Non hibernated Fly trap

cj_speciosa(7a)July 19, 2013

So I keep hearing about how you should put your flytrap into dormancy, but everything in my experience is going against the stuff I'm hearing.

I've had my fly trap growing continuously for almost three years at this point and the only things that's happened recently is that the old rosette stopped producing, and a new one started growing right next to it. I'm assuming it split from the old one.

I'm wondering if this is going to happen in a year or so from now of letting that one grow continuously. The old one is now dying one trap at a time. The new one is growing like wild fire.

You can see the new one on the left.

Any thoughts?

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tommyr_gw

They need dormancy. They are not house plants.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 6:32PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

You're not adding anything to this thread. The whole point of the post was to get some ideas as to why it's thriving when it hasn't had any dormancy in three years.

You're not telling me anything I haven't already heard.

Your holier then thou attitude doesn't help either.

News flash......no plant belongs inside.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 7:34PM
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tommyr_gw

Fine. Good luck!

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:22PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

It's apparent that luck isn't something I need with plants. They speak for themselves. All of my carnivores have been inside for three years and counting. All of them are beautiful specimens. As long as you meet their needs, it doesn't matter where you keep them.

Everyone just regurgitates the same info without going into any detail. No one can explain why they are doing so good even though I haven't put them through dormancy.

I guess I'll just do it the old fashioned way and find out myself. No one seems to be able to answer my question.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 9:43PM
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ken2256(5b)

Hey CJ, just curious but do you add artificial light in the winter, or is it just light coming thru window?I am tempted to try that with a flytrap here and see what happens. very interesting, but sorry i have no answer for you.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:01PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Ken,

They've been in that same south facing kitchen window for almost three years. They automatically sense the lowered angle of the sun in the fall and winter months and act accordingly. Not too mention there is a chill that comes off the window because they are so close.

I'm pretty sure they are going into a natural state of some kind of dormancy because they are doing so well.

So no, I do not add any artificial light what so ever.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 10:32AM
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ken2256(5b)

That is real interesting, I am going to try that here and see what happens. thanks

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 11:23AM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Because most carnivorous plants are tissue cultured for mass market. There is a phenomenon that tissue cultured plants experience simply called tissue culture vigor.

Here's a link from Barry Rice, a botanist grower of carnivorous plants describing that phenomenon: http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq3840.html

This phenomena is observed a lot in pitcher plants and Venus flytraps, but eventually the plants will return to normal & will require their dormancy.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:12AM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Hunter:

Thanks for this resource. Very very interesting. I'm going to spend some time on his page. I'm wondering what the time frame for this is?

My plants are going over three years and still exploding.....Im going to push the envelope and find out....

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 7:39AM
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ken2256(5b)

So, by the sounds of this, if i want to do the same i need to make sure the vft is of the tissue cultured variety.I would imagine the ones lowes sells would be the mass produced type.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 8:50AM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Hi,

Me again, I wanted to add something that I totally forgot. in reference about North American temperate carnivorous plants failing to go dormant.

Aside from tissue cultured plants, there is a complex hybrid sarracenia developed by Booman Floral nursery which they name Sarracenia 'Cobra Nest'. Booman don't know the parentage of the plant but it is a beautiful small plant with dark red pitchers with silver hair contrasting the pitcher.

Sarracenia 'Cobra Nest" is the red plant lower left of the purple pitcher plants in the pot.

As you can see it is quite striking, this particular hybrid and grows through the year without going dormant. Quite a hardy plant that resistant to mineral salts and fertilizer. As far as I know, this is the only Sarracenia hybrid that can grow without going through dormancy, all original species and hybrids do need their dormancy.

This is a plant I salvage from Home Depot, more dead then alive and about to be thrown out in the garbage with the rest of dying carnivorous plants, got it for only 50â from the original price of $4.50.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2013 at 7:33PM
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ken2256(5b)

I want one of those cobra nest plants! I like the non-dormant types, my home depot has no cp,s but the lowes had a few. need to stop back and check what they might have.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2013 at 9:08PM
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ken2256(5b)

This place called XTREEM Plants has these cobra nest plants for sale

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 1:03PM
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hunterkiller03(9)

"XTREEM Plants" website is affiliated with Booman Floral, which supplied Carnivorous Plants to Home Depot. And there is where I purchase my 'Cobra Nest'.

Kinda pathetic where the sales clerk decided to place the box of plant. The darkest corner of the Nursery.Told the clerk: "They need light, at least put them in a bright spot like next to the windows."
The guy just looked at me and sad, "They don't need light 'cause they rat bugs."

Tried to explain they need the light to process the nutrients like any other plant. The fellow just looked at me all confused.

That's why if you want buying a plant from Home Depot or Lowe, by them quickly. If they ever water them, which is rare, the will water them with regular tap water.

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 9:44PM
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ken2256(5b)

Yea I agree hunter, lowes or home D , are kind of hit or miss depending on the type of care plants get there.I got a purp pitcher & vft at a lowes and those were actually pretty nice plants, the label said from some place out of north carolina.i checked Xtreem plants ,they want 50 bucks for a 4 pack of cobra nest

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 10:41PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Update on my fly trap.....it's growing more then I've ever seen...

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:48PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

The new growth is showing no signs of slowing down....

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:49PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Here's a shot of all of them....

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:51PM
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ken2256(5b)

Hey CJ, looks like you got a rare gem there! A Keeper for sure, hope i can find one like that some day ....

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:52PM
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ken2256(5b)

Be best to keep seeds from that VFT, If it flowers for you.It must be on steroids, ;-)

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:57PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

My pitcher is going crazy too.....it's the nicest grouping of plants I've seen in awhile....

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:03PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

top view

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:04PM
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ken2256(5b)

That is really amazing, i dont know if anyone could beat that cobra nest. Very Nice cj.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:12PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

The fly trap did flower a couple months back, but I had no idea where to get the seeds from? I know they're really tiny, but I checked the dead flowers and didn't see any??

It really does look like it's on the juice, doesn't it? I don't want to lose it but I'm gonna push the issue...I'm not going to artificially put it into dormancy. It's done me well thus far....well see what happens. It's been in that same spot for years. How long can "tissue culture vigor" last anyway?

Thanks for the compliment. Although the plant is doing all the work.......

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:36PM
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ken2256(5b)

I had a vft in my bog a few years back, and it flowered and seeded , i didnt mess with it,the next spring i had baby vft,s popping up in the bog, Yea what you have there is some special power house of a plant, hopefully the tissue culture gos on a long, long time, I would just ride it out like you say and see what happens.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:44PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

I'm curious as to why the plant "split" and if that is a natural thing for them to do? This second coming is doing better then the original ever did. The original has stopped growing and only has a few heads left. They are dying off very fast.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 9:13PM
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ken2256(5b)

Thats a good question CJ, but i dont have an answer, hopefully someone in the forum can shed some light on it,Unless its something to do with this tissue culture thing,its reproduced by itself

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 9:29PM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Plants do split & carnivorous plants do that often. That's their other method of propagation.

I've been looking at your good pictures of your S. purpurea subsp. venosa. I can see that the lid is very wavy & because it is easily becomes red. I wonder if you have a popular cultivar called S. purpurea 'Red Ruffles'.

If you look it up in the internet, you will see that your plant has a very wavy lid then the norm of a normal purple pitcher plant.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 10:21PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

So then I effectively have a new plant which came from the original without ever hibernating it.

I'd call that a success.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 2:16PM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Just be prepared, if this are tissues cultured plants, this vigorous growth phenomenon will come to an end when summer ends. It varies from plant to plant depending how much they were exposed to these growth hormones & nutrients.

For Venus flytraps, it will slowly it's production of new leaves, and the few that do grow will be smaller then normal and the traps will be sluggish when stimulated to close.

You purple pitcher plant, it will stop growth and the crown or growth tip. It will have a couple of spikes.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 2:55PM
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ken2256(5b)

Hey CJ,, If the plant reproduces every few months ,you will have a fresh plant that is on steroids without need for dormancy.pretty cool

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 3:29PM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Boy I got to be careful with my grammar. I can do better then this. :-P

Sorry.
What I'm trying to say is that tissues cultured plants will lose the vigorous growth phenomenon and it will happen at the end of some summer. It varies from plant to plant when they lose it depending how much they were exposed to these growth hormones & nutrients.

Venus flytraps when entering dormancy develop smaller size leaves, and the few that do grow will be smaller then normal and the traps will be sluggish when stimulated to close.

Purple pitcher plant, will stop growing and the crown or growing tip will develop a few tightly pack spikes.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 3:25AM
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stevelau1911

CJ

Based on what I see in that picture, it looks like your vft is having the new one take up the energy from the old one which might eventually kill off the old plant if it hasn't happened already.

I just got my B-52, and DCXL venus fly traps, and I'm only bringing one of each out of dormancy for now after over 1 month in the fridge so they can start gaining some size. One thing I believe that dormancy does is to help the plant produce vernalin which is essential for flowering, and reproduction so more plants can be generated from the plant you have. That is how it is with a lot of other temperate plants needing a dormancy cycle.

I think your vft would even have better results than it has been given 2-3 months of dormancy.

Here's my B-52 coming out of dormancy

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 5:15AM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Steve,

The new plant wasn't so much taking from the old plant. It was CREATED by the old plant. As you can see, the old plant is gone and has been for quite a few months. But the new one is still going crazy.

The only difference now, in December, is that the new traps are much smaller in length and trap size, but the growth rate is still the same.

All of the new traps are inside the circumference of the pot whereas the older traps produced in warmer temps and longer days are grown out past the edge of the pot

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 11:21AM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Here is a closer look at the "new" growth.

What is going to happen is that the longer, older traps will die off, one by one. The newer growth, as you can see, will stay inside the rim of the pot. It will do this all winter and then once the days get longer, it will start to grow "the big ones" again, shooting them well outside the edge of the pot.

It's been doing this for almost four years already.

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 11:25AM
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stevelau1911

I see that it does seem to be doing well, but my only real concern is that it doesn't seem to be expanding in terms of numbers which should be happening with any plant.

I would expect that after 3-4 years, 1 single plant should have branched off many little plants and have become a massive clump of venus fly traps filling out the entire pot to the max. I think that it may take even cooler temperatures than you have already to achieve that. That may be achievable by attaching a sheet of plastic on the entire window including the plant in to reduce temperatures a bit more.

I have decided to go ahead and take the rest of my venus fly traps out of the fridge and put them close to cool windows so they can make some progress and get a head start on the season.

    Bookmark   December 13, 2013 at 6:58PM
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hunterkiller03(9)

I think your plant is about to get out of that vigorous growth phenomenon when they were exposed to these growth hormones & nutrients I talked about. Just be vigilant & if it makes smaller traps & its rate of growth stops, than let it enter its dormancy.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 2:51AM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Hunter.

It does this every winter. It makes smaller traps, the big ones die off, and then it makes bigger traps when the daylight gets longer.

I have a hard time believing that it's been doing this well on growth hormones and nutrients it was exposed to four years ago.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 10:36AM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

Steve,

You may be right, but it has expanded into one plant already. It's split. I'd rather have one nice huge plant than a ton of tiny little ones.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 10:59AM
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hunterkiller03(9)

Oh then your plant does go into dormancy. I had assumed that it was recently bought, but I forgot that you posted earlier you had it for 3 years. I should have checked your 1st comment again before posting mine yesterday.

What your plant does every winter is dormancy: Making smaller traps while the big ones die off.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 2:11PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

I see.....so then there is no need to put it in the fridge to "force" dormancy. It does it naturally I guess....

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 2:16PM
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stevelau1911

I guess if you do want to force another plant to grow right next to it, one way to make it work is by taking a leaf cutting all the way down so there are stem cells, and then pulling off the head of the leaf.

The one issue with having only a single plant is if you ever wanted to try over-wintering one outside, or the chances that the main plant gets infected.

I just find it interesting seeing them grow as tiny plants and mature into full sized ones.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 6:36PM
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cj_speciosa(7a)

I didn't know that about propagating new plants.

So if I take an existing head and stick it in the medium if will root and form another plant?

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 9:29PM
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stevelau1911

Based on the online tutorials, all you need to do is peel off an entire leaf ensuring that you get all of the white section too at the base, then take off the head or trap, and laying the leaf on top of the medium so it is exposed to the light.

The picture I have up top is 3 section off originally 1 dcxl venus fly trap. I decided to keep 2 leaves together for more energy. The little piece up top is a complete gamble. I also have these under humidity domes so hopefully by around March, the pieces can form little plants.

I see that you happen to have lots of leaves and more pot space so it might be worth the risk of losing a trap to see if a baby VFT can be produced.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 10:28PM
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stevelau1911

CJ, how's your venus fly trap looking?

The 2 leaf cuttings, one in the top left, and one in bottom right of this picture have turned into tiny plants, 3 months after taking them. My DCXL doesn't have traps as big as yours yet, but each new leaf seems to be a bit bigger. Mine is still showing the dormancy leaves which are shorter than usual. I have them on a heat pad in a zip lock bag which I breath in for CO2 once in a while. I keep it on my east facing window.

I currently feed mine with slightly moistened fish flakes which are high in protein. Is there any way to overfeed a venus fly trap?

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 10:29PM
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healthy4all

WOOOOWWW some of these are crazy good looking!!!!
I have a few question if anyone could answer...
First, how long does it take for it to grow?
How much water is too much?
I did my research about their eating habits.
Is it ok if i cover it with glass?
Will it grow faster if they are covered?
I bought mine from ebay. Has anyone bought from ebay before??? Mine ARE growing but VERY slowly.

Thank for all the info!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Where i bought my fly trap

    Bookmark   June 29, 2014 at 11:07PM
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tommyr_gw

healthy4all,
They grow fairly quick IF grown outside where they belong in full Sun.
They need dormancy every year. 3-4 months. Do NOT cover with anything.
Keep in a shallow tray or distilled water , rainwater or Reverse Osmosis water.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2014 at 1:09PM
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Delpiero10

Do VFTs seeds need full sunlight to grow or indirect sunlight? I am in zone 11 and the day/night temperatures are between 77F-92F (25-33C).

    Bookmark   October 24, 2014 at 12:57PM
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tommyr_gw

You can use florescent light(s) placed a few inches above the pots to grow the seeds.
Try to get the ones that are 6500K.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2014 at 2:09PM
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