideana(Tropical Australia)

Lisa , I just sent a pic of what I think is true eurycorymbus to Kerry to put up here .. Funny you mentioned P. petropolitana x Ae. blanchetiana , as the reverse hybrid is common over here , from one of the early batches of blanchetiana seedlings released . A friend grew out about 100 for cut flowers , and as they matured it was so obvious the petropolitana parentage it was not funny . I even had a KIwi send me pictures of his expensive imported 'blanchetiana' that must have came from the same seedling batch.

Ae. eurycorymbus is in flower for me now , but old plants shipped down from up north and leaning against a fence .. so only close ups allowed .. will fwd to Kerry , if she does not mind .

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 5:38PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

O.K. - at 'Roid's request, here are the photos of his Aechmea eurycorymbus (different to mine!).

It doesn't look as big as yours, Lisa. I'm becoming convinced that my eury is an impostor.

And here are photos of 'Roid's xPortmea (Ae. blanchetiana x Portea petropolitana var. extensa)

I forgot to say before that my supposed Ae. leptantha is also about 7' tall - even bigger than Portea petro. Bromadams' leptantha looks smaller than mine, and not as large an inflo.
How big does your Ae. rubrolilacina grow, Lisa? The photos of it on fcbs show a pink/mauve inflo, though.

Bromadams - I really like your Ae. rubens best of them all so far. My so-called rubens is different, and I suspect it could be emmerichiae?, although not like Peter Franklin's on fcbs photo index. My "rubens" has the purple foliage, especially in very bright light, but I don't have a photo of it flowering. Now I'm wondering how Malva gets such a purple tone to the leaves if it is a cultivar of the green-leaved mulfordii...

I am now more confused than ever! My "leptantha" always self-sets large black seed pods, so if I can be bothered, I might grow some from seed and see if they grow true to the supposed species.

I think I'll just add a bigger question mark to the labels of all my gravisias...

Cheers,
Kerry

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 10:20PM
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sdandy

Tried before, lets see if I can post this yet...

One pic I was able to get from someone else when the bloom was more fresh. The other I grabbed today.

Does this help anyone with more knowledge guide me which brom this is? Looking at it again today, the bloom was probably closer to ~6ft.

Is there an online source of information like the color differences between these large bloomers? Or is it just gleaned from experience (like from wise brom-friends online)?

(ah, figured it out...I used an unfortunate phrase that happened to be a spammer's name...)
-andy

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 10:54PM
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bromadams(10b)

That sure looks like it has a lot of blanchetiana influence.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 11:26PM
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sdandy

Even with the red blushing of the leaves when it was getting more sun (in the first pic)? I thought the blanchetiana would make it a little more evenly colored. I just got my first blanchetiana lately though, so I haven't seen it in full sun yet.

Oh, also the leaves aren't as smooth (or as firm/stiff) as my blanchetiana. How much do you think texture would be passed on or dominant?

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 11:33PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Well Andy, it looks and sounds just like my supposed Ae. leptantha in the second and third photo of this thread - except that mine stays green leaved, even in a lot of light. Mine also has less stiff, and not as wide, leaves than blanchetiana.

As Lisa and Bromadams suggest, it might be a cross with blanchetiana? To my eye, it is like an orange flower spiked version of Portea petropolitana var. extensa. Mine gets large black seed pods - does yours?

K

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 11:56PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

Boy, I sure opened a can of worms, didn't I? Before anyone goes off and changes the names on their tags, let me just reiterate that I don't have a confirmed ID on most of these. I think I decided that my plant was eurycorymbus based on the photo and description in Baensch's book. They have most of the Gravisias on pages 66-67, which makes it easy to compare and contrast. I thought maybe if we could get a concensus here that would confirm the ID, but it looks like that may not happen.

Even though it's winter, there are still some old inflorescences on the plants. Here is another shot of an old eury bloom (sorry, I couldn't get too close so it's not very focused):

Your plant looks to me like it's probably the same, Andy.

And here is what I had assumed was mulfordii, but now I'm thinking it could be rubens? As I say, we got these from someone who didn't know what they were, so I'm just guessing.

I thought I had an Aechmea key somewhere, but all I could find was this table of descriptions. Still very useful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aechmeas

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 12:20AM
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sdandy

Hey Kerry, for some reason it doesn't remind me of p. petropolitana too much. But that could just be because of color...I haven't seen any petropolitana anywhere near this big either (but what do I know?).

Searching for as many blanchetiana images I can find, the colors do look pretty close so I certainly wouldn't rule that out yet.

Here is a closer pic of the (hopefully) forming berries. Doesn't look like they are going to turn black but I have no idea.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 1:28AM
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sdandy

Oops, didn't see your post Lisa. Yeah, I agree that they look the same. Now as for the name (ha ha)...

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 1:32AM
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bromadams(10b)

Uncle Derick has the key at the bottom of his article.

http://fcbs.org/butcher/Gravisia.htm

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 8:20AM
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bromadams(10b)

From the key: "Flower bracts (including spine-tips) mostly equal to or exceeding sepals". I think that can be said of my rubens.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 8:38AM
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sdandy

Hmmm, judging by the pics on this website I am definitely starting to lean toward eurycorymbus rather than leptantha with mine and Lisa's. These were actually some of the most helpful pictures I could find for a bunch of IDs. And is there a way to put multiple links in a post without just pasting the address?

Using UD's key it clearly points to eury, but with they bother updating keys like that to include leptantha to compare or just wait to see if they get re-shuffled again?

http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/brom/images/list/bromel/Portea%20leptantha%2096GR00618%20c.JPG

http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/brom/images/list/bromel/Aechmea%20eurycorymbus%2099GR00658%20a.jpg

http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/brom/images/list/bromel/Aechmea%20eurycorymbus%2099GR00658%20b.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 11:09AM
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splinter1804

Hi everyone - It's very interesting reading this detective story which has developed since Lisa opened her "can of worms". Sorry I can't contribute, but it's way over my head.

Kerry, if you have any spare seed from your plant is there any chance of me getting some to try? Who knows, in a few years down the track I might be able to add some more information to this discussion.

All the best, Nev.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 1:49PM
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hotdiggetydam

It lost it original track and went off wondering around the world...nice photo's tho

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 2:25PM
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LisaCLV(HI)

As long as we're still on Gravisias we're still on track. I don't understand why Uncle D's key doesn't include blanchetiana though. That seems like kind of a major omission.

Andy, that first leptantha link looks just like what I have under that name, so I feel vindicated! It's a much shorter inflorescence than eurycorymbus, maybe about 4'. What site is that from?

    Bookmark   December 20, 2008 at 6:32PM
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sdandy

I just came across it doing an image search for leptantha. The pictures are high quality and are helpful as they typically have multiple and usually have pics of the leaves too. Its the Utrecht University in the Netherlands. If you follow the link (below) and then click "Bromeliad Identification Page" there are pictures with discussion and some positive IDs (with familiar/famous names weighing in). Interesting site so far...I'm still digging around and finding more and more good stuff.

I do have to admit I was skeptical at the beginning of the post as to your ID Lisa (not anymore...how could I have doubted :P ), but I agree that its definitely not leptantha. At least based off of that picture, the leptantha has a much finer branching and 'daintiness' that reminds me of all the other porteas I have seen bloom. If its eurycorymbus or a hybrid I don't know. But as ours looks so similar, what would be the chance that both would be the same hybrid?

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   December 20, 2008 at 8:50PM
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kerry_t_australia(9)

Thanks Lisa, Andy, Bromadams and 'Roid - I'm now convinced my huge supposed leptantha is a furphy. I just wish I knew exactly what mine are... And I will certainly be on the look-out for a real rubens.

Nev - when next my 'leptantha NOT' flowers and sets seed, I will happily send you some.

Cheers,
an even-more-confused Kerry.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2008 at 9:18PM
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sdandy

Oh, sorry everyone...I guess I should have given this link as it is a little buried and not obvious to get to from the other link I sent. It has the list of the pictures that they have. Also you can change the end of the link/extension to switch to the other classes from "bromel/" to "pitcair/" or "tilland/". Its not exhaustive, but what they have is good.

Here is a link that might be useful: another link

    Bookmark   December 20, 2008 at 11:26PM
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