No shipping to SC!!!!!

seachelleleeFebruary 13, 2010

I just received word from Nuccio's that they cannot ship to SC because of some concern about Sudden Oak Death. Nuccio's said they have all their paperwork in with the state, but for some reason (maybe because it's SC), SC won't allow them to ship. In the meantime, they have all their orders to SC on hold - including mine. WAH!!! Thank goodness I'm close enough to GA to try and find someone to take my order for me :) I love being able to enjoy the nice weather and country here in SC, but the bureaucracy drives me nuts! I hope I can get my order in time to enjoy some of the blooms. :/

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Have you studied/searched Sudden Oak Death? Do you really understand why SC is prohibiting shipment of host plants? Do you understand why you should not go over the state line into GA and bring back Camellias and other SOD host plants into SC? Do you realize that the bureaucracy you complain about is trying to slow the spread of SOD which will in time kill the much loved coastal live oaks plus the many oak varieties inland plus the host plants themselves?

Everyone in the Southeast should research SOD, become familiar with the host plant names and study the on-line pictures to understand what it looks like. Actually, the British sites have the best pictures. Anyone growing one or more of these host plants should be watching them closely for the signs of SOD and taking leaf samples to their Extention service for identification if they have any suspicion of a possible SOD infection.

SOD was introduced into the Southeast on some infected Camellias shipped in from CA by Monrovia. It is here. The only way to slow its progress is to cooperate with the SC Agricultural Dept. and observe its rules.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2010 at 1:19PM
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Yes, I do realize the severity of SOD. I know the signs/symptoms, and I watch my own plants for those signs.

Do you know that Nuccio's requires plants shipped to SC to undergo an agricultural inspection? Do you realize that Nuccio's is a very reputable nursery which would not ship diseased plants? Are you aware that they have complied with all the requirements that the SC Department of Agriculture has put forth, and they have still been told they cannot ship - much to their bafflement?

I don't know if you live in SC or not. Maybe you're like one of the many jingoistic natives of this state who've never lived outside of it, and don't realize how bass-ackwards some things are here. For example, it took my husband over a year to get a title for a car he purchased out of state. The DMV refused to send it even though he provided all the required paperwork according to their statues. They couldn't tell him what else he needed to have, but they wouldn't send the title either. That's the type of bureaucracy that is ubiquitous around here. Anywho, I did not create this post to argue the merits of the Palmetto State with you. I mainly posted to let other residents know that if they were planning to order from Nuccio's, their orders would be delayed.

Meanwhile, I plan on having my plants shipped to GA and pick them up there. I'm sure Nuccio's plants have less of a chance of carrying SOD than do some of the nurseries I have been to here.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2010 at 3:30PM
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Dear seachellelee,
I am a native of South Carolina and find the tone of the language in your reply to nandina extremely hostile and offensive. It is a form of uncivil discourse for which you should apologize to all participants of this forum. Poor sweet baby, why don't you order a few camellias from Camellia Forest or Bob Wines' Nursery and quit your kvetching?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 10:40AM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Thank you, nandina, for commenting on this situation. As you are a long time resident of SC, I know that you care deeply for for the health of the native trees and that you are better informed than most about this terrible disease.

So many people really don't appreciate the reasons behind shipping bans, and are willing to find ways to satisfy their own needs rather than adhere to the laws.

GA (and other states, as well) also has a ban on shipments of camellias from California, too. A far, far better plan is to buy legally from other sources, as suggested earlier.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 1:10PM
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Jay, et. al,

How was the tone in my language anymore hostile and offensive than what Nandina posted? Was it because I am critical of the SC governmental systems? This is just the type of mindless flag-waving I was talking about which seems to affect many SC natives - thank you for illustrating my point.

Maybe you know something I don't. Are you going on record to say that Nuccio's is shipping out plants infected with SOD?

I am not arguing that SOD is a serious disease, which should be monitored. But if you will take a minute to go on the SC Dept of Ag's website, you will find no notices about shipping bans from CA. In fact, you can't even find any info about SOD on that site. Try doing a search for it - nothing comes up. If the Department is so concerned about its spread, don't you think there would be something on their site?

Furthermore, are you saying that those individuals who regularly cross state lines to purchase plants at nearby nurseries are committing crimes? I've never heard of any kind of ban on buying plants from Lowe's in Augusta and bringing them to North Augusta. How is this any different?

FYI - according to Nuccio's there is no ban on shipping to GA, and Augusta has become a very popular shipping destination as of late.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 1:52PM
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The plants I purchase from Nuccio's will be individually inspected by Agricultural inspectors before they leave the state. Can you say that plants I purchase at local nurseries will undergo the same scrutiny?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 1:59PM
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It's your tone, seachellelee, your tone. It's past angry and beyond offensive. Cool off, and read your comment posted below:

. . . I don't know if you live in SC or not. Maybe you're like one of the many jingoistic natives of this state who've never lived outside of it, and don't realize how bass-ackwards some things are here. For example . . .

Your heated commentary is insulting and accomplishes nothing except to get other people riled up. And for the record, the word is _back-assards_ or _back-asswards_, or _ass-backwards_. Good grief!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2010 at 5:49PM
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You do not need to apologize to anyone for anything, you owe noboby on this forum ANYTHING--My suggestion is ignore the posters-- they want attention.I dont live in S.C. but I see your point and agree with you. I guarantee you ignore them and they go away!!!

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 9:14AM
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Please tell me who I singled out for ridicule or attack. I stated that in my experience, many natives are unwilling to acknowledge that ANYTHING about SC could be subpar. If you've lived anytime at all in this state, you will realize this to be true. I did not state that either you or Nandina were in this group. Unlike you, who directed your sarcasm pointedly at me - "Poor sweet baby, why don't you order a few camellias from Camellia Forest or Bob Wines' Nursery and quit your kvetching." And then you accuse ME of uncivil discourse.

I think in all this zealous righteous indignation, the point is being missed.

1 - Nuccio's is NOT a fly-by-night establishment. It is a highly respected nursery and one of the biggest names in camellia growing. It HAS met the standards and regulations set forth by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture. The SC Dept of Ag has provided no reason why shipments should be stopped. According to Nuccio's there is a lawsuit being discussed by several of the growers in the area against SC for stopping shipments. Why would they go through the hassle and expense of a lawsuit if they did not have good reason to do so?

2 - The plants I receive will have been inspected by an agricultural inspector. I think this provides more of a safeguard than any local plants I might buy which probably have never been individually inspected. For those who are genuinely concerned that my purchases will infect the eastern half of South Carolina, rest assured that I will quarantine these plants for 6 weeks before I put them in the ground. If there are any signs of SOD, I will call my county extention agent - if in fact they exist. I have tried on at least 3 other instances to call them, and although I am calling during business hours, and have left messages, no one has ever called me back.

3 - There is no law I can find that says that one cannot pick up or buy plants from Georgia and bring them to South Carolina. People do it all the time. In order to ship to GA, Nuccio's will have to comply with GA's regulations. So how is it I am breaking the law?

As for the term "bass-ackwards", let me refer you to Urban where you will find the term defined. Try Googling "back-assards" and you won't find anything. Good grief, yourself.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 9:18AM
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I think that both seachellee and nandina make some valid points. I guess I won't be ordering from Nuccio's, this year, and I appreciate the heads up on that situation. Nandina provided some very good information about the SOD problem, but I thought she was a bit harsh. I never heard about SOD, and since reading nandina's message, I have looked, without much success for information relating to SOD in SC. I certainly haven't found anything from the SC Dept of Ag. Seachelle also made some very valid comments about the bureaucracy in SC, but she probably shouldn't have. It's simply not nice to spit back!

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 12:22PM
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In the Palmetto State, where our unemployment rate is among the highest in the nation--well over ten percent of the population--it seems absurd that we sit here at our computers quibbling about the luxury of our excess consumption and the denials placed upon our whims and vanities. The use of multiple exclamation points, along with the use of all caps, is the equivalent of shouting.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2010 at 4:03PM
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A further comment or two. First, I encourage all to do a search for "Sudden Oak Death + South Carolina" and to read through those threads for a better understanding of the situation. Basically all that stands between a major southeastern disaster which affects Oaks, azaleas, rhododendrons are a handful of State inspectors and the efforts of Clemson testing (and finding) SOD present in our local waters and soils. Okay, so I am a lone voice urging all in the southeast to cooperate with the Ag departments and to watch for symptoms of this infection in an effort to slow down its progress. This is just one of many times when I have started out as a single voice alerting or changing ecological situations. Hopefully there are some of you who will bring the subject up at your garden club/Master Garden meetings and spread the word. If my efforts bother some, so be it.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2010 at 10:27AM
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So now you take exception to my use of punctuation? You know someone really has nothing else to fall back on when they start dissecting your diction. If you think about it, growing ornamental plants is really a luxury. So I guess any posting about camellias is just an example of conspicuous consumption.


Congratulations on all your environmental hard work. However, I think your cause would be much better served if you took out your own post to make a PSA about SOD.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2010 at 10:51AM
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Tom Nuccio's is a friend of mine. I would have no problem ordering plants from him. I now live in South Carolina, But if it is back-asswards, so was Ga. Dr. John Ruter led the charge there againest SOD. For the record, interstade shipping of plants over the last 10 years has failed to start an epidemic of SOD. When daylily rust was discovered, and a shipping ban started, we still had the rust over the south-east in less than a year. As the national horticulturist for The American Camellia Society for 8 years, I was deeply involved in the crisis. Some of the proceedures set out because of fear were down right commical. When Ga. was in ban, most people shipped into Miss. and picked their plants up there. It is a real problem, But I feel that the proceedures monitering it are adequate and I would rather have a legal shipping method to SC so we can moniter it.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2010 at 3:26PM
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evilscott(USDA=10, Sunset=24)

From Clemson:
By Peter Kent
Clemson scientists have confirmed the first incidence in South Carolina of the pathogen that causes sudden oak death. Called Phytophthora ramorum, the fungus-like organism has killed thousands of oaks and associated plant species in the coastal forests of California and southwest Oregon. It also has attacked ornamental plants in nurseries and landscapes in the United States and Europe.

"One of the major concerns is that the climate here is similar to northern California," said Christel Harden, assistant department head for Plant Industry, a Clemson regulatory agency that oversees agriculture activities in the state. "If the pathogen takes hold, it could cause significant damage to the forest and nursery industries."

In South Carolina, forestry is an $835-million industry. Hardwoods cover more than half the stateÂs 12 million acres of forests. The "green" industry  turf and ornamental crops  is the stateÂs No. 2 agricultural commodity, valued at $290 million. The disease easily spreads by moving nursery plants that are hosts, including camellias, rhododendrons, azaleas and mountain laurels. Symptoms look like many common plant diseases: leaf spot, tip burn, dieback, leaf lesions and bleeding cankers.

"DonÂt dig up any plants or destroy them until they can be tested," said Steve Jeffers, Clemson plant pathologist and leader of the monitoring effort. "Report any sick shrubs to the Clemson Department of Plant Industry at 864-646-2139 as soon as possible."

Here is a link that might be useful: Clemson

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 10:05AM
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I think all the tones sound kind of nasty here....not just seachellelee's. I didn't find most of the replies to this person very nice at all, yet everyone wants to jump on this person without noticing how nasty THEY sound. Yes, I know what the caps signify.

I am all for protecting each state's native plants. No one loves Florida's native plants more than I do. Sometimes we have bans from incoming out of state nursery stock. What I have found is that they tend to put adequate testing programs into place, so as to hopefully minimize the impacts. It seems to me that if Nuccio's has complied with everything, then why wouldn't SC dept. of agriculture do some testing on some of Nuccio's stock? Sounds (possibly) like some disorganization within the state ag dept. to me. I would be extremely annoyed as well, if I couldn't get some straight answers.

Better safe than sorry, always, but there should also be a realization of the impacts to this, and professional and timely ways of dealing with it.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2010 at 9:29PM
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I forgot to suggest two wonderful nurseries here who ship. One, which has been mentioned already, is Bob Wine's nursery in Ocala, Fl. The other is Erinon Camellias in Plymouth Fl. Erinon propagates all his own stock, so there is no danger of SOD from him. He is acutely aware of the disease. Bob Wine's obtains some of their plants from Erinon. Not sure about the rest, but I do not think any come from California. They also do some propagating. I have purchased many camellias from both of these nurseries. Both are excellent.

You may want to consider ordering some camellias from a state that has no issues with shipping to SC until they get the situation resolved. You may even want to call your ag dept. to get their side of the story, as well, and to voice your concerns with them.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2010 at 9:38PM
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paulacat(Z8 Coastal SC)

Dang...I've never lived outside of SC and I didn't know I was a jingoist. Now, I understand I'm probably a jingoist and too ignorant to know it. Learn something everyday. (I did, however, know I'm ass backwards. Always have been. But I do it with a smile.)

    Bookmark   March 31, 2010 at 4:45PM
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