A new Dancy Tangerine....down to -10F???

johnorangeJanuary 25, 2014

I just bought a new Dancy Tangerine on trifoliate orange root stock (I believe). It's produced right here in town at a local wholesale supplier but sold through a box store.

I may call the nursery that grafted it since they are so close and my employer actually sells the nursery its water supply. The care label says the tree is hardy down to minus ten degrees F (-10F). From what I have researched, this tree should be hardy down to the mid twenties F. Is there any way -10F can be correct?

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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Someone is hallucinating. No. Not possible. Very few citrus relatives can survive temps that low, and certainly not a Dancy mandarin on trifoliate rootstock.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 10:09PM
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johnorange

LOL! Thanks Patty.
Here is the label front

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 11:19PM
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johnorange

And here is the back of the label. I'll see if I can call them and ask where the -10F came from.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 11:21PM
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johnorange

Ok, I think I figured out where the error was. I believe the tag was added by Home Depot. I went to the website on the tag and entered the plant code from the tag (THDB2326) and found this information on the Home Depot website:
Hardiness
USDA Zone 10 (30ðF) to USDA Zone 11 (40ðF).

Somehow, someone must have confused the USDA Zone with the temperature, albeit, a negative ten at that. There is a reason this country SHOULD have a certain level of unemployment.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 11:29PM
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tantanman(z9Tx)

Your Dancy is good to about 24 deg F, maybe, if hardened off. That means don't fertilize after July 4th.

Early this Thursday AM I could not sleep. NOOA forecast was for 31 F, up from the 23 they had predicted the night before. I knew they blew that one, way on the low side. And they did for it only got down to around 29 F on Wed AM. But at midnight it was already below 28. Then at 3 am it was 22 and four long hours till daylight. These temperatures were at the airport just out of town toward the Gulf. Then at 3:45 AM clouds set in and it started warming. By daylight it was 31. I only had three in the ground trees plus my small potted back up replacement trees covered. I hurred down to the orchard and they seemed OK.

Today it is 78 deg F. And it was this warm before this last one blew in. We had an ice storm Friday a week ago and a warm up to about eighty and back to an other freezing rain event Tuesday.

Three weeks ago it was 18 deg at the airport and that was followed by about eighty degrees before these two came in. My Wekiwa was putting on some growth buds. If I have any fruit this year it will be a miracle.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 5:22PM
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johnorange

Thanks Tantanman, I'm holding off putting this one in the ground for probably at least two more weeks. I have been very impressed with my satsumas, kumquats, and ponderosa lemons. Two nights in the teens and quite a few in the 20s and the only damage to them is about half the leaves knocked off the lemons. Those trees are fairly large. I have diligently covered my young blood orange and it still looks great. My lime has no leaves left and some branches have turned brown....we will see how it looks come spring. It's just too cold here for the lime. I'm planting the tangerine in a place that will be protected on three sides....going to build up the soil with river sand and enrich with horse manure before planting.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 10:50PM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Tantanman, I just purchased a Dancy tangerine and am planning on planting it in the ground after the freeze threat is over about the middle or end of March for my zone...I've only had 24 degrees hit us in 2010 (broke 20+ years record lows)...normally 27- 28 degrees is about the coldest we get...(Usually) some years we don't get anything colder than 30 degrees...

When I purchased the tree I was told to protect it when the temps hit 32 degrees or below...but you are saying when the leaves are mature that they might be able to handle 24 or even 27 degrees (possibly?) This would be fantastic if its accurate. I won't be fertilizing after end of Aug. here in Central FL so there are no new growths during the winter months that can get freeze damage...Thank you!!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 4:18PM
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johnorange

Does anyone have an opinion on planting a potted tree like my Dancy pictured above? I have read the general directions, not to plant too deep and to plant in a well-drained area with plenty of sun but very little is said about how to deal with the potting soil the tree is currently rooted in. Should I soak it off and put the roots in completely new soil by watering it in? How about inserting a perforated PVC pipe into the new hole to help water from the bottom up and assist in ventilating the deeper roots? I read one source (Texas A&M Ag Dept.) that said one should leave most of the original potting media but dislodge the media from the outer perimeter roots so they will be encouraged to grow into the new soil. I have recently created a 12-inch elevated mound of sandy soil about 4-ft in diameter to plant this tree in. I want to get it right!

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 10:28PM
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insteng

When I planted mine years ago I just stuck them in the ground and forgot about them. They are all huge now. A lot of times it seems trees and plants do better if you don't try to do too much with them. In South East Texas they should grow without no special care planted in the ground.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 11:47AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Funny you should ask :o)

Just planted a Dancy a couple of hours ago (actually my hubby) did most of the work,lol...He had to remove the dead Loquat I had there...once he dug the right size hole...all I did was sprinkled some "slow release fertilizer around the hole and a little on the bottom (used Dynamite Fertilizer) slow release. My husband planted it just slightly above...about 1/2" above the soil line...do NOT bury the root ball. He created a water basin so when I water it for the next several weeks the water will go right down into the root ball...Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 1:06PM
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johnorange

LOL! Thanks for the input. Sometimes I do think we might do better to stick them in the ground and forget about them. I have read and heard about issues with roots staying in the soft soil in the original potting medium...hence sometimes the suggestion to dig a much larger hole with irregular walls. My soil is compact clay so I might have some issues along those lines. Hopefully this particular spot will work since I dug up a blueberry that wasn't doing well here and back-filled the hole with sand.

puglvr, that is a pretty tree...hope you get lots of tangerines in return! I think I'll try the buried PVC pipe and see if it might help aerate the deeper roots while the tree sets up a shallower feeder root zone.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:41PM
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tantanman(z9Tx)

When you plant these container grown citrus it is kind of tricky.
If you're planting on level ground and you use conventional instructions the potting media begins to decompose and the crown settles below grade. Often the tree then dies of crown rot.

To avoid this, plant two or three inches high and cover any roots that become exposed later with more soil.

Option two. Put a stake on either side of the root ball and tie to the trunk with an little upward force to keep it from sinking. Plant the regular one inch above grade.

Option three. This is the hardest to do but I have had some real
good results if the root ball was not compacted and root bound. Take the root ball and put it in a container of water. Work the roots out of the potting soil and straighten them out. Make a hole that has a dome under the crown of soil that will not decompose or settle. Low organic. Straighted the roots out radially around to a depth of 3 to 8 inches. Backfill to grade. The dome should hold the crown about 1 inch above grade or less if you think the type of soil will not compact. Sandy loam is about the only one that does that well.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 12:03AM
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tantanman(z9Tx)

Puglvr1 The small Citrus trees just do not have enough wood to reliably stand up to a freeze in the 24 to 27 deg range. They need protection. Usually we don't worry too much about some leaf damage. Lien Chau's Fairchild was about 4 years years old and they don;t grow real fast. We had three days when it was in the mid twenties. It lost all the leaves and bloomed and set about half the fruit it had the year before. They are very hardy up to a point. The older they are the better. The wood freezes at the rate of 1/4 inch of diameter per hour below 23 deg. at your best.

That is why we say take off the fruit on small trees and make them grow good wood fast so they will become more productive and more hardy in that 3 to 5 year range.

Expect more cold winters.We are reverting to the mean winter temperatures.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 12:27AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Thanks for your advise Tantanman...I will protect the tree when the forecast calls for 30 degrees or lower...

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 10:35AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Great advice from Tantanman. Nancy, with fertilizers, no sense in sprinking any at the bottom of a hole. The feeder roots for citrus trees are in the first about 12-18" of the soil, and out at the edge of the canopy. You've done a great job in clearing out the lawn. Widen your watering well to just beyond the edge of the canopy. Place your fertilizer in the ring of the well. The feeder roots will then be encouraged to reach out, away from the root ball, to reach the water and nutrients.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 12:26PM
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johnorange

I planted the Dancy tangerine this week. Thanks for the planting tips. I have had trouble in the past with my trees sinking after planting. This time, I built up a large mound with relatively fine local river sand, enriched the entire mound moderately with horse manure, removed the outter layer of nursery potting bark media, and back-filled the hole using water to wash the sand around the exposed roots. I added two PVC pipes to asist deep watering during the summer but I don't anticipate they were really needed under the circumstances. I added horse manure around the tree, back about 6" from the trunk. They say not to fertilize right after planting but I thought I should since I removed most of the potting media from the roots. This location on the south side of my house is great for winter protection but it could be a little wet from roof water runoff. Hopefully, the built up mound will help that. Wish me luck!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:45AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Thanks so much Patty for your advise and help :o)

Between the CLM's and greening...not to mention living in the bug capital of the world,lol... I hope my Satsuma, Dancy and Meyer survives long enough till I get some fruits :o)

John, nice job with your planting...Good luck!!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 3:47PM
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johnorange

Here is an update on my tangerine. It's putting out a nice growth flush, including flower buds so I guess it's happy here. I'm impatient for tangerines so it will be difficult to remove any fruit that may result from the flowers. I'm counting chickens before they hatch, but maybe I'll leave just one!

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 10:42AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Okay, John. Inquiring minds need to know: what's with the large PVC pipes?? The wall near your tree will provide a bit of a microclimate, moderating temps for your tree, too.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 12:51PM
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johnorange

Patty I really hope this turns out to be a good spot for this tree. The house has a wall behind the photographer and to the right (north) of the photographer and it's open to the south so hopefully it will allow plenty of sun but protect from colder seasons. The stone wall is an outdoor shower that I'm beginning to landscape around.

The PVC pipe is sometimes buried along with a new tree to help water it. It's just two pipes buried at an angle when the tree is planted. I have seen it used for landscape trees but not citrus. You just go by with a water hose now and then and fill the pipes and let the water slowly drain into the root zone. It's really helpful in soil that's hard and difficult to get water to stay on long enough for it to soak in. I suppose building a temporary mound around a tree does the same thing but after reading how citrus likes well-aerated root zones, I thought this might help reduce the shock of going from a well aerated nursery pot to being planted in the ground. I also water the soil around the tree to make sure fertilizer gets soaked in. Once the tree is well established, you pull the pipes out and throw a little dirt in the holes. I brought in several truck loads of river sand just to build off the ground for this tree so the PVC probably isn't helping as much as it might in my hard-packed clay soil.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 4:47PM
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johnorange

This photo shows my house "hugging" my tree and hopefully protecting it from cold winters. You can also see how high I built up the soil to get up off of my clay soil and the water that runs off the roof. I have a nice crop of peppermint in the background by the AC unit :>) My other trees have had trouble with suffocated roots and being soggy during the rainy season. Hopefully I'll have to watch this one to keep it from drying out.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 4:56PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Very well done. A nice protected area. Rain gutters can help divert the water runoff, I put them up on my house, I was surprised at how inexpensive it was to do the whole house. Plus, it is better for your foundation/basement as well.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2014 at 5:47PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

Ten Degree Tangerine: The Ten Degree tangerine certainly lives up to its name. My tree has never been exposed to 10 F but has sailed thru a night of 13 F with flying colors. Tree is very thorny but produces good crops of tangerines with a somewhat sweet/tart flavor. The ten degree tangerine was developed in Texas and has Yuzu and some other mandarins in its bloodline.

Trees are 20.00 per gallon and are either grown from rooted cuttings or grafted.

Here is a link that might be useful: mckenzie farm

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:02AM
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johnorange

Tcamp, well, my ten degree tangerine was a typo! :>) You have a nice tree.

Patty, The two-story part of the house is the only part where I haven't put gutters up. May add that to my summer list.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:35AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

John, NICE new growths on your Dancy...looks like a perfect little micro-climate location you have it in as well.

Like you I cannot wait for my Dancy to produce fruits...mine that was planted just a few days before yours has lots of new growths and blooms too. I'm also hoping for one or two just to taste them this winter.

Tcamp, that's a really nice tree you have!

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 3:33PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

I know yours.was a typo however I found the tree at McKinley farmstead its not my tree but he has some That will take down to 10 degrees not -10? just thought I would share the link with people so they could find cold Hardy trees.
Trace

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 4:35PM
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Steve, Z (6Bground,5B roof) Cincy,OH

Isn't it amazing how much better trees in ground grow than their potted brother grow. Nice inground trees you all.

Trace How big was your 10 degree tangerine tree when you bought it. I had thought about getting one, but I have alway been to sceptical of these type of wondrous claims.

Steve

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:26PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

Havnt got one yet the pic is from the website im ordering one next week to plant at moms house to see how it does.
Trace

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 9:51PM
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