Dekopon/Sumo seedling help!

simon_growApril 20, 2012

Hello everyone, I have some Dekopon seedlings that I planted from a single Dekopon seed I found in a fruit. I planted the seed several weeks ago and last week, I partially dug up the seed to see if it sprouted or if it had rotted. When I partially dug up the seed,I saw about 6-8 sprouts coming out of the seed. I took my finest pair of tweezers to see if I could gently seperate the seedlings but they were pretty much stuck together.

Should I try again to seperate the seedlings? I was thinking that I could let the seedlings grow a little stronger so that the roots wont be as brittle and maybe they will even be a little more seperated. When I tried to seperate them the fist time, I could see the cracks between some of the clones but they felt like they were still partially fused together. Should I just leave the seedlings alone and grow them all as a single bush?

Also, is there a way I can tell which seedling is zygotic? I assume its got to be the strongest or weakest one. Do zygotic seedlings sprout first or last? Thanks in advance!

Simon

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mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

Well personally if I were you. I would let what ever sprouts grow no matter what since the seeds are very rare. Let them grow until you have some size to work with.

Im just a dummy though.
mike

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 10:54PM
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houstontexas123(z9a)

i concur with mike. too risky right now to try to separate.

    Bookmark   April 21, 2012 at 2:29AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

No, no. Do not separate, now. Allow the seedlings to sprout. Your zygotic seedlings usually come up later than the nuclear seedling or seedlings, and the clonal seedlings often overtake the zygotic seedling, which will die off. The seedlings that are the most vigorous and sprout first most likely will be your clones. You can separate after they've gotten a little bigger and try growing them all. Just label them accordingly, so as they get bigger, you know which is the hybrid and which is the clone.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   April 21, 2012 at 9:52AM
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simon_grow

Thanks for everyones help! I will let them grow now and try to separate them when they are a little more mature. If they are too difficult to separate them when they are older, I will just grow all of them to a large size and attempt to bud each grown seedling onto another tree. I have sprouts so far so I guess at least one of them is a clone, I hope?
Simon

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 12:58AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

I would think so, Simon. Polyembryonic citrus tend to send out clone spouts the majority of the time. Odds are in your favor :-)

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 10:46AM
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simon_grow

Hey Patty, do you have any experience in budding citrus? When my seedlings get larger, perhaps you can take some buds from my seedlings and bud them onto some of your citrus trees. I would like to distribute some of the scions from these seedlings(when they reach the appropriate size) in case I accidentally kill them. You live in San Diego County so we shouldn't have any issues with the citrus quarantine.
Simon

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 5:39PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

No experience grafting citrus, just stone fruit, Simon. But, you have some really experienced grafters within our San Diego and N. San Diego County CRFG's. Are you a member? Really a wonderful group of folks. Love my N. San Diego chapter a bunch. I'd love to try, but I'd feel terrible if I wasn't successful with such a special seedling!

Patty S.

Here is a link that might be useful: San Diego CFRG Chapter

    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 12:31AM
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simon_grow

Hey Patty, I'm not an actual memeber I just know some of the members. I've done grafting of several varieties of tropical and subtropicals but I have not grafted citrus yet. I'm going to experiment with some of my citrus next month and hopefully I can get T-budding down in time to bud these Dekopon seedlings.

Patty, how is your Smith Red Valencia doing? The one I ordered from Four Winds was really small so I found a larger one in a 5 gallon container. I planted it in the ground about two weeks ago and it is flowering and holding some tiny fruit so far.
Simon

    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 5:19PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Very small, still, Simon. But, I do see some flush, so hopefully I can get a bit of size. So, where did you find one in a 5-gal container??

Patty S.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 11:21PM
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simon_grow

Hey Patty, I got it at Clifton's Nursery. It is much larger than the one I got at FourWinds and will probably save you about two years.

http://www.buyplantsonline.com/smith-red-blood-orange-tree-dwarf.html

Simon

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 2:51PM
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morbo

I too have be so fortunate as to have a store bought Sumo with a lucky viable seed grow into 3 taller shoots! and 1 runtish small one. Each shoot is about an inch high off the soil ea w/2 small leaves. Is it time to separate the 3 viable shoots?

From what I read, these will become fruit bearing Sumo trees in 7+ years, with much luck and tlc.

Thanks!

Hedley

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 11:33PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Wait a bit yet, morbo. You will want to see at least 1 to 2 sets of real leaves before you separate out your seedlings. Your largest and most vigorous seedling will be the clone. But, since Dekopons are grown in large blocks, so all your seedlings may indeed, end up being Dekopons and not a hybrid (or, Dekopon x Dekopon hybrids). They are easier to separate when they're a little larger.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 12:17AM
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morbo

Thanks Patty! I will wait. Should I wait for the runt one to get to real leaf stage before separating all 4 or start separating when the fast growers get to real leaf stage?

So exciting all this :) (excitement played out over a decade to come of course)

Hedley

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 12:56PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Wait until the leaves harden up a bit.
Seedlings at this stage are delicate.

Josh

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 3:34PM
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morbo

Thanks for the advice! Separation went smoothly. Now you see four Dekopon trees "to be".

:)

H.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 5:47PM
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australis

Hi Sumo Growers !!! :)

Any chance one of you folks could pass me a seed ?

I am in europe and see no chance to get a Sumo/Dekopon ...

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 1:28PM
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Scott_6B

Morbo, Looking good. I've gone through several Dekopon/Sumo/Shiranui fruit over the last two years and have yet to find a single seed.
Although I did (to my surprise) see a good 3-4ft 5gal one for sale at a local garden center here in MA this spring. I just saw a really nice Ortanique at the same garden center this past weekend too, go figure...

Sanguinello? err... Australis ;) How are you doing? I recognized your writing style from one of your other recent posts. Since Dekopon's have so few seeds and the trees still are not openly available in California, you would be quite fortunate to find someone willing to send a seed to you. You'll also probably have to wait at least until February, when they are in season again.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 4:43PM
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datura222

Morbo: how are those seedlings doing?

Will you keep them indoors or are they hardy enough to be planted outside?

I have 4 seedlings which are doing great....I am just not sure if I can plant them in the ground here in Sunset Zone 15 (9b)?

    Bookmark   January 20, 2014 at 9:26PM
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morbo

Hi mia1974,

All 4 are doing well. Some slight leaf curling at higher elevations (prob not enough water). Its been 8mo now approx since they sprouted from a rare Whole food Sumo orange seed. They are 20", 15" & 12" from r->l

I may pot into larger pots and put them out on the deck. I think I too am in a sunset zone15 (Cupertino,CA). After they outgrow that deck pot, it would be to the garden for the 3. The small one (per Patty) will not produce fruit so I am disinclined to garden that one.

Hedley

This post was edited by morbo on Tue, Feb 4, 14 at 13:13

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 1:06PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Well, it's not that it won't produce fruit, Hedley, just that the smaller and later of the multiple seedlings coming from the same seed are almost always your hybrids, and not your clones. So, you may have a very nice mandarin hybrid that is not a Dekopon clone :-)

Patty S.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:58PM
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datura222

Hedley: do your seedlings have thorns? Is this a normal?

My 4 seedlings are about the same size...I am in S. San Jose. My other mandarin citrus survived ok, so maybe i will attempt 2 seedlings outside soon....

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 12:38AM
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morbo

Hi mia1974,

Yes, thorns. 3 of them do. The one that Patty mentions, the hybrid, doesn't seem to have them. So, it seems for me the clones have thorns, the hybrid, no.

Good to know your outdoor citrus survived the winter. This zone doesn't seem to get too cold for too long. Could use a lot more wet weather though.

Hedley

    Bookmark   February 14, 2014 at 2:52PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

How are they dpoing would really like to find seed

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 11:31PM
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CupertinoWalt

I was very excited about the idea of growing Sumo Citrus from seed. I bought one fruit (it cost $2.87!) and there were no seeds. The fruit was very tasty but I was disappointed with no seeds to plant!

    Bookmark   April 5, 2014 at 7:27PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

I ate about 25 fruits this sumer not one seed fruits here are 4.25 each.
Trace

    Bookmark   April 5, 2014 at 10:56PM
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cyh527

@scott_6B did you happen to catch what nursery your Shiranui is from?

    Bookmark   April 20, 2014 at 5:13PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

How are your seedlings doing.
Trace

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 1:24AM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

I've heard raves about this fruit. Does anyone think it needs any special environment to attain its legendary taste?

For example, I just bought some 'Minneola' tangelos from Peru and they don't have the same flavor as a Florida Minneola. It was great, but just not quite as complex, with fewer grapefruit overtones, if that makes sense. More like a regular, very sweet mandarin.

And I've heard the Ugli fruit needs just the right climate as well.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 12:24PM
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RyanLo(NC 7B)

Dave, Since the Dekopans we taste are from the southern interior valley of CA I would think to achieve the flavor you are expecting you would try and mirror that climate. A warm dry long summer and a cool short winter with warm days and cold nights, Humidity is low. As out of zone as we are it might be a challenge to create this climate without a greenhouse.

As far as the large size - Ive found with them this year, like most citrus, if you want large fruit you have to find the right balance of tree seize and fruit number. Of the 4 I have, the one with the largest fruit has the least number. However, even the 2 I didn't thin have large fruit, just not as large. Right now they are about the difference between a baseball and softball.

Dave, If you don't have a tree you are missing out, they are a citrus grower/enthusiast's dream in almost every way! Available at Harris Citrus in FL.

This post was edited by RyanLo on Mon, Sep 15, 14 at 14:30

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 2:27PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

I have a sumo tree just wondering how his seedling where doing. They say after u pick them to let them set 15 to 40 days for the acid to go down. So the sugar goes up that's what it was saying on web site. I don't know about that when they rippen on my tree I will try one and see.
Trace

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 4:05PM
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RyanLo(NC 7B)

Tcamp, probably around March or later they would be ripening. Ive herd about the leaving the fruit out. Be careful when doing this for that long because it might rot unless dipped in a fungicide and stored correctly. Ill just pick mine when they are ready,

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 4:20PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

Same here lol don't plan to leave them out like that lol.
Trace

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 5:58PM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

RyanLo, I may have to try one!

I have 'Early Armstrong' in a pot and I do enjoy that the fruits ripen in late Fall / early winter.

I don't have a greenhouse, so I wonder if late-bearing fruit could hang on most of the winter in my garage and still ripen properly.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2014 at 2:50PM
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