Foliage-Pro Question

jerry_dApril 25, 2010

To Meyer Mike, Andrew and others who are using Foliage-Pro and vinegar to fertilize their container citrus. My question is: Do I need to supplement Foliage-Pro and vinegar with any other citrus fertilizer(s) or are FP and vinegar alone enough?

I have been using FP and vinegar and no other fertilizer on my calamondin everytime I water the plant for the past few months and the results have been very positive... lots of new foliage that is shiny and robust and very healthy. I also am using FP and vinegar on my new Meyer Lemon that I have had for just a couple of weeks now and that looks good too. I plan to continue with this regimen when I move the citrus outside for the summer in the next few weeks. Just want to make sure that I don't need to apply another fertilizer too. Thanks.

Jerry

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Andrew Scott

Hello Jerry,
I am glad to hear that you are on board with the FP and the white vinegar. I don't think you really need to use any other fertilizer with your regimen. Do you have citrus fertilizer? What you can do is compare the ingriedents of the FP and the citrus ferilizer and see if eitther fertilizers are lacking. My parents brought me back a nice back a 10 pound bag of Sunnyland citus and tropical fruit fertilizer. It is a 6-4-6 analysis. The directions are to apply once a month so I do use it. I like the idea of using it because I know that there are trace nutrients that the citrus need and that's my way of trying to get those nutrients to the trees. Mike has citrus fertilizer but since he started using th FP and white vinegar he stopped using the citrus fertilizer. He told me that it wasn't working for his citrus. I say just experiment with it and always use half the recommended dose. One of my orchid books suggests weekly weakly which I think is great advise. With the citrus every time I need to water I use the FP and the white vinegar. Good luck and I am happy your citrus are doing really good. I noticed a change with mine when I started using the FP and the white vinegar.
Andrew

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 5:22PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

Not at all...:-)

The only thing that I notice is that my fertilizer does not do it's job as well when the plant is subjected to harsh conditions or changes in environment..

Such as, cold nights and warm days, fluctuations in temps, too much watering, not enough and so on. When my cultural habits and the environment match the fertilizer, in fact any, the plants respond very well..

Therefore, my plants are loosing their nice green color because I have been leaving my plants subjected to the elements outdoors, in particular fluctuations in temps, not to be blamed on my fertilizer..The nature of the beast, and to be expected..

Mike..:-)

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 5:48PM
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jerry_d

Thanks guys for the input. Andrew, yes I do have some citrus fertilizer that I ordered from a company in Florida a couple of years ago. It's a four pound bag of Rite Green Citrus 4-6-8 Fertilizer manufactured by Sunniland Corporation in Sanford Florida. The problem is I can't figure out how to use it because all the directions for use are for citrus planted in the ground and not in containers. For example, "Apply fertilizer in a circle beginning half way from the trunk to the "drip line" and extending about an equal distance from the "drip line." Also I can't figure out how much to use and don't want to take a chance on killing my citrus. The instructions state to use 1 cup of the fertilizer per month during the growing season, which would undoubtedly kill a small citrus in a container. Since I am having good results with FP and vinegar, why take a chance. So this fertilizer just sits on a shelf in my garage until I can figure out what to do with it.

Jerry

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 8:07PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

Does does mine Jerry..loll

I too bought that stuff, and it sits in my Garage after 2 years..loll

Mike..:-)

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 8:40PM
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Andrew Scott

Hello Jerry,
Don't worry, my directions are also the same. I used 2 teaspoons and just lightly scattered it around the soil avoiding the trunk of the tree. I have done this twice all ready and my Oro Blanco put out a bunch of vegatative buds but they have not grown yet. Iused the citrus fertilizer the same way you might apply a time release fertilizer like Osmocote. Next time I do it, I will take a picture and post it here so you can see what I mean. I really do think it helped my trees and I have a bunch of other tropical fruits that I used it on and they seem happy now.
Andrew

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 12:14AM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

Andrew, are you saying that you use this in conjunction with your FP?

Thanks

Mike..:-)

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 12:43PM
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jerry_d

Andrew, I have the same questions that Mike posed in the message above. Are you applying Sunniland fertilizer and FP at the same time? I don't want to over-apply fertilizer. I did compare the analysis of Sunniland and FP and FP has all of the elements found in the Sunniland fertiler but in slightly greater strength for most elements. Also FP contains Zinc and Cobalt in small amounts, but neither element is listed in the Sunliland fertilizer analysis. So unless there is some reason why I should be using two fertilizers simultaneously, I will stick with FP and white vinegar as that regimen seems to be working really well for me.

Mike, I can't thank you enough for sharing the information on FP and white vinegar. Also, thanks for being so patient with everyone over the years. I know that you have responded to the same questions over and over as new folks join the citrus forum, but you are always pleasant with everyone and are glad to share your knowledge. So many forum regulars from the past have disappeared. I think they got tired of answering the same questions all the time. So you have filled a real void.

Jerry

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 8:08PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

Jerry, you are so welcome. Thank you for your kind words of appreciation..

Many here are always willing to help us, even certain ones who still come here are still teaching me. In fact one in particular has a vast knowledge of insects and many other things. She is a GIFT here.

You should see all the info she has given through the years, in fact one of my mentors..

You should give most credit to yourself, since you are the one who has taken all you have learned, put it to good use, and succeeded!I am learning from you too..

Mike..:-)

    Bookmark   April 27, 2010 at 9:36AM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

I wouldn't use the Rite Green fertilizer on "Container" citrus. That one in particular is not recommended for containers and "might" burn your roots if you use it. I actually called MG once because I wanted to use one of their citrus fertilizer on my potted plants...but none of the directions had any container use in it...so I called and they told me NOT to use it for potted or containers. They said it would be best to look for something that specifically is made for containers like Osmocote or Dyna-Grow and others that are usually slow release...and won't burn your plants roots. Just my experience for what its worth. Good luck with your tree Jerry...sounds like its dong well, enjoy!

Hi Mike and Andrew!!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2010 at 4:53PM
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jerry_d

Mike, who is your mystery mentor. Is it Toni? She has given me and others a lot of good advice over the years.

Puglvr1, thanks for the warning on using Rite Green fertilizer on citrus in containers. Things are going so well with Foliage-Pro and white vinegar, why mess with a good thing? I take it you have a pug. I have a 5-year old whippet named Shannon. She is an extremely beautiful and elegant dog and very well mannered too except when she picks fruit off my calamondin...

Andrew, I look forward to seeing more pictures of your citrus. The pics you have posted in the past have been awesome.

Can hardly wait to move my citrus outside, but the cold is persisting with a frost warning tonight... so I am afraid it is going to be awhile before they can go outdoors...

Jerry

    Bookmark   April 27, 2010 at 9:22PM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Hi Jerry, yes I have a pug by the name of Max...he is a very outgoing, friendly and very rambunctious! He doesn't have the best manners at all,lol...but a SUPER dog! Shannon sounds great, I'm sure Max will love her.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2010 at 4:41PM
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zecowsay

I wonder if what puglv1 said is what has been causing problems with some of my trees. I had an oroblanco that did extremely well the first week I had it, then dropped leaves like crazy. A couple of weeks went by and it did fine, even bloomed... then it dropped perfectly healthy green leaves again. The only thing those two have in common is that I used MG miracid the day before each period of leaf drop. I thought maybe the roots were getting burned after the last time.. now it seems to be so.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2010 at 11:03PM
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plant54

Foliage-Pro is not needed to grow citrus. What is needed is drainage, Ferilizer and light. Some citrus more need more heat.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 5:29PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Foliage Pro is a fertilizer.

Josh

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 5:33PM
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plant54

Josh, So your point being is what? In viewing this product I found it offers nothing more than a good water soluble would offer.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 7:01PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Five simple words.
Foliage Pro is a fertilizer, and Foliage Pro is enough.

Did you bother reading the original inquiry?

Josh

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 7:53PM
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meyermike_1micha(5)

False..It offers a lot more than any fertilizer I ever saw over years..

IF you can find another with Ca in it, please share..Even MG can't compare, just ask my plants....

Thanks

MIke..:-)

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 7:55PM
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Andrew Scott

Hello Mike,
Sorry I have not been here lately. I have been on tropical fruit forum and doing research on growing a cherimoya ina pot. I do use the citrus fertilizer and the FP. I only scatter a small amount on the top of the soil mix once every month. I use the FP more often, pretty much whenever they are watered but if it rains then it may be a few days before I use the FP. I am concerned right now with the Oro Blanco. I have lost 2 more leafs in the past 2 weeks and have yet to see any more leaf growth. I now have 3 entire branches with no leaves on them. I still have vegatative buds but they are not doing anything and one of the smallest branches turned brown and died. I hope it starts growing soon. Weather outdoors has been nice though and the cold nights I think are finally behind us.
Andrew

    Bookmark   May 1, 2010 at 8:02PM
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ashleysf(9 San Jose,CA)

The above posters are right - do not use a fertilizer that does not explicitly say it is safe for containers. I burnt and killed an avocado tree that was in a container by applying a citrus/avo fertilizer that only had instructions for in-ground tres.
I use "vigoro" brand citrus fertilizer in my pots (2-3 tsps every month - this is slow release and is suitable for containers). the label says to apply every 3 months - but since the water drains out every time I water, I increase the frequency of fertilizer to every month to make up for the amount lost during drainage (I get it at HD).
I also use FP and vinegar at every 3rd watering (very weak application - 1 tsp of each per gallon of tap water). I do not find it necessary to fertilize at each watering - no time to do so and no difference observed on my plants if I step up the FP application. I have to say though, I do not use any of the classic well draining mix recipes on GWeb - mine is a free flowing mix that I concocted myself using pine bark, perlite, compost and peat.
My potted citrus behave really well. Lots of glossy green and tons of flowers and little fruits.
As for my in-ground citrus, I just use the Vigoro citrus fertilizer once every 3 months and no FP.
I suggest you try various combinations of feedings for a few months and see what your plants like in your climate as the growth and response varies from place to place.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2010 at 11:15PM
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jerry_d

Thanks, Ashley, for your comments and advice. I will definitely not use any fertilizer on my container citrus that is intended for use with in-ground citrus. I am currently using the Foliage-Pro/white vinegar combo recommended by MeyerMike, and the results have been great. Lots of lush, glossy leaves on my potted calamondin and Meyer Lemon. Once I move them outside at the end of this month, the flowers will come...

Lucky you living where you can have both container and in-ground citrus!

Jerry

    Bookmark   May 3, 2010 at 8:00PM
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cebury(9)

All other things being equal, how often you need to fertilize is very dependent on the soil drainage. Ashley what media do you have your trees in?

I'm on the learning curve having a hard time keeping up with the nutritional needs of (non-citrus) fruit trees in the (Al's) gritty mix -- nitrogen especially during the initial growth stages after dormancy. Even when using FP at approx. 1/3 dosage with every watering (every 4-5 or so days). Rather than upping the dosage or watering more often, I went ahead and put down a small dose of granular, then added Dynamite slow-release. I'll be doing FP about once a month or so now. I had to get away from mixing fert with every watering now that I have 100 containers -- was taking too long.

The gritty mix has very obvious advantages (as stated) but I've heard Mike say "you need to stay on top of your fert with the gritty mix". He is certainly right.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2010 at 12:01PM
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ashleysf(9 San Jose,CA)

cebury, I use one part perlite, one part pine bark, one part peat and one part compost (I know, it is sacrilege to use organic content in potted medium!). Sometimes, I bump up the perlite content a little more than one part. I am growing outdoors in california weather and never bring my plants inndoors. I use time release fertilizer meant for containers in my pots and time release iron sulphate wherever applicable. And i only use vinegar+FP every 3rd watering and sometimes if I get busy, every 4th watering. Cannot imagine doing this every day in the summer. And I use Fish Emulsion once every 2 months (very dilute dosage). Seems to work out well for my growing conditions so far. The reason that I went for a slightly more water retaining mix is that if I leave town for a couple of days in the summer, all my plants die in Al's gritty mix because of the 90+ weather. So, I copied fruitnut and incorporated perlite and bark into organic medium. So far, the trees are happy. Good luck.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2010 at 1:02PM
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weiss613

I have 120 citrus in ground and 5 potted, 6 mango in ground, 3 lychee and 20 avocado in ground with an average age in ground of 2 years. I live in Miami. My trees are immaculately perfect. Trees range in size from 3.5 ft to 15 ft.
For 2 years I struggled with fertilizers and micronutrients as each new disappointment arrived. eg yellow leaves, leaves with yellow veins and the reverse, defoliations, burnt tips or leaves etc, etc, etc.
To make a long story short, the combination of 9-3-6 Foilage Pro without vinegar and Soar micronutrient sprays combined with Orocit agricultural oil to act as a spreader sticker and insect suffocater helped more then anything to get citrus perfection. If you are buying the FP I recommend greenhousemegastore as they sell a gallon for $40 the lowest price on the web. I called Dynagro to buy five 5 gallon containers and they wanted $250 each plus $157 postage for all 5. But a local company got it for me for $150 per 5 gallon container so you can figure what I now think about the manufacturer Dyna gro. Also, I experimented recently with vinegar to lower my ph because my watering water has a ph of 8.4 and I ended up causing some crazy burned spots in the center of some leaves so since I've had perfection without the vinegar I'm not going to use it again.
A technique I have used since the beginning is that I surround my tree trunks with a round wall about 24 to 36 inches in diameter so that when I pour my water mixed with FP it does not spread out but goes straight down. Home depot has plastic edging that can be attached to each other and then stuck in the ground in a closed circle so the water and FP goes where you want it to go. I use 3 ozs of FP in 5 gallons of water and use 2.5 gallons on the smaller trees and 5 gallons on the larger trees. If it's the dry season I'll do this 1 X/ month. Rainy season 2 X/ month. Rain washes the nutrients out. And I spray every 3 weeks. Every leaf on every tree is perfect. This is the Home Depot edging I use:
Home Gardener Borderline II 2 ft. Plastic Edging
Model # 21005
Store SKU # 268035
No other fertilization is necessary. 9 of my citrus get very little light and with this technique they are thriving too. These trees are on my 1/2 acre lot along with my house so they are pretty close together.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2011 at 12:01PM
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pgde(Tucson Zone 9)

Hi Weiss613:

A picture or two would be interesting to see how you have your trees laid out.

P.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2011 at 12:25AM
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Spongey600

i have been trying to find this stuff in San Diego! so far 0-3! if anyone can help that ould be awesome! some place carry other dyna-gro products but not the foliage pro.

thanks in advance,
Eric

    Bookmark   May 19, 2011 at 7:38PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, Eric, there must be some hydroponic shops in San Diego.
Check with those guys and see if they'll order from their catalogue.

Josh

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 1:48AM
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Spongey600

Thaks Josh! after i posted it thats where i looked and i could only find an "8oz" what sizes do they come in?

Eric

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 11:23AM
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noss(Zone 9a Lafayette, LA)

I just put Miracid on my container citrus trees, & blueberries, as well as my inground little Satsuma.

Did I kill them? Was that the wrong thing to do? Should I flush the pots tomorrow?

I was told to use it with the citrus and the blueberries.

I feel sick now.

And they were doing so well.....

Vivian

    Bookmark   May 21, 2011 at 9:01PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Eric, I've been buying 32oz. bottles for $20.
They also come in 1-gallon jugs fairly commonly.
The 32oz. is most practical for me.

Vivian, what is the recommended dose with the Miracid?

Josh

    Bookmark   May 21, 2011 at 11:59PM
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noss(Zone 9a Lafayette, LA)

Josh,

It said to mix 1 Tablespoon Miracid with 1 gallon of water, for use in watering cans. That's what I did, but didn't put a whole gallon in each pot. I spread it out between three of the trees and the pots are 16" in diameter. The inground tree got the most of the solution and I didn't put any of it on the foliage.

I've never raised citrus trees before and got them in March. They sat for a few weeks and the Meyer Lemon has just started putting out new blossoms and some new growth, the inground Satsuma has four tiny oranges on it and the Key Lime has started putting out blossoms and there are tiny limes on it, but I'm sure most of them will drop because there are so many. I won't let many stay on, if any because of the rough start the little tree had. The potted Satsuma is still lush like it was when I brought it home. The trees all have the nursery slow release fertilizer they came with and when I potted them up, I left it in the soil with the trees. Same for the inground tree.

I was told that it wouldn't hurt to put the Miracid on them for the nitrogen boost, so I did. I have a tendency to overtend things and I've been trying not to do that and am afraid I did with the Miracid.

Vivian

    Bookmark   May 22, 2011 at 2:18AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey! I can't imagine that the Miracid would harm your trees.
Unless we hear different, I'll go ahead and assume it's going to be just fine :-)

Josh

    Bookmark   May 22, 2011 at 12:53PM
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