Are they Echeverias?

kwie2011August 10, 2014

I can't shop at this store anymore! They put these at the entrance and checkout for $1 each, and I can't resist the impulse to buy them!

Here are my 3 most recent acquisitions. I'm going to guess all 3 are Echeveria or intergenera Echeveria hybrids - maybe 2 Echeverias and a Graptoveria, or Echeveria, Sedaveria, and graptoveria. I don't know why I think that. Total guesses because I really don't know how to tell Graptoveria from Echeveria from Graptopetalum from Sempervivum from Shinola, so... Care to correct or confirm my guesses?

Thanks as always for any help!

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DavidL.ca

Graptoveria is possible for the middle one, but I'd say it's more of a Pachyphytum or Pachyveria.. Pachyveria glauca, maybe?
I think the other two are just echies.

I don't blame you, that's some good deals to pass on! Succs here are so expensive I wish I can see deals like that.. Enjoy these little guys

    Bookmark   August 10, 2014 at 2:22PM
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kwie2011

Thanks as always, David!

You might try calling your Walgreens, Grocery Outlet, and Lowe's stores. I'm thinking these chains probably have the same little plants for similar prices. The Walgreens display is apparently a one-time thing, but that's where I got the Lithops and Aeonium arboreum. The display and plants are tiny, but there is an exceptional variety, including many cacti. Lowe's periodically gets shipments that include Lithops, Fenestraria, Haworthia, and Pleispilos (just spelled that wrong, but you know what I mean). The customer service people told me the cool ones go fast, and there's no telling when they'll get a shipment, but they encouraged me to call.

When I have offsets and so on to spare, I'll happily trade with you, or send some for the cost of postage. I don't have a lot of room, so when these things take off, I might NEED someone to take some off my hands! :-D

    Bookmark   August 10, 2014 at 2:57PM
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rina_

Just a guess from me - the middle one reminds me Pachyveria I have - it was labeled P. Little Jewel...Rina

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 1:35AM
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rina_

Could the last one be Echeveria Perle von Nurnberg (or maybe E. gibbiflora metallica)?

Hope someone corrects me if wrong on either or both...
Rina

This post was edited by rina_ on Mon, Aug 11, 14 at 1:46

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 1:41AM
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kwie2011

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a match!

You just made my day, Rina! I LOVE perl von nurnberg and lust over photos of it whenever I see them. I can hardly believe it, but I think you're right! Happy dance! Can't believe I stumbled onto one by accident.

And you've confirmed Dave's Pachyveria gauca for the little green Jewel too. Yours is lovely. I'm glad to see it retains its pretty shape as it matures. Both your plants are beautiful. Thanks so much for the ID help and for sharing your photos.

Since you're on such a roll, Rina, would you like to take a stab at the one in this photo? It'd just a little guy.

I'm too excited over @#$% plants. I might need professional help. ;-D

Thanks Rina, and thanks again, David!

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 2:34AM
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DavidL.ca

Yea, it's Perle von Nurnberg! I think I have a few seedling growing from leaf cuttings too, so glad for the ID :D

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 5:40AM
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rina_

Sorry kwie, but I don't know. I just hope 2 above are correct.

And yes, Perle grows from leaves easily, here is just one small sample....
They were inside so the color is more green; with sun, color is more pink/purplish.
Rina

This post was edited by rina_ on Mon, Aug 11, 14 at 8:27

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 8:24AM
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kwie2011

Look at those cute little babies! How long did they take to sprout? Did either of you use rooting hormone? Just left in dry soil? Sprayed them?

I've sprouted several plants from leaves, but haven't had any luck with any Echeverias or Aeoniums yet. I've been laying them on their sides or backs to root them. They just shriveled up after a few days. Echeveria ronyonii specifically has been disappointing, but the leaves have been just a little bruised. They're very plump, but very delicate leaves.

Curious, do plants started from leaves have a tap root like seedlings, or just sloppy roots everywhere like those started from cuttings?

I want to raid the stores again for leaves before their plants are all gone for the season. No one seems to mind if I pocket all the fallen leaves.
They just think I'm OCD or bat-s!@#$ crazy and leaf me alone. Hehehehe.

Lovely little plants guys. Can't wait to have little babies of my own (plants). :-D. What fun.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 9:55AM
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DavidL.ca

I'm new with propagating too and I just leave my leaves under filtered light without any medium for a week or so until they callous and starts to sprout some roots then I plant them into the medium (70% perlite 30% soil). And then I mist them every other day with occasional watering the top 2 inches of the soil.
I had 5 Perle leaves and 4 of them had baby plants now. But this one is doing the best, I'm not sure which kind it is but I think it's some kind of echies.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 12:12PM
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a_shau(San Francisco 8b)

Hi! I don't think that aeoniums can propagate from their leaves, just mainly by the stems. Also, I have noticed that the most successful of my leaf propagations have been of echeverias whose leaves are a bit plump, and the skin a little on the shinier side (vs matted). So far, I have successfully propagated from leaves the following:

- black prince echeveria (SUPER easy)
- red pagoda (SUPER easy)
- stonecrop sedum seiboldii (takes a long time)
- jelly beans- sedum rubrotinctum
- jade (crassula ovata)
- sedum pachyphyllum (very similar to jellybeans)
- one kind of graptosedum (ghosty?)
- and some other sort of graptoveria/graptosedum - like succulent
- orchid cactus

I've had no luck with one of my hen & chicks echeveria (with fleshy, matted leaves) and frankly just haven't tried with the echeverias with thinner leaves that I have.

(Aeoniums, as well as a bunch of other succulents - I have successfully propagated using the whole stem.)

Dave's method sounds really interesting and faster than what I've been doing. I'm definitely trying it! For leaf propagation, my method right now is:

- Pull the leaves off carefully, making sure to get the whole base of the leaf that was attached to the stem (I believe that's where the root hormones are) and then just stick them into cactus mix.

- The leaves should be healthy leaves, not ones that are starting to wither and die. Also, the closer the leaf is to the center of the rosette, the stronger the root hormones will be.

- I don't water it of course, but I also don't bother leaving the leaf out to dry beforehand because I think it ends up drying out in the soil. I don't even mist it. I used to and that didn't help, and in fact only killed them.

- I also leave it in a bright but not sunny area, so they don't scorch or dry out. I think it helps if they are in a moderate temp/warm area - whatever that is not too cold.

- After (an excruciatingly long) 2 weeks or so, I give the leaves a very very gentle tug to see if they move easily. If they don't, that means they've started to root. I've also taken to taking a spoon and digging (gently!) around the leaf are to take up the whole thing to see if there's a clump of soil that sticks around the base of the leaf - that's another way to see if roots have formed, and in my opinion a safer way to do it without knocking the roots off.

- If they have rooted, then I start misting around the base of the leaf, just to get the soil around the roots wet. I don't mist the leaves themselves - I don't believe that really does anything, but I do make sure the soil around the leaves gets very wet (don't worry they will end up drying out within a day or two since it's mainly the surface -where the roots are - that's getting wet.)

- In this stage I still leave them in a bright but not direct sun area.

- After (an excruciating!) another few weeks, sometimes tiny leaves appear, and when they get bigger (a few millimeters in width?) is when I start moving them closer or into the sun.

- At this point I watch them carefully to make sure they don't scorch, and I definitely give them water at the roots whenever the soil is dry. I know many say not to water succulents often, which I generally agree with, but I think that as these guys are seedlings and small, they are in super growth mode and can definitely take the water in as they produce tons and tons of new leaves from the center.

- As the new plant grows it takes in the nutrients of the old leaf, so do not remove the old leaf until it's really black and
shrivelled up.

- Sometimes it just doesn't work and the leaves shrivel up and die and that's that. But I have to say that I've had probably a 90%+ success rate on the plants I listed above.

Anyway it's a really slow going process and some succulents grow faster than others (black prince, graptosedum, red pagoda) but it's definitely super fun and rewarding to watch them develop.

Also my way of growing them is by no means the definitive way to do it, it's just the way I've found it to work for me where I live, so I thought I'd share!

Here are a couple of links to some posts on my adventures in propagation:

Leaf propagation in egg carton and checking for clumps of soil. Don't worry, each of those egg cups has a hole at the bottom!

Leaf roots

Rectangular box of leaves that did NOT work. (From this I gleaned that the leaf should be IN the soil, and no misting until rooting occurs!)

Stonecrop leaf propagation

This post was edited by a.shau on Mon, Aug 11, 14 at 13:56

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 1:51PM
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rina_

a.shau

That is too 'technical' for me...lol, just kidding.
But seriously, I don't fuss with them at all. I just leave fallen leaves wherever they fall, and most of them start growing. I don't spray them, they get watered with other plants whenever - very often the leaf has fallen into another pot - see this one that started growing with a Ludisia orchid - I started that orchid from a root cutting - and neither of them seems to mind sharing the pot! Interestingly, pot is in pretty sunny spot, and Ludisia is still doing OK (they are both bigger now, don't have more recent photo).

I don't even bother 'burrying' the leaves into mix most often - the roots usually find their way. And I don't use any rooting hormone either.
Rina

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 8:23PM
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DavidL.ca

Agreed with Rina. Of course the more technical way will work great too, but these things really propagate themselves quite well and easily! My donkey's tail has done the same, the leaves fall everywhere and I just put them back into the pot and it starts to grow new baby plants

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 8:28PM
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DavidL.ca

Agreed with Rina. Of course the more technical way will work great too, but these things really propagate themselves quite well and easily! My donkey's tail has done the same, the leaves fall everywhere and I just put them back into the pot and it starts to grow new baby plants

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 8:29PM
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rina_

If interested, have a look at this link to see leaves left without spraying, growth hormone and similar; they were put on top of the soil when 'babies' started to grow:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cacti/msg0518542432537.html

Rina

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 9:12PM
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kwie2011

A.shau - very cool. Thanks! How long do the Sedum rubrotinctum leaves take to root? I have dozens just sitting there. Occasionally, one shrivels and I toss it, but the others just mock me.

Rina - is that little guy with your orchid a pachyphytum? I'm working on my ID skills. I have various leaves lying in different pits also. I've left or placed them there hoping I'll forget them and one day find a surprise plantlet.

David - Burro's Tail, really? I rescued some leaves from Lowe's a week or two ago (doing my crazy OCD impression so I don't get arrested), but I haven't had much hope for them. Some are scarred from splitting from too much water, and others are shriveled from not enough. How long before you see growth, or have you even noticed? If mine don't make it, I want leaves! LOL

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 9:58PM
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rosemariero(Z9 SW SUNDiegoCA)

Jumping in...
Looks like an xGrapto-something for one on the left.
Middle, xPachyphtum glauca, but I don't think it's 'Little Jewel'. (Could be wrong though)
Right, Yes, Echeveria 'Perle von Nurnberg'.

I think the "little guy" needs to grow some more before we can take a crack at its ID.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 10:53PM
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rina_

kwie, that's xGraptoveria Royal flush according to my files.
I have pachyphytum oviferum (again, hope my file is correct) that I nicknamed 'chubby' - leaves are thicker and rounder - see photo (baby is growing from a leaf).

Rina

This post was edited by rina_ on Mon, Aug 11, 14 at 23:59

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 10:55PM
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rina_

roro, I am glad you are jumping in. I have tried to ID couple of times before and was wrong...

btw, how is your son? hope OK now?

Rina

    Bookmark   August 11, 2014 at 10:58PM
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kwie2011

Hi Rosemarie! I wondered where you were. Thanks for peeking in.

I know you'll think I'm crazy, but I found a spent inflorescence between the leaves of the funky little one in the cellophane. It had flowered before I bought it. It can't be 2" wide! I love it. I hope it keeps the same leaf shape as it, presumably, gets larger.

Rina - you did great. So, maybe a slightly different cultivar. Pretty darn close. I'm happy.

I have only my little phone screen for internet, so once again, a plant.looks very different to me. I thought I was seeing fat leaves like your little Pachyphytum has. I LOVE those fat leaves! Gotta get me one or two from that genus. They look like lollipops. Unreal. Succulents are addictive. :-)

Much thanks everyone! This is so much fun! Ooh, haven't had a chance to look at all the links yet, but I will soon.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2014 at 12:02AM
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rosemariero(Z9 SW SUNDiegoCA)

Thanks, Rina. Son is much better now. Whew! Jumping in & out, as we have several projects going at once. I suppose I'll be posting about my front yard Project PIG sometime in the future. But, if I stay in here on the computer, it won't get done! LOL

Thanks, Kwie. It is best to check for yourself, IDs given ~to see if you have some consensus. I'm not always correct. Plants change their looks as they grow, under different growing conditions. Our forum members live all over the world, so we have to keep that in mind (what you see, read, are told, etc.).

Yes, succulents are addictive! =) You would be much worse off if you could see all the goodies on a big screen, Kwie!! :D We ARE enablers!

    Bookmark   August 12, 2014 at 11:29AM
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a_shau(San Francisco 8b)

I have a Sedum rubrotinctum leaf that fell off, maybe 2-3 weeks ago? and it is starting to grow a root and a bud. that one actually just sat on top of the soil, so maybe try taking a few of your leaves gently out of the soil (to get oxygen) and see if they grow anything?

    Bookmark   August 13, 2014 at 5:51PM
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DavidL.ca

kwie you should definitely get yourself a moonstone, it's my first succulent plant ever and also what got me hooked, haha.

    Bookmark   August 13, 2014 at 7:41PM
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rina_

All you need is a leaf or two...
Some critter tried to chew on it-picked good spots! (sorry for the photo 'quality', taken with old phone.)

Rina

This post was edited by rina_ on Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 21:25

    Bookmark   August 13, 2014 at 9:24PM
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kwie2011

Aaaaaaargh! I'll be like one of those crazy hoarders - just me and my plants - one of every kind.

I swiped stonecrop and sempervivum form a yard today. I'm demented.

Anyone wanna sell me a Pachyphytum or Echeveria leaf or two? Just a leaf. That's all I ask. Hehehehehe.

Especially that black prince Echeveria, a.shau! Unreal! Why did I even look it up???? I'm killing myself. It'll go on my list of much coveted succulents along with the crested Aeoniums, A. arboreum zarkopf, and... ooh, 'Perle von Nurnberg' used to be on that list.

Oh! I forgot to thank you for the propagation info on Aeoniums. Very useful to know they don't propagate from leaves. Wonder why I never looked that up. Doh!

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 12:48AM
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rina_

Watch out, you could get hurt...better to ask!
Many members here will gladly give you leaves or cuttings for postage.

All it takes is a very small plant (for you guys, prices are better & choices too than for us in Canada-at least I think so). And then propagate.
No fuss with most of them, let the leaves do their thing.
Obviously, not everything is so easy to grow from leaves.

This post was edited by rina_ on Thu, Aug 14, 14 at 8:46

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 8:45AM
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a_shau(San Francisco 8b)

rina - on that latest pic you posted, once the roots and plants form, do you spray/water those roots at all or do you just leave them alone? i'm going to try this method of just leaving leaves out!

kwie - if you want to priv msg me your address i can try to find a way to send you a couple of my baby black princes if you want.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 2:21PM
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rina_

a.shau

Most often I don't spray or mist, some do. If it was too hot for too long, I probably would.
Once I put them on soil (usually just on top, seldom bother burying-especially when there is so many), I would water them just like any other succulent.

If you get the leaves & put them directly on top of soil, the roots will 'find' their way (see photo).
I do stick some leaves into soil too, works both ways.
Rina

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 12:50AM
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a_shau(San Francisco 8b)

thanks - so interesting! will be trying your method next!

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 1:52PM
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kwie2011

A.shau - very cool of you! I emailed you. Had trouble getting it to go through. Watch for email from KW or my user name at AOL.com.

What would you guys say your success rate is with rooting leaves? I have a couple of trays of assorted leaves, some of which I know, some I don't. Some I removed, while others were damaged, fell off, or I picked up off a display table, so I know mine are a craps shoot, but I'm curious what would be normal.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 8:16PM
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LilBit7765

I'd say the MAJORITY of mine root but not all actually have grown baby plants :( I don't know if I should wait LONGER or just say hey ain't gonna happen lol

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 8:32PM
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kwie2011

Thanks, LilBit.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 2:02PM
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LilBit7765

You're welcome

    Bookmark   August 16, 2014 at 5:48PM
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a_shau(San Francisco 8b)

kwie - just sent you an email directly from my email. for some reason i never got the email from the gardenweb interface.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2014 at 1:37PM
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