please tell me this is just a bit of rot...

rialiraOctober 13, 2009

...and not something worse?


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kasha77

That does NOT look good! I think it's a virus- but I'll let someone else confirm that! Good luck!
kasha77

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 7:41PM
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karyn1(7a)

I don't think it's rot. The dark ring around the lesion is a pretty good indication of SB but I can't be absolutely positive that's what you have going on. The lesions usually start as a small spot with a dark ring and progress to something that looks like that. Are there any more lesions? Is that a cutting or a plant? Either way I'd bag it and put it in the trash. Sorry.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:08PM
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givelittle_getlots(Zone 8 TX)

I have to agree with Karyn. The splitting wood is a sign of SB also if I remember correctly.

Get rid of it.

Lucy

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:29PM
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rialira

it's a whole plant that I've had for years with no problems :\ I got it from logee's and I haven't gotten any brugs in any trades with anything that looks remotely like this D: can it really just POP UP with no warning?

out of all of my brugs, this one barely got ANY sun because it was completely shaded by the other brugs. could that have something to do with it?

if it matters, that part in the middle of the ring is very dry, and I'm really hoping it's just a stress thing, like the branch was bent and rehealed...

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:32PM
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figara(Ca 9)

Only one brunch is affected?
What a SB stands for?

Pat

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:48PM
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rialira

hang on a minute - didn't we have a huge problem with blighted tomatoes here in the northeast cause the weather was so wet and cold? I know mine grew like crap and they all kind of withered away. think that could have spread to my brug?

I just really cannot fathom HOW this could be SB, and I'm not believing it. I've had this plant for years from a reputable nursery, and I haven't gotten any plants in with anything like this, nor have I shared cutting tools with which it might have been spread.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:51PM
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rialira

I think it's one branch, yeah..

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 8:52PM
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karyn1(7a)

I had SB pop up on a plant that I'd had for several years and I have no idea how it became infected. For some reason I think yellows are more susecptible but I might be remembering that incorrectly. I'm not sure if SB might lie dormant and some type of stress causes it to manifest itself. That doesn't look like a blight to me. I'd get rid of it immediately but that's your choice.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 10:27PM
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rialira

yeah, it's a yellow. how bizarre :\ we're really sure it can't just be scarring? sometimes I'm lazy when I pick leaves off and it strips a bit of the bark... I'm really grasping here, heh.

the thing is, it's got scars at its base from the same type of lesions, which to me would indicate that it's been afflicted for some time now without displaying any adverse effects...

I thoroughly checked over the rest of my brugs and there's nothing that looks remotely like that on ANY of them. so I'm guessing you're right about it lying dormant, kind of like what I've read about the incense virus? do you think I should give logee's a call and ask them about it?

regardless, I just can't justify destroying this plant; even if it appears as though it's stricken with SB, it's appeared so for a while without acting the slightest bit sickly. I think I'll give it to a friend of mine who doesn't have any other solanaceae to which the fungus could be passed. I don't want to risk it spreading, but I really can't kill the plant - it was my first brug and I'm really sentimental about it.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 11:12PM
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peony_tx

It's not a fungus, it's a virus. I wouldn't give it to anyone, knowing it's diseased. Your call, but I'm just saying . . .

    Bookmark   October 13, 2009 at 11:50PM
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karyn1(7a)

Ria I hate to say this but you are grasping. That's not a normal scar and hearing that it is a yellow makes me even more suspicious. If the dark ring wasn't there I'd feel differently. If you are determined to keep the plant why don't you take some cuttings from unaffected branches and bag the rest of the plant. I'm not sure that the virus can lie dormant. That's just speculation on my part but you could keep the cuttings segregated and see how they do. I wouldn't give this plant to anyone with the knowledge that's it's possibly infected regardless if they have any other solanums or not.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 6:44AM
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givelittle_getlots(Zone 8 TX)

ok here I go. From what I learnedis that SB can and will stay dormant for years. If a plant can have SB but never break out. But it can pass it on to a new plant that is easier in breaking out with it. Yellows have it the most. The plant will ALWAYS have SB and I truly can not see any good for a normal gardener to keep a SB infected plant around and taking the risk in infecting the others.

No that is just an overall memory gathering from what I learned about it.

Got to take Maddy to school now but even though no one like it when you discover SB and it is a horror moment and the next year until they grow again and you see that none of you other plants got infected...but then life goes on.

That why it is ALWAYS very important...listen up newbies....that when you add new plants or get cuttings...that you always keep them isolated from your other brugs until you are sure that the new plants do not have SB. The sender can not even know the plant had it...because things like shipping stress...temperature changes etc...can and will bring out SB if the plant carries it and is one that actually shows it.

ok got to run

Lucy

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 8:11AM
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ruth_ann(Z5 Ont.Can.)

rialira Lucy is correct in that we are learning Brugmansia can harbor viruses for years and never exhibit them because the necessary set of circumstances haven't cropped up yet but when they do, then you see the SB.
SB goes on to choke out the pathways that send the nutrients from the roots to the rest of the plant,Killing it eventually. The plant seems to implode on itself, looking like it needs a strong dose of Viagra LOL.
Thus far there is no known cure/treatment and is contagious.Why on earth would you risk infecting the rest of yours and others plants by keeping the plant and/or passing it on????
Sorry, here sentiment should take a backseat to common sense.The black ring around the wound ( and yes, it may initially been just that, simply a wound)is a definitive sign of SB.The wound may be the 'right set of circumstances' for the dormant SB to show itself.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 8:40AM
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rialira

alright you guys, thanks for telling me straight, even though it hurts :\ I guess I'll just have to accept it.

well, I was never fond of the smell of that particular brug and I don't even like the color yellow anyway, LOL. so I guess I should just be glad that it wasn't one of my favorites, I mean I kept it because it was my first brug and I loved it for sentimental reasons. other than this one I only have one other yellow that I'd planned to give away too - my eye tends to read yellow as "dead leaf; pick off now," lol.

ROFL@viagra XD

huh, so it's a virus, then? I'd read that it was a fungus... how is it transmitted, other than inadequate tool sanitation/touching the plant and then touching others?

would it be okay for me to chuck the soil and leave the pot out for the winter, and then in the spring use it for passionflowers or elephant ears or something else that won't be affected by SB?

one other thing - I had a really strange brug that had peeling bark that I simply attributed to the weather being so soggy, as the plant still grew normally. there was a bit of strange textured bark, but no black rings or anything. could it be related? it was an orange I think.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 12:10PM
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sibhskylvr((Mike) Arkansas)

Ria

I'm sure it hurts to have to destroy one of your favorite Brugs! But I think you've made the right decision! Like you said - be glad it wasn't one of your favorites!

I'm rather sentimental where 'Xena' is concerned! I'd probably be feeling the same as you - if something should happen to her! :) Seems like we always remember the first! Stripping her naked has made me feel sad - but it had to be done!

Mike

A stripped 'Xena!' :)

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 12:21PM
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figara(Ca 9)

Can somebody tell me what SB stands for?
Thanks.
Pat

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 1:24PM
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peony_tx

SB stands for Stanglebrand, which is a disease.

You can read about it here:

Here is a link that might be useful: Stanglebrand

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 1:37PM
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karyn1(7a)

Ria I have no idea how a plant becomes infected, just that in times of stress it can manifest itself. I don't know if it's contagious during dormancy either. Once it's active you can't stop it and it will eventually kill the plant unlike the mosaic virus that affects P. incense which isn't lethal.

As for the pot and soil. Bag the plant and soil in plastic and dispose of it in the trash. I'd probably toss the pot too unless it's a nice container. If it is I'd soak it in a bleach solution. I wouldn't trust just leaving it out over the winter even if you aren't going to plant a brug in it.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 2:26PM
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davidwv(z6SouthernWV)

I would just like to add my opinion from first hand experience.

Yes the plant should be destroyed not doubt about it. The pot, per Karyn's advice can be sanitized using a strong bleach solution. Just be sure to cover every nook and cranny of the pot, and let the bleach stay on it for at least ten minutes.

The soil is a different matter though. If you wish to use it again for some other plant I advise that you sterilize it. There are commercial soil sanitizers that you can buy, but they are on the expensive side. I do reuse potting soil, but I sterilize it in the oven first. I use those aluminum roasting pans; fill it with soil, set the oven to at least 450 degrees and "bake" it for at least one hour.

Now to discuss "SB". It is a type of stem blight, of which there are many different species. It can be either virus or bacteria. It can be spread just like any other plant pathogens. It can be spread by splashing of water, contaminated soil, pots, gardening tools and insects.

I use the term "SB" to stand for Stem Blight. There has been much discussion that the yellow Suaveolens are the most susceptible to SB. As a generally rule this is true, however any species of brug can become infected with SB. I had an Ecuador Pink become infected with SB. So there is empirical proof that even a pure Versicolor species can become infected with SB.

Many of us long time brug growers have noticed that one day your brug can be the picture of health and the next day show the signs of SB. This usual occurs right after a period of rain and/or thunder-storms.

Also, there are even earlier signs of SB than the classic black spots at the leaf nodes. One is the appearance of small brown spots along the top of the leaf stem. If I can find a picture of that I will post it. Knowing how to spot this will give you an earlier jump on getting rid of an infected plant.

Last, you mentioned that one brug had "a bit of strange textured bark, but no black rings or anything". This is what is we call brugs having a "corky" bark texture. It will not kill the plant like SB will, it just doesn't look good. I think that Herrenhauser Garten is one of the brugs than can get this; and I believe Desiree too, both triple oranges.

I hope this helps you and everyone else that may needed to know.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2009 at 11:15PM
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rialira

damn, you guys are good! I mention stangelbrand - everyone already knows it's a yellow, and I specifically read "inca sun" in another older thread; I mention corky peeling bark - it's a desiree. I'm impressed! heh!

mike: what's all this about stripping your first naked? :P

karyn: good call, I'll bleach it. I really liked that pot, heh.

david: period of rain and thunderstorms? you mean the entire summer? :P I live in connecticut and we had exactly three weeks of sunny warm weather spread out over the season, the rest was cold and rainy. I guess I'm not really surprised :\ thank you for the clear and well written reply!

thanks everyone for your input, I really appreciate it! what a crap thing to have to deal with on my birthday, lol.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 11:01AM
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givelittle_getlots(Zone 8 TX)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ^%$#$@@ sorry Ria...rushing to the threat making place NOW

pssssssssssssst

Happy Birthday

Lucy

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 11:03AM
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tommysmommy(Colorado)

So sorry for your blighted brug! I'm gonna go check all mine out now although they haven't shown any signs of illness. All mine have scars on their trunks from 3 hailstorms this year. They got really beat up. But they are definitely hail strike scars.
Happy Birthday fellow Octoberbaby!
Diane

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 11:37AM
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peony_tx

Sooo, it Stanglebrand a type of stem blight?

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 2:27PM
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fool4flowers(8)

Here is link of pics to help identify it. Yes it looks like it to me too. Sorry Ria.

Here is a link that might be useful: Identify stranglebrand virus

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 3:03PM
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givelittle_getlots(Zone 8 TX)

Staengelbrand = german
Stem blight = the english word for the same thing. If my memory serves me correctly, Stem blight was brought into the US from Germany. Just do not kill ME if I am wrong lol

Lucy

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 3:26PM
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peony_tx

No killing here. Thanks for the information. I'm rather regretting that yellows and oranges are my favorites.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 3:30PM
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karyn1(7a)

I wish I could find my post from last year. I had pics of very early and full blown lesions. I can't remember the thread title and it wasn't SB. Nothing turned up when I did a search.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2009 at 5:47PM
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texasfern(8)

So glad I kept looking in here.
I tried an internet search and didn't get much.
I am off to check my brugs.
It is so good to have all this info, thanks guys.
Happy Belated Bday Ria

    Bookmark   October 18, 2009 at 11:08AM
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kasha77

Great Info!
Thanks everyone!

    Bookmark   October 2, 2011 at 9:52AM
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karyn1(7a)

This is the post I linked in my reply. I had some better pics posted here but can't find them. If I can find them in my PB account I'll put them up.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2011 at 10:17AM
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dirtygardener73(9a)

I feel for you. My Charles Grimaldi, which I ADORED, suddenly started splitting and eventually died. I thought it was watering related, and I got several cuttings to root, but they too died within a year, so I'm thinking it was some sort of disease. So sad to lose anything we love. I've lost a lot of my favorite plants since I moved, and it's just depressing.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2011 at 3:33PM
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