Thought gardeners were nice people

little_ebe(15/CA)July 26, 2014

I was beyond shocked when I read the comments from people on a gardening site gleefuly sharing different ways of murdering animals in their gardens. Does anyone ever consider what is happening to the wildlife in this world? They are losing habitat as we continue to pave over paradise, they are shot by guns and cross bows, babies are left to starve to death and how do anyone of you know with any certainty that any of these methods is really the pleasure you see to think it is. My garden is full of wildlife and there always seems to be enough go to around...and if there isn't, I can always go to the market. Right. I have been on this web for years and cannot believe this kind of crap is being posted. Always thought gardeners were kind people. Got that wrong.

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scottsmith(9)

The great thing about forums is being able to post our opinions about all things gardening:
1 potting mix
2 watering
3 containers
4 disease and disease controll
5 fertilizer
6 pests and pests control.
And you the reader has 100% control over what you read. God Bless America and our many freedoms.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 8:37AM
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JCitrus

to the OP, how does your post relate to citrus growing??
troll much lately? not sure what your point is? it sounds like you are generalizing way to much. Are you a strickt vegan? if not start by that before ranting nonesense.

In my garden, its eat or be eaten. Frogs and lizards do most the work for me;) I actually belive the opposite of what you suggest, and feel a kinship and respect for anyone that truly enjoys playing in the dirt

Carry on

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 9:59AM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

little_ebe

Perhaps you can help me out. I have 26 fruit trees, 9 blueberry bushes 3 kiwi vines, 3 grape vines 2 gooseberry bushes, and 2 cherry tree root stocks from suckers to be grafted. I get about 2 -3 bushels of fruit from a crop load of 15 Bushels. Squirrels get the rest with 90% of it as unripe fruit with bite marks. I pick only the easy to pick fruit to share the rest with wild life. That is my gardening plan.

I Google how to kill, rid, eliminate, ETC, ETC, ETC, AND ETC squirrels and all I get are sites like I love my pet squirrels and how to attract more squirrels.

GOOGLE WHAT CAN I NOT FEED MY PET SQUIRREL AND YOU WILL GET SITE AFTER SITE OF THIS IS POISONOUS, THIS MAKES THEM VERY SICK THIS MEDICINE KILLS.

Steve

Thanks Google

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 1:12PM
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johnmerr(11)

Some unfounded/false logic at work here. What bible says a gardener has to be a nice person? I am in charge of four large tropical gardens, not to mention my lemon farms; and I am an internationally certified curmudgeon, who will use whatever means are at my disposal to defend my plants against any pest that tries to damage them.
little_ebe, please take your meaningless jabber somewhere else; most here on this forum are trying to learn about how to protect their citrus and make them produce food for humans.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 8:41PM
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dtunesgw

Not sure the relevance of your post in the citrus forum, beyond trolling of course. That being said I don't believe it's my responsibility to feed the local wild animal population. For the record, I've never intentionally killed a non-insect pest, but I'm not morally opposed to it. The unfortunate truth to nature is that all animals feed on some other life form and death is universal for all creatures.

I enjoy seeing the local red tailed hawks and peregrine falcons because I know they eat the very things that eat my plants. Are birds of prey misguided or evil to you? Are their "babies" more or less valuable than the rabbits on my property? What about a rodent or bird eating insects, where exactly is the line that killing another creature is wrong? I feel strongly that I am a part of nature, and as a result killing a pest is no different morally than any other animal killing in the environment.

That being said, I do agree that people who gleefully kill are unhinged and off putting. I think the vast majority of gardeners respect nature and avoid killing if there are other valid alternatives.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 9:44PM
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scottsmith(9)

I like to eat my garden goodies and don't mind eating squirrel or rabbit either.

Doves are good too, but alas, what to do with that mockingbird

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 10:57PM
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scottsmith(9)

double post

This post was edited by scottsmith on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 14:58

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 10:58PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Scott, I think you are stuck enjoying the mocking birds song, even at 3 am.

I think if the OP will give us their shipping address, we will be happy to send them boxes of aphids, white flies, snails, slugs, pincher bugs, mice, rats and all the gophers we can catch.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 11:05PM
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lucky123

Gophers eat every plant I have ever planted including small pines and 4 ft volunteer mulberry.
I have to plant all small trees in wire baskets and the gophers sometimes manage to get through the wire
Gophers ate the privet.
I have a dog who digs for gophers and my yard looks like the WWI trenches.
All I have are trees..and gophers. Mostly gophers.
And dogs and cats which means I can't trap or poison.
So when talking about the "rights of wild life" What about the rights of the roses, the sweet peas, the small pines, the mulberry, the privets who disappeared down the gopher hole?
I hate gophers.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 11:13PM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

I grew a patch of corn and at tassel I set out the Haveaheart trap ( cause I care about suffering) I caught 21 raccoon 21 opossums, 1 ground hog, 2 squirrels, one rabbit, and one kitty cat, I am a use everything Mennonite and don't waste anything. After eating 5 raccoon I discovered that a raccoon planted with an egg plant will produce 5 times as much fruit. The possums I released after painting their coat with animal marking ink and swinging them around an making loud noise with role up newspaper. Opossums are very smart and not aggressive. They never came back in my yard, but I do see their marked behinds scurry by. The squirrels were absolutely delicious. The rabbit had all kinds of worms in it dermis layer. The ground hog got a nice new home with the kid down the street. It die about 10 years later.

This post was edited by poncirusguy on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 17:40

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 11:28PM
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Acadiafun

Take heart not all of us gardeners kill the wildlife that eat our plants or jump our garden defenses. This year the wildlife ate my hostas, tomatoes, sweet peas and bush beans while last year they left them alone. Also ate my gorgeous wave Petunias. But I will survive the loss as will they.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2014 at 11:36PM
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mr_z1(10a/9b)

Deleted.

This post was edited by Mr.Z on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 19:40

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 12:26AM
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BarbJP CA 15-16/9B

Hey guys! Don't feed the trolls. Ya'all are serving up their favorite food.

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. By the way, I hate fricken gophers too!

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 2:42AM
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little_ebe(15/CA)

I am not a troll. I came to this site for a reason and was so blown away by the cruelty and now by the nasty responses, that I reacted to that first. Only 2 people even responded with a modicum of courtesy. Talk about rants...people posting about how they kill their animals,(they enjoy it), the man who thinks I should be more concerned abou the problem in Gaza.(and what you done for that horror or all the others in this world.?) I happen to believe no sentient thing should suffer and that is all I said. Not ranting, not lunancy. And johnmerr is right. Not all gardeners are nice. At all. "The ugliest thing I have ever seen is a human without compassion." h. milne p.

One last thing when you poison rodents your are killing the hawks eagles and larger birds of prey, but from what I have seen that won't bother you or even if you shot the critters
with lead bullets or just drown or gas or stomp on chimpmunks, voles, squirrels, you are taking food away from the same.. But, from what I have seen on this forum, I doubt there will be any nice discussion. I called you no names, I didn't insult you. Why are all so defensive? I hope you get much joy from your gardens. I do...all without harming one thing. Something to consider.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 4:36AM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

hi
I think the main problem is "concept" for example there is no such thing as a "garden' in nature . As such is not an attempt to fit into the grand scheme but to produce goods for our own consumption.?? i personally have always found my garden a constant war with nature?? While i think it is beautiful i can see ma nature does not lol
In many languages the word "garden " is interchangeable with "paradise " sorry don't grasp that lol
"Everything is beautiful in it's own way" I lean toward "Nothing is beautiful unless I say so!!" gary

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:29AM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

On killing pests. I do not use poisons for the reason that I don' want to hurt predictor animals or insects. I am organic, thus scatter or kill pests mechanically. But when squirrel destroys 12 bushels of fruit one does slip in to a lower mentality and the picture above does fit. I am trying to encourage predators but don't Know how.

Steve

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 9:36AM
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serge94501

I am sorry, but coming to a Citrus forum and talking about cruel gardeners is in fact textbook trolling.

I am sure there are places to post your opinion and have discussion that are far more appropriate.

Please come back and talk about Citrus if you like.

That's what we do here.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 9:54AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

In general I think that gardeners like plants more than they like the animals that eat their plants. Personally I like animals but perfer the meat eaters over the plant eaters. This is the same when it come to insects, I encourage the meat eaters and discourage the plant eaters. I'll add that I don't mind sharing with the plant eaters, it's just that they do not care to share most of the time.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 10:11AM
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little_ebe(15/CA)

Read my last post again. I came here for help with my Meyers tree but somehow landed on a page that had little about citrus but was mainly focused on the best way to kill squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, including poison, gas, drowning... That is what I was responding to, as I have already stated. I didn't start the thread. Not trolling. Perhaps there should be(and maybe there is) a forum where people can just discuss different ways to kill things and then the rest of us could avoid reading about it. Thanks.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:19PM
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subtropix

This has gotta be one of the strangest threads I've ever seen on any forum.

I actually enjoy my deer and garden around them. It requires a bit of research but it can be done easily enough, especially because my neighbors plant enough stuff that they seem to love to eat. Then there are the domestic cats AND the feral ones who keep the rodent population to a minimum. Squirrels, not so much of a problem. I had a groundhog once building its nest under my garage, but I encouraged it move somehow by dumping the cats' litter box outside its entrance. It got the message. I feed the birds, so that attracts the squirrels, but the cats are on guard and chase down the squirrels--the cats, and the large birds of prey that have returned big time even in the innermost suburbs (including; eagles, hawks, owls, etc). The bushes that the deer really like to eat, I still grow, but need to consider...location, location, location. An herbivore is not gonna go into an area that feels enclosed. Seems to be working. If I couldn't garden w.o.without poisons or shotguns, I think I'd consider another hobby.

This post was edited by njoasis on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 17:56

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:31PM
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dbarron(z7_Arkansas)

Interesting though :)

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:38PM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

I went to your last post about Meyer lemons dry and I believe it was answered. I saw nothing on cruelty to animal there. Perhaps you are referring to another thread of yours, All the post on this thread condemn us as killer including the name. Please link us to where you want us and I am going to remove the dead squirrel picture.

Steve

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:39PM
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little_ebe(15/CA)

Thank you, Steve. I don't know what happened, but I did not just land in a thread of folks talking about citrus and for no reason address a topic that was not there. You did see the squirrel photo, though. Could you send me my original post and what was said before it because all I get is what was posted AFTER I posted. Thanks again.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 5:55PM
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mr_z1(10a/9b)

Sorry about my post. I guess it was a rant on my part :(

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 7:39PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Little Ebe, Did you happen to confuse the photo ads placed by garden web on the right hand side bar as to being citrus forum topics? Or the box with "Most Recent Posts" list? Those are a running list of most recently posted comments on ALL of garden web, home web and pet web.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 8:33PM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

little_ebe This is your first entry but it sounds like kippy hit on this accident

I was beyond shocked when I read the comments from people on a gardening site gleefuly sharing different ways of murdering animals in their gardens. Does anyone ever consider what is happening to the wildlife in this world? They are losing habitat as we continue to pave over paradise, they are shot by guns and cross bows, babies are left to starve to death and how do anyone of you know with any certainty that any of these methods is really the pleasure you see to think it is. My garden is full of wildlife and there always seems to be enough go to around...and if there isn't, I can always go to the market. Right. I have been on this web for years and cannot believe this kind of crap is being posted. Always thought gardeners were kind people. Got that wrong.

Lets all just drop this one and move on

    Bookmark   July 27, 2014 at 9:56PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

There is, indeed, a Hot Topics Forum here at GardenWeb where Ideologues like Little_Ebe can argue and troll to their heart's content. Enjoy!

Josh

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 10:46AM
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scottsmith(9)

gotta go

fresh killed, squirrel and dumplings needs to be stirred or it will burn.............tata

saving MY tomatoes

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 12:17PM
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lucille(Houston)

" I happen to believe no sentient thing should suffer"

That doesn't seem to be well thought out. We suffer when we get immunizations. Go to the dentist. Go through childbirth. Pay taxes. Some of us suffer bad relationships.

And what about the non sentient things? OK for them to suffer?

And what about a quick painless kill? OK?

And I have to say as a mother that if any critter or person was about to kill one of my children, I would not worry for a second about whether the perp would feel pain when it was killed to save them.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 12:33PM
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jkom51(Z9 CA/Sunset 17)

Yes, quite an odd thread. Sometimes I wonder if part of this is the surge of anthropomorphizing animals into cute wholesome images, such as "Babe the pig" and "Sid the sloth".

What exactly is the OP defining as "nice"? It's not okay for a human to kill a rat or a gopher, but it's okay for any four-legged predator to not only kill it for us, but start eating it while the prey is still alive? Trust me, a human can kill one rat, but put 100 hungry rats in a locked room and drop a human in there, and not even a Navy SEAL will last very long.

In point of fact, the one thing that would eliminate vermin such as rats, gophers, feral cats/dogs, etc. as an excess problem, would be the disappearance of humans. As cogently stated in the excellent and thought-provoking TV series "Life After People", many "pests" exist as a problem simply because humans built cities and towns. Those nice, comfortable, climate-controlled, foodcrumb-heavy properties, both interior and exterior (especially with our helpful need for bringing water into areas that lack it), are ideal for protecting them against traditional predators.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 4:09PM
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Steve, Micro (6B ground, 5B roof)

I over herd 6 dear discussing the over breeding problem and one of them suggest culling the excess humans. I am worried.

Steve

PS I wonder if this post will top out at 150 entries

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 9:42PM
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scottsmith(9)

I was able to save my squirrel from burning.

mmmmm..........good

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 3:45AM
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subtropix

Thread weird...and getting weirder! Beam me out Scottie!

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 3:22PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

little ebe, start a new message thread about your Meyer lemon. Ask the questions you need to ask. Let's see if we can help you out.

And, as far as killing pests of any kind, mammals, insects, etc. It depends on how you feel about feeding the pests. I have over 100 citrus trees and about the same number of stone/pome fruits, as well as pomegranates, berries, passion fruit, etc. I spend a LOT of time, money, water (my water bill is abut $800 every other month here in S. California, I'd drop a well but it costs around $20,000 here to do that), as well as a lot of time and effort on my part, in my very spare time (work a very full time job). I am not inclined to "share" my crops with pests. I choose to eradicate the pests in the most humane way possible. I use non-kill through bait so I do not affect predators, of which I have a plethora, but not enough to keep the rodent population down. Squirrels, mice, and rats carry diseases that can be transmitted to humans, that are known in this area. Same with skunks and raccoons. My choice to keep what I grow, and to keep my health. If you cannot stand the comments from other posters about how they manage pest control, you have a couple of choices - either find another forum to have your questions answered (and I suspect you'll see much of the same posters or types of posts regarding pest control), or, find another source for support, such as your local garden center, local master gardeners, or local ag agents.

We will certainly do our best to answer your questions about your Meyer lemons, but if the question has to do with pest control, especially mammals, you may receive an answer that you do not like. You can choose to ignore the answer, or find another source of assistance.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 11:27AM
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