concentrica seedlings

bromadams(10b)December 25, 2009

I got some concentrica var. plutonis seeds from the BSI seed fund two years ago. I still haven't seen any of the normal concentrica type markings on any of the seedlings even though they are fairly big and some are growing in very heavy sun. When do you starting seeing concentrica type markings on seedlings?

Here is one guy that is showing some bicolor variegation. I also have one that has quite a good number of light pink splots while the others are terribly boring. I was hoping for the classic concentrica markings.

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If they're not being grown too soft, you would usually start to see some indication of concentrica-type blotches by this point if there are going to be any, Nick. The seedling in the picture doesn't look like a concentrica to me, though. Maybe princeps or cruenta? Can you show a picture of the one with pink spots?

My own experience with seed bank seeds is that they are often mislabeled and/or hybrids. They have only the word of the seed donor to go on, who may not know the correct ID or if the plant was pollinated by another species/hybrid. I've never known a concentrica to self, so I'd treat seeds from any species that is not a known selfer with considerable suspicion.

Even if the donor does know they're hybrids, that information doesn't always get reported to the recipient. I once sent in some Portea seeds that I knew had been open-pollinated, and said so very clearly. I just thought somebody might be interested in taking a chance. I had labeled them as "x ?" but I was rather chagrined to find them listed as P. petropolitana v. extensa, with no further explanation. I'm sure there must have been some disappointed growers, as well as others who now believe their seedling xPortemeas are the real deal because they came from BSI. I just hope they haven't shared them with their friends and passed on the error. This is how these things get started!

For a graphic illustration, check out some of Michele Green's Karamea hybrids. Many of them were grown from seed bank seeds with clearly erroneous parentage (which is not her fault). I'm not saying they're all wrong, but look at the ones from the supposed cruenta x pauciflora cross and tell me where the marmoration came from. Karamea Ocelot came from BSI seed labelled punctatissima, and Karamea Inca Gold from seed labelled pascoaliana. Both way off the mark. That last one is particularly surprising, since pascoaliana is a selfer.

I never order seeds from seed banks anymore, and after that last experience, I don't donate either. Even if you do get correctly labeled seed, it has often been stored so long it's no longer viable. Buyer beware.

Here is a link that might be useful: Karamea hybrids

    Bookmark   December 26, 2009 at 12:48PM
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Lisa, I know the problems with the BSI seed fund, but I still order stuff from them anyway. I like to get the Pepinia, Fosterella, Pitcairnia, Billbergia type stuff that are probably not going to be hybrids and I can't get anywhere else. I got some Ae fendleri seeds last year and a few do look to be, at least, fendleri like, while the ones with stripes...whatever, I don't mind the surprises since I picked up a big fendleri pup after I planted the seeds and don't want fendleri seedlings now.

The plant shown above has been getting 90% direct sun (and a lot of salt) for the last 2 months and hasn't flinched.

I'll try to get some pics of the pink one tomorrow. I've tried taking pictures of it before and the pics never look right.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2009 at 4:40PM
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The pink one that does have some concentrica traits. This one hasn't been getting much sun and has had the pink spots from very early on.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2009 at 4:47PM
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That second one looks hybridy to me. It may have concentrica in the mix, or johannis, or both. I'd hang onto that one, although I have a feeling those markings may diminish as it ages. That type of spotting is usually most evident on pups and young plants.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2009 at 5:41PM
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I'm not all that wild about this one but I'll give it some more sun and see what happens. I was thinking about crossing it with Nid 'Leprosa' just to see what happens but that looks to be at least a year away and by then I should know more about what traits you get with an xNiduregelia involving Leprosa since I've got several growing right now and one is a cross with a concentrica hybrid.

BTW, I've got a few Blushing Tiger hybrids and F2's that are starting to show their stripes. Those things are so cute with their big bold stripes on such little plants. I wish more seedlings would show their true colors when small.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2009 at 9:15PM
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All spots are not created equal. There are different types that arise from different cell layers, and they often don't want to combine forces in a cross. I tried crossing Neo. olens with Nid. Leprosa years ago, thinking the spots would combine. Nope. The olens spots were reduced to tiny flecks on a light reddish background, and the plant was very slow-growing and weak. I don't remember more than one seedling; either there wasn't much germination or there was only one with spots, I forget. At any rate, I finally gave up trying to keep it alive. Hope you have better luck!

    Bookmark   December 27, 2009 at 9:43PM
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My Voodoo Doll x Leprosa cross gave me just one weak seedling while the others xNiduregelias have been growing fine.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2009 at 11:11PM
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