Oak/Beech Grafting

gardener365(5b Illinois USA)January 26, 2012

My latest video.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: youtube: Grafting Oaks/Beech

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sluice

Nice!

What types of oaks and beech are you grafting this season?

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 12:34AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Couldn't get any beech this season.

I'm grafting oaks like a madman!
From a private collection!
I've only seen one cultivar so far for sale in the U.S.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Quercus at Sooner Plant Farm

1 Like    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 7:04AM
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abciximab(7b/8)

Hey Dax. Great video! Is this the same procedure for Taxodium and Ginkgo grafting? How do you rehydrate the scions 1/2hr - 1.5hr before grafting?

Patrick

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 8:06AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Taxoidum are grafted just like other conifers: i.e. bud strip and into a tenting chamber. Ginkgo are grafted same as oaks however they are not submerged in wax. Keep Ginkgo on heat mats either inside a tenting chamber (winter) or on racks with bottom heat. Ginkgo are very easy.

Re-hydrate: I filled my kitchen sink, rubber-banded all the sticks in groups with labels and tossed them in and set a timer. You snip off the bottom of the scions prior so they are more capable of absorbing water.

Another method for really dried wood is to use a five gallon bucket and fill it half full and add one cap full of 'Superthrive' and soak them the same way.

Pat them dry, snip off the end again, and graft them.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 8:30AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Quercus-Oak Grafts Completed and Waxed on Bottom Heat

Waxed Quercus-Oak Scions Close-up:

Dax

1 Like    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 11:40AM
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ladylotus(Z3/4 ND)

Hey Dax,

Great video on grafting Oaks. Once you've completed the grafting is it necessary to place them under tenting and additional humidity also?

You do some very interesting grafting. You are very lucky!

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 7:56PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Nope you can just put them on a table once they are waxed. I'll repeat you need bottom heat, at least until the scions fully leaf, then remove the understock and you can take them off the heat mats.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 8:10PM
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blue_yew(Z9 Devon UK)

Good luck with your grafting Dax

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 4:16AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Thanks my man.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 7:44AM
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Cher(6 SW OH)

Great video Dax. Question - what is the reason for dipping them in wax?
Cher

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 8:20AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

So the wood & buds/union don't dry out.

Dax

1 Like    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 9:16AM
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alley_cat_gw

Hey Dax, That is really cool that you take the time and effort to make that movie. Real enjoyable. Ive grafted a number of ap maples over the years, but nothing as organized as you.Fun to watch...Thanks!

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 9:20AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I'll keep the trend alive and record summer grafting of maples and ginkgo, as well.

Appreciate the words.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 9:39AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Should've mentioned this is how you graft Japanese maples in the winter as well.

Dax

1 Like    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 10:56AM
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coniflora

Dax,

You should consider building a hot callus setup. It would save you from all the waxing and graft seal business. Plus, you can regraft what dosent callus up after a few weeks before leaf out.

When I graft beech and oak I try to hang the wood as low as possible, just above soil level. Often you see these plants with an unsightly bulge at the graft union, especially beech. The lower you graft the less likely you are to see this. Actually, I try to do this with everything I graft, except for standards.

Nice video.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 1:43AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Thank you, thank you. I realize my grafts aren't perfect & appreciate the constructive criticism.

I'm sure I'll be fine the way I'm going with waxing. I know someone who gets the same results waxing as on a pipe, so, I'll stick around and continue to do them like this. Even bagging them works great for him. It's a lot about how well you take care of the bagged grafts - opening the bags daily, or with the waxed grafts, how well (you) do along the process.

Well I'm talking to a guy who's been around a lot longer than myself. I don't need to keep going.

Thanks for the kind thoughts and inspiration & everything you've done for me.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 8:26AM
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Sarah80

I posted a thread about this but will bump this thread for information.

Might try some grafting, both top working as well as grafting onto rootstocks this winter and spring. Mostly apples and maples.

I've seen where wax is used, as is done here. They all say "don't let the wax get too hot, or you might damage the cambium or buds".

What none of them say is now hot that is. 110 degrees F? 130 degrees F? 160?

The video is gone that the OP posted.

And what do you do for bottom heat? Just a standard heat mat? Do you use a Thermostat?

    Bookmark   December 20, 2014 at 6:57PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hi Sarah,

I just used a heat mat w/o a thermostat.

I dip at 160F for greenhouse thickness. Dip them fast if the temps cannot be controlled/kept at 160F. Eventually depending upon just how fast you are the wax will cool and it will become thick and will not adhere completely to the wood. That's the method I do. I cut up 1/2 block of paraffin wax, drop it into an empty milk jug that I cut the top off of but was sure to keep the handle - pour *almost* boiling water into the jug with the block of wax. It takes 45 minutes to 55 minutes for the temp to drop to 160F. Others... they use crock pots but I don't do this method.

If you're using wax for outdoor application... you should mix beeswax and paraffin at a rate of 50/50. You'll need the extra thickness the beeswax provides. Temperature... I don't know but I'd begin at 160 and *test* every 10 degrees for a thickness you'd like.

Here's a video of a friend talking beeswax and outdoor pecan grafting. I can't recall if he mentioned temperature or not.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting with Machined Tool

    Bookmark   December 21, 2014 at 11:14AM
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Sarah80

Thanks!

160 huh? That's hotter than I'd have expected...I mean, even a steak is too done for my taste at that temperature...I'd assume it would cook plants. Obviously you know what works, I'm just surprised.

So you let the molten wax float on the water and just plunge through it?

    Bookmark   December 21, 2014 at 11:58AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I stir it up really well and start dipping. When it cools the wax returns to the top of the water and you can reuse it again.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 21, 2014 at 3:22PM
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Sarah80

So you dip in a wax/water slurry?

Oaks, eh? Is there a type of graft that works best for oaks? I never knew oaks were graft-able. Now I am intrigued!

    Bookmark   December 22, 2014 at 11:02PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Whatever you're comfortable with Sarah. Side/veneer works just fine but if you are good at whip and tongue, I'd use that. Just remember that oak wood is like iron so be very careful with what you're doing. A blade that's razor sharp is the only way to graft them. Veneer I'd recommend if you aren't extremely experienced. One slip with that knife messing around with whip & tongue or wedge grafting and you'll be in the middle of the bone of your finger and you may have a finger hanging off your hand. Take your time, that's the first piece of advice I always tell people.

White oaks (white family) graft together and reds with reds. The most common rootstocks for whites are Quercus robur or robur var. fastigiata for the narrow selections or Quercus alba; for reds people use either rubra or palustris. There is some incompatibility with palustris but I don't remember what is incompatible with it. Of course species to species is always best in a perfect world. There are other sections such as the cerris section... those should be grafted together...while they can go on white's, cerris to cerris is much better and you'll get more takers. (cerris, libani, suber, and so on.) Check which sections each falls into and choose rootstocks compatible, within...

Yes the wax consistency would-actually be uniform whether I stirred or not. I like stirring though for peace of mind I guess & to get that damn chunk of wax melted faster.

Dax
P.s. you can graft just about anything but something that is rootable - on its' own roots is always best! Dirr & Heuser 'The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation' is a must.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2014 at 1:09PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

bicolor for whites is another excellent rootstock. It just hit me. That's what I've in my greenhouse right now.

Dax

    Bookmark   December 23, 2014 at 1:16PM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

Does Quercus macrocarpa make a good rootstock? I've got a few seedlings of them and might try grafting what I think is a Saul's oak (white/chestnut hybrid) on to them. Great looking tree in my neighbors yard (Delaware county, Ohio) Looks like a white oak but the lobes on the leaves are shallower. Has some of the cleanest foliage I've ever seen on an oak, every summer. Good fall color too.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 6:53AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Yes, that's a good match. All the whites are compatible & it's basically the same for the reds. Reds have a compatibility issue with Q.palustris but I don't recall if it's as a rootstock or as the scions. It could be anything because I really don't know at this moment.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 7:12AM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

Thanks gardener365.

Questions-

For oaks, do you wait for the rootstock buds to swell a bit before grafting? Mine are potted in Smart Pots in the shed, still dormant, but I can bring them into my sunroom (which I'm using until I get a bona fide GH) and add bottom heat to get them breaking dormancy (with this years' weather, I doubt it would happen outside before May).

Once you graft, do you rub off any attempted sprouts coming from the rootstock until the scion breaks bud, or does it matter?

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 1:02PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

You have several options. You collect your scionwood before the tree(s) are actively growing and refrigerate it (that's what I'd do). Or, you can spend unnecessary money on electricity warming them up inside. You just graft when the rootstocks wake up on their own and then once their grafted keep them in your sunroom until the new growth has shot a few inches and then acclimate them outdoors (harden them off) over the course of a week. And let them finish growing outside.

Option 2 is graft earlier and either heat them up on a heat mat or bring them into your sunroom now and allow them to wake up a bit sooner than prior to spring. You're going to use a heat mat though to push the growth on your grafted scions.

And, yes as new-growth breaks below or above the scion - anywhere on the rootstock, rub it off. Only allow the scion to grow.

If the scion is large enough to sustain the root-system in your opinion... after the scion has grown and the new-growth has hardened off, clip off the rootstock-completely above the scion and continue to rub off buds that form below the scion or from beneath the soil-media.

My latest videos:

Part 1: Waxing Scions

Part 2: Using a Fieldcraft Topgrafter

1 Like    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 1:36PM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

That grafting tool is awesome!

The wife would probably neuter me if I dropped $500 on one, though.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 4:44PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

She'll only be mad for a while.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 7:55PM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

Haha...yeah...

    Bookmark   March 8, 2015 at 8:23AM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

OK, so my neighbor was cool with me clipping some scions this afternoon. Actually got some nice robust ones about 20" long, all one year wood. A branch snapped off last winter that sprouted some waterspout type growth he wanted to cut off at the next branch anyway.

I have them in a ziploc with a moist paper towel in the fridge. Had to cut them in half or thirds.

Question-I've grafted apples before with good success. Using whip grafts or cleft grafts, I've gotten even three inch long scions to take as long as they had at least one good bud.

For oak, how short is the shortest scion I am likely to get away with...assuming I wax them like you do? I want to have a reasonable rate of success, but at the same time I want to have as many scions as possible, since I have a lot of bur oak seedlings, and the more I can graft, the more chance of success. I've already cut them to about 7-12" to fit in the ziplocs, but they have plenty of healthy buds, so I think at least the longer ones could be cut in half again.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2015 at 3:23PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

You don't want them to be any longer than the seedling-rootstock. If it's a real short scion leave enough of the rootstock on above your grafting area as to continue to feed the root-system. The main goal is to remove the rootstock, completely. If your 2-3 bud scion puts on enough new growth that you feel will take the place of the roostock, then after that new growth hardens off, completely remove any rootstock above your graft union. Also if you put a 2 or 3 bud scion about 3-4" long on a seedling that is 16" long... prior to grafting onto that seedling cut it in half. You want at least a sufficient amount of energy to go to your scion.

If you have a robust scion that will go on a robust seedling... cut the seedling down to 4-5" and graft onto that stub.

One more example: say for example your seedling is 12" and your scion is 5". In those circumstances where the scion isn't really strong/hasn't developed much caliper/doesn't have much of a diameter so to speak of... graft that 5" stick a few 3" i.e. up from the soil media level and leave the understock about an inch above your scion. This compensates a smaller scion on a weaker root-system on a young seedling.

You may also leave the rootstock on for an additional year or years if necessary. There's no rush... but most of your grafts you'll remove the rootstock completely during the middle of the summer.

Hope that gives you some basis of understanding.

Dax

    Bookmark   March 9, 2015 at 5:15AM
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taxo_man

Great video! Looking forward to other future videos. Those oak brooms look awesome. Any pics of the mother plant?

Cheers man!

    Bookmark   March 10, 2015 at 6:43PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Yo, thanks Jeff.

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega'

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega'

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega' - and the guy that discovered it and holding a piece of it. Minnesota, USA.

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega' - scions cut of which several were shipped to me.

Dax

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 5:39AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

This is an old thread...

Hey Dax...what seedling are you holding and using as rootstock in these latest videos? Bicolor? Where did you order them?

That "Omega" oak broom, almost looks like the grafted specimens will basically become a miniature version of a mature looking Bur Oak, is that more or less correct?

Are the leaves full sized or smallish?

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 9:36AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I have no idea how large the leaves are. I heard about the broom last fall and never saw a photo until a month ago appx.

I bought the seedlings from U of Idaho Nursery. They're bur oak.

I think it'll be a shrub form. It looks like it grows 2-3" a year and you can double that in a decade. It may someday throw up a leader or it may not.

Dax

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 1:38PM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

Ok, I'm ready to try this.

One more question:

On oak scions, do you remove the terminal bud or leave it?

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 5:37PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I would remove it.

Dax

    Bookmark   March 11, 2015 at 7:18PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

2-weeks to the day: 2 grafts have bud scales splitting. Photos Mar. 16.
Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega' (graft 1 of 15)

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega' (graft 1 of 15 - same bud cluster as above)

Quercus macrocarpa 'Omega' (graft 2)

Dax

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 5:44AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Dax-

Is 2 weeks typical for oak? If not, what do you think made them take so fast?

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 6:44AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

It's typical when grafted at spring time. If I'd grafted these in January, they would have woken up at the same time as those grafted during the beginning of spring. Daylight length has just as much to do with bud break as does soil being warmed up from the sun or in my case the soil media being warmed up artificially using a heat mat.

2-4 weeks is the time frame. You'll usually see movement on a first graft at two weeks. The others may take another week or 10 days to crack.

Dax

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 7:20AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Is there a chill hour issue as well (as you'd see in fruit trees) with oaks? Perhaps in my zone it's more of an issue, but I'd wonder if there are even enough chill hours by January to break dormancy for more northern oak species.

BTW I'm growing out a couple dozen Q macrocarpa and bicolor seedlings this year, so next spring if you're willing to do some grafting for me...we can touch base. Also have some coccinea and rubra growing.

I've also got some roots just barely popping on the xsternbergii acorns that are in the fridge stratifying. Guess I better plant those soon. Those of course will NOT be grafted onto!

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 7:32AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

There's a necessary dormancy requirement for plants that aren't tropical. When I see that three weeks of cold temps expire during late fall/early winter, I'm certain those requirements have been met and I bring my seedlings inside my greenhouse to wait until I'm ready to graft whether deciduous or coniferous.

Chill hours are a term I know little about . . .

Great to hear about your sternbergii's. Mine have been in pots in my greenhouse all winter and so far none have come up.

I'll get you some stuff grafted, sure...

Dax

    Bookmark   March 17, 2015 at 8:53AM
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