Pictures of rootstock leaf?

queensinfoJuly 9, 2014

I have a Meyer lemon purchased from 4 winds. I thought it died over the winter but kept watering and shuffling in and out through the spring. It is outside now and has sprouted and had a huge flush of growth. I purchased a new plant from the place in South Carolina to replace it when I thought it was gone. The new growth is mostly all coming from right at the graft (I have been scraping off everything that was obviously below the graft. For 3 or 4 branches, it looks like they grew directly from the graft. Does anyone have a picture of the leaves of the rootstock that 4 winds would use. The leaves generally look similar to the other Meyer and to each other except that the leaves are much bigger so the lower " lobes" are exaggerated. Also at least a branch or two has long thorns but I can't tell if it is just a water sprout or rootstock. I don't want to waste the growth in rootstock. I have been fertilizing the hell out if it and it is growing like crazy.
Thanks

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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Can you post a photo of what you're seeing? That will help us to help you identify what might be growing. Four Winds uses several different rootstocks, but mainly Cuban Shaddock, which is also most likely the same as Yuma Ponderosa lemon pummelo hybrid. You can look at photos of this at the UC Riverside Citrus Variety Collection web site to see if this helps you to see if it might be Cuban Shaddock. And, check out the photos of the Improved Meyer lemon as well. I would ask Four Winds what they graft their Meyer lemon to, so you can decide if what you're seeing is rootstock, or the cultivar.

You can also check out the Citrus ID Tools site as well. They have lots of close up photos of leaves of many different cultivars. Here is Yuma Ponderosa:

http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/factsheet.php?name=Yuma+Ponderosa

And Improved Meyer Lemon:

http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/factsheet.php?name=Improved+Meyer

Patty S.

Here is a link that might be useful: UC Riverside Citrus Variety Collection: Yuma Ponderosa Hybrid

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 1:25PM
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queensinfo

Thanks. I'll take pictures when I am back from this work trip. The leaves look extremely similar to my real meyer leaves. It is impossible to see the actual graft line to determine where they are growing from since it was hard to see to begin with and now the branches block it.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 2:16PM
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johnmerr(11)

It is common for Meyers to sprout a number of branches from very near the graft/bud union. Check the petiole of the leaf; if it does not have a winged petiole, it is a lemon; if it is Cuban Shaddock (most likely if it came from Four Winds) the leaf will have a rather large winged petiole.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 3:18PM
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queensinfo

Here are a couple of pics. Looks slightly winged including maybe branches that appear to be above the graft. Don't want to waste plant resources on rootstock branches.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 3:40PM
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queensinfo

More

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 3:41PM
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queensinfo

More again with huge thorns. This is the only branch with thorns and some. leaves are larger.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 3:43PM
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johnmerr(11)

Those seem to be Meyer branches; the larger leaves and large thorns are what is called a watersprout, usually indicates you are begin a bit to kind to your plant. When they outgrow the canopy, just cut them back to the general canopy level and they will revert to normal growth.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 8:47PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

I agree with John, definitely not Cuban Shaddock, but then, not sure if they use Cuban Shaddock to graft Meyer lemons to at Four Winds. Could be Rough Lemon or Macrophylla. If you provide a few photo of the graft line, we can help you to determine if this is coming from above or below the graft line. But, pretty sure this is your cultivar growing.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 10:22PM
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queensinfo

I do know about water sprouts but these thorns are significantly longer than the ones on my other Meyer and even on the old water sprouts on this tree. I will try to get some pics of the graft but even when the buds were just breaking it was really hard to tell where they were from. I guess I won't cut these yet and see what happens. Thanks for your help.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 11:51PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

I too would love a good set of photos of rootstocks

Yesterday I was doing some shaping and summer pruning in a section of the garden. My Gold Nugget has been happily growing with a few fruit set. It had one branch hanging low so I went to trim it and horrors. There were 4 happy limbs growing straight up. 3 obviously from the graft but the back and biggest one had no line or change from the rootstock through the graft. It does not need that many trunks to start with so I cut the iffy one out as best as I could. Going to spread the remaining 3 to get some space between them. I am still wondering if I was rootstock or not. But it did not need that many anyway FYI it is a new tree

    Bookmark   July 14, 2014 at 7:07PM
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molewacker z9b Napa CA (No.SFBay)(9b Danville E(SF)Bay CA)

I agree with John and Patty - looks like you have the Meyer growing back :-)

I contacted Four Winds earlier this year to check what rootstock they put their Meyers on. ....it is indeed what they use on most of their citrus: Cuban Shaddock.

My Meyer on the CS rootstock suffered much greater freeze damage than the Meyers i have on Volk or Mac - a vertical split nearly to the ground! It pushed lots of shoots from the lower areas, including below the graft. Sorry that i did not take pictures of those CS shoots; i thumbed them off promptly.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2014 at 8:51PM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

This is my rough lemon rootstock tree hope it helps.
Trace

    Bookmark   July 15, 2014 at 12:09AM
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queensinfo

Some of the leaves do look slightly winged now that I look closely

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 11:35AM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

That's the rootstock leave up close

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 12:03PM
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queensinfo

Tcamp. Looks so similar to all the leaves even the ones that I was pretty confident were above the graft appear slightly winged and maybe more rounded toward the edge than my newer Meyer from cutting. Here is a picture of the graft line as previously requested.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 12:40AM
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queensinfo

And one more of the graft and branches growing. Tough to see the graft line.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 12:42AM
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tcamp30144(7B N.ATLANTA)

Yeah maybe someone that knows more will in to me your leafs look little different I would say u have your tree back but I could be wrong.Maybe send pics to four winds.
Trace

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 12:49AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA(10b Sunset 23)

Queen, looks to be above the graft line to me. Common to have stressed citrus send out scion shoots right at the graft line. But, I agree with Trace - send your photos to Four Winds and see what they say. Also, is any part of the scion still viable? If so, prune back to green wood, and let's see if you can get any sprouting from further up, so you can compare the two leaves.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 9:30AM
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queensinfo

thanks patty and trace - i think i will try and prune back now that it may be clear. I will send the photos to Four Winds and see what they say (and report back).

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 3:02PM
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queensinfo

Here is the response from the (very helpful) folks at 4W:
it is grafted onto Cuban Shaddock Rootstock, which has larger leaves and larger thorns than the Meyer fruiting wood grafted on top. It can be tough to tell, but basically if it's coming from right in the graft union, it's usually the rootstock, since they tend to be more aggressive growers than the fruiting wood.

Seems to conflict with what a few of you stated above about what the leaves look like. I am pretty convinced now that what i thought were water spouts are probably rootstock.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2014 at 5:08PM
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