Blog with nice conifer photos and sarcasm?

whaas_5a(5A SE WI)January 13, 2012

I was cruising through this blog enjoying a few photos and came across an interesting comment about naming cultivars.

Scroll about half way down to the mugos. Is he being serious or sarcastic?

huh?

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

when you own Buchholz Nursery .. you can say whatever you want.. lol ...

but i have often wondered.. how many are named by the finder.. rather than being honored by the scion cutter ...

e.g. ... i have one named 'bill bargers yard' .... i asked gary gee what that was all about.. he said.. wait for it... it came from.. are you ready.. bill bargers yard .. lol ... allegedly a thunber that can handle windswept z5a ....

should we criticism bill barger.. for the name.. lol

BTW.. talon has a nice camera.. dont you think.. and.. he knows how to use it ... or he has a photographer on staff ...

now.. lets not start with cesarini ... heck he even named on for his mom.. 'mrs. c.' ....

ken

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 4:23PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

e.g. ... i have one named 'bill bargers yard' .... i asked gary gee what that was all about.. he said.. wait for it... it came from.. are you ready.. bill bargers yard .. lol ...

Funniest thing I heard all day!

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 4:26PM
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jinxz5(Z 5a)

Ken, We also have a 'bill bargers yard' and I must say it is the toughest P.t. we have. Never a brown needle. Who the heck is this Barger guy. Only kidding...known Bill for years. Jay

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 5:10PM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

I think it is a very noble gesture to name a plant after someone. I also think if someone is willing to have his/her name on a plant, it must be a very good plant for someone to have it represented with their own name.

I've never met Chubb, but I've heard a lot of stories about him. I know there is a plant named after him and just because of all the wonderful stories I've heard about him, I am going to eventually get that plant.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 8:34PM
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Cher(6 SW OH)

I feel it's totally uncalled for to make public statements about any person. Think what you want and generalizing is one thing but comments about a specific person is awful and makes me say I wouldn't want to deal with them.
Cher

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 8:59PM
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI

Cher has a valid point. Does Talon feel the same about Bush, Girard, Kohout, etal?

tj

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 10:17PM
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noki

I'm not sure I understand all these comments...

Is this Carsten a friend? Or is he just saying that it is tacky to name a cultivar after yourself? I think it is considered kinda tacky to name a species after yourself

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 11:33PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I'm still not sure if its sarcasm or not.

I don't think anyone is naming a species after themselves but a cultivar of the species.

The comments got a little strange and unprofessional when he stated "who cares about Carsten". Its quite disrespectful to state this publicly on your business's website. Thats why I'm wondering if it was sarcasm or if Carsten is actually a friend and its a joke. He didn't even get the cutlivar name correct to begin with.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2012 at 11:48PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Since we really don't know the whole story why waste time speculating.

Like him or not he is the one who sets the stage for his own professionalism in the public eye. Let him deal with it.

I am only interested in all the rare offerings he has to sell.

As far as naming a cultivar after yourself or a family member I don't have a problem with that. 'Miss Grace', 'Mrs Cesarini', 'Graceful Grace'. 'Rezek', 'J. James' named after Jerry Morris grandson, Pinus ponderosa 'Mary Ann Heacock' interesting story behind that. There is a story behind each name and to me that adds value to the plant.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Pinus ponderosa 'Mary Ann Heacock'.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2012 at 5:58AM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

There is a story behind each name and to me that adds value to the plant.

Dave, you said that so eloquently and I agree wholeheartedly.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2012 at 8:34AM
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jinxz5(Z 5a)

Exactly Dave. We probably all have plants in our gardens that are important to us mostly because they remind us of a person or time that we treasure. Jay

    Bookmark   January 14, 2012 at 9:41AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Dave, you're right, at the end of the day I don't think any of us care about his particular stance with cultivar names. I was more or less curious to see what people think about using names in the cultivar name.

I also like when others use their name but it should also be descriptive of an inherent feature or in BBY case, be whimsical!

    Bookmark   January 14, 2012 at 10:42AM
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olypen

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of taking a class presented by Dr. Barton Warnock. Dr. Warnock was responsible for the discovery of dozens of plants in the Trans-Pecos region of Texas. He was not a man with a small ego, but he never named a cultivar after himself. The 12 or so plants that bear his name were named in his honor by other botanists. I suppose that this makes me old fashioned, but I feel that putting your own name on a cultivar ranks pretty high on the hubris scale.
Bill

    Bookmark   January 14, 2012 at 3:17PM
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billb(Zn5 OH)

Hi Guys (and Gals)!

I was checking out the forums tonight and found this one. The plant in question is Pinus thunbergii 'Oculus Draconis'. I got it indirectly from Girard Nursery via Mark Demrovsky as a gift when I was first getting started about 16 years ago. It was a great plant for me. Had it for years and never saw any burn on it. Its downfall was probably my fault. It had two trunks and split during an ice storm. I sent as much wood as I could to Gary who grafted it.

I am not one to put my name on things. Feels weird.

Take care,
Bill

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 10:09PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Thanks for this great info Bill!
I saw this plant at Gary's and told him that it looked much like 'Oculis-draconis'.
If you didn't tell us this story, this plant would live it's own life...

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 2:34AM
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billb(Zn5 OH)

There are already too many selections out there with multiple names. We don't want to make it any worse than it already is.

Great selection though.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 9:23PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

can i restate the facts as i understand them .. besides talking to gary about it when the foreign guys were here ...

lets pretend gee had a couple dozen P t OD in production.. and all the graft are tagged ... p t OD ....

when bill gives him an allegedly hardier version ... he has to label them something other than OD ... or they will all be lost and confused in the production hut ... eh???

so what he was doing was keeping track of that 'selected form'????

so wouldnt the proper name.. be somthing like:

P. t. OD forma 'Bill Barger's Yard"

a preserved selection of a known variant???? or a variant of a known cultivar???? i dont know the proper term here ...

i surely dont know the nomenclature rules all that well ... but i do know you can NOT rename an OD to BBY ... or at least.. you are not supposed to ...

so joy ... how would we properly connote its selection w/o renaming OD???

bummer on yours bill .. it was a beauty ... do you have any old pix ... its hard to run across pix of mature specimens of OD thuns ...

ken

    Bookmark   February 1, 2012 at 10:43AM
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tunilla

If the only (but very valuable) difference is it's hardiness,then that should be added after the cultivar name as 'Hardy form' - Bill Barger' That way ,valuable cultural information is passed on without adding another meaningless name to the very long list of cultivarnames wich don't give the slightest clue about the plant to wich they've been assigned. T.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2012 at 3:51PM
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billb(Zn5 OH)

Gary is pretty good about keeping these things separate. He gets a lot of stuff from me that is held and not for sale. Sometimes he might let them out to "friends" but that is rare. It is understood the condition that they get them and hopefully they honor those conditions.

If you go to his place and he has a specimen with a price of $999 (or more) for a 1 gallon plant, that would be a plant that he is trying to segregate. Of course anyone willing to pay $999 would certainly be able to and I will trust that Gary send me my share of that fool's money. ;-)

Bill

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 10:42AM
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jinxz5(Z 5a)

Bill, I thought $999 was a bargin for a plant named after you. At least that's what you told me! Jay

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 2:19PM
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billb(Zn5 OH)

Yo fool!! I wondered who bought that plant?

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 3:15PM
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