Std Cara

joncha(9a)July 6, 2014

This is a std cara cara orange tree that i have decided to plant in the ground. For the last year or so it has been planted in a large clay pot with the 5-1-1 bark mix.

I took out a beautiful producing semi-dwarf Bearrs lime tree to make space for this one, the hole to the left in the pic. I am just being overwhelmed by number of bearss limes I am producing so at least one of them needs to go. I still have two in the ground and one in a pot.

I dug the clay soil and created a mound. I did mix DG into the hole along with a lot of gypsum. So we will see.

My question is how large will a standard Cara Cara tree get. I am hoping it gets large because i need shade. jon

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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Please don't leave it with the trunk strapped up to the stake like that.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 8:56AM
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johnmerr(11)

The problem is, because it has been staked, the canopy has outgrown what that skinny trunk can support. Best thing is to lower the ties by about 3 inches every 2 months until you can remove them altogether.

Also, I would bury those exposed roots; they are too inviting to diseases and critters.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 11:56AM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Well, if you prefer to leave the canopy, I would remove the stake, then re-stake the tree using two stakes on either side of the tree. Then, loosely tie the tree, so it can flex between the two stakes to strengthen and thicken the trunk, but prevent it from snapping in half if you have gusty winds come up. Jon, I know you're in CA, but forget where you are. If you're in S. Calif., this would be imperative to do, with our occasional Santa Anas that can come up, especially in the fall. And, to answer your question, your tree should get to about 20' at complete maturity, under optimal conditions. And that could be as long as 15 years for orange trees to reach "full maturity". I would also consider painting the trunk with 1/2 strength flat latex outdoor house paint, to protect the bare trunk from sunburn, since the tree is trimmed to a standard.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 12:09PM
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joncha(9a)

Thanks Patti. I will get rid of the stake. I am in western Riv County so I know how strong the wind can get. I had a 15 foot southern magnolia tree that got snapped in half by a mini twister that ripped thru my background in May of this year.

I already painted it so now i am just going to fertilize and water to maximize growth. I will also lightly cover the exposed root crown with soil as suggested.
Thanks for the input. jon

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 2:13PM
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joncha(9a)

Here is a picture of how professionals grow trees.

Small skinny trees without stakes or supports. LOL

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 8:34PM
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johnmerr(11)

Not "skinny"; sufficiently strong trunks to support the corresponding canopy. Never been staked.... never will need to be staked.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 9:43PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

What John said. Small canopies, decent sized grafted rootstock. By the time the trees are the size of yours, their canopies nearly touch the ground and their trunks will be 3 times the diameter of your tree. No need for staking. Or painting trunks at that point.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 10:21PM
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joncha(9a)

I believe my tree will do fine as is. I am not staking this tree because it is a strong tree. Your advise is off base here.

You guys sure know a lot about a tree by looking at one picture of it.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 11:44PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Jon, this was not meant as a slight to your tree in any way! Your tree looks great, just has a very large canopy in comparison to the girth of the trunk (i.e., could snap in a good Santa Ana). So, just staking it as I described will prevent that, while allowing your tree to develop some trunk strength and girth. John and I were just commenting on the commercial photo you posted, and why those trees would never need to be staked. This isn't anything you did - it was the grower who created this "standard" looking tree. "Standard" can not only mean being grafted to standard rootstocks, but can also refer to a tree that has been created to have a taller trunk, and higher canopy, as with your tree. Not a bad thing, just need to take some extra precautions with regard to protecting the trunk, as the bark is still young, tender and thin, as well as protect the tree from snapping in high winds. That's all. And yes, we can determine all that from the photos you provided :-)

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 11:35AM
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joncha(9a)

OK fair enough. Because it had that stake which i didn't even notice when i planted it in the ground people assume it is weak and top heavy which it is not.

This tree was not root bound at all. Actually it was thriving in mostly bark and I should have shown a picture the root system of this tree. It was large and almost like a bare rooted tree when i planted it in the ground. I was able to remove it from the pot without any root damage at all. The bark just fell off of the roots with a couple of shakes.

I have multiple trees in pots so occasionally i like to take the best looking one and stick it in the ground. It might make long term sense for me to throw that tree away and go get a fresh cara cara from my grower. But I will give this one a chance for the time being. jon

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 5:24PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

That's probably why you have such a nice canopy - excellent oxygen and drainage for the root system. The trunk may feel pretty sturdy, but that is one very large (and very healthy) canopy, so I wouldn't take any chances. Especially knowing how awful those Santa Ana gusts can be in our S. Calif. areas, especially up in your area. And, this Cara Cara should do very well for you in the ground. Mine has been in the ground now for about 4 years, and this season's fruit was the best by far. Absolutely outstanding. Just love this particular orange. My favorite right up there with the Ortanique tangor and the Moro.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 5:36PM
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joncha(9a)

Me too. I also have a semi dwarf Cara Cara in the ground that put out some delicious fruit last year. I also like the way they produce early in the season and create a good partnership for a extended navel orange harvest with my washington navels and my late lanes.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 6:02PM
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johnmerr(11)

Jon,

If you do not stake your tree as Patty suggested, or lower the ties gradually as I recommended, be sure to post a photo of the tree when the wind has broken it in half, so that others here can learn. You have a beautiful, healthy tree; but to the wind it looks like a spinnaker supported by a pencil.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 7:03PM
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joncha(9a)

It is a lot larger than a pencil fyinfo. At least twice as big and the rootstock is another double of that. I have never used supports for any of my in ground citrus trees.

I do have many construction saw horses that i can use as temporary supports if the wind acts up. I never had to use them for citrus but I am using two of them right now for my in ground southern magnolia tree. The last one got snapped in half.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 7:57PM
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molewacker z9b Napa CA (No.SFBay)(9b Danville E(SF)Bay CA)

Here is a pic of my Cara from April of last year (it was awaiting a spot in the ground). The canopy had grown a bit - - - and a gust hit it. The topmost wrap broke. Snappy.

I always get rid of the stakes gradually now - as described above.
-George

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 8:01PM
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johnmerr(11)

Note that I did not say your trunk was the size of a pencil; I said "to the wind" it looks like a spinnaker sail supported by a pencil. In a strong wind, without support your tree WILL break; but it is your tree and your choice. It seems to me you DID ask for advice; whether you take it or not is up to you.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 9:07PM
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joncha(9a)

Just not from. Please do not respond to my posts anymore. You have negativity issues that this forum can't resolve.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 11:03PM
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johnmerr(11)

This a forum...look up the definition. However, you are right about one thing... someone here has issues.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 11:24PM
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gregbradley(Upland, CA USDA 9b Sunset 19)

Joncha,

When you say "Just not from. Please do not respond to my posts anymore. You have negativity issues that this forum can't resolve." as you have just posted, it doesn't make any sense to anyone. Did this make sense to you when you posted it?

Can anyone make sense out of "Just not from."?

You asked a question in your original post that indicates you know very little about citrus. You have received some really excellent advice from three different experts who have struggled to help you while you have acted poorly. They have all been really patient with your bizarre behavior. None of them have "negativity issues" but have tried to help you while you have done your best to make it difficult.

I think the three people who have tried to help you deserve some thanks. If you think you have been wronged, you should stop drinking, step away from the bong pipe, or talk to your doctor about changing your meds.

Now you have an actual complaint about "negativity".

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 11:37PM
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joncha(9a)

If i want experts i would not come here. This is a non professional forum. If i want professional advice i will go to UCR or UCD. Although Patti is pretty good and she knows how to communicate with others in a civil manner.

I have over 60 citrus trees that produce hundreds of pounds of organic citrus. If i want advice from Greg Brady i will watch the Brady bunch reruns. LOL. You guys take yourselfs too seriously. Lighten up.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 11:49PM
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joncha(9a)

Hey Greg you are included in the do not respond to my posts list along with that other person

Anybody who lives in upland must like diesel fumes. The trucking capital of the world. Enjoy the smog my friend.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 12:41AM
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BarbJP CA 15-16/9B

Wow. just...wow.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 3:09PM
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hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

Okay, let's all behave like the adults we are. I'm not sure what it is with the anonymity of the Internet that makes folks act in a way they would never consider if they were having the same conversation face to face.

We've got lots of experienced folks on this forum that can provide some very helpful information to forum members. And, yes, some really are "experts" on this list, being commercial growers, horticulturists, botanists, chemists, etc. I am just an "expert hobbyist", being an Advanced Master Gardener, and having a biology background (I'm an RN).

So, let's all simmer down, treat each other with respect, and see what we can do to continue to help each other out. I love this quote: "Advice is like snow - the softer it falls, the longer it dwells upon, and the deeper in sinks into the mind." (Samuel Taylor Coleridge). Let's all be soft in our advice, and kind in our responses.

Patty S.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 5:41PM
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johnmerr(11)

I agree. Everyone here knows my constant quest to be a certified international curmudgeon; but I am NEVER intentionally rude. As for Jon, I think he probably does not need to worry about people responding again soon to any of his posts. The comment about Upland was completely, but completely uncalled for.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 6:24PM
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johnmerr(11)

Oh, and one final thing for Jon... good luck in getting that "expert advice" from UCD or UCR. I am a UCD alum and I have ben unable to get any advice from either UCD or UCR in 8 years; and I am the biggest Meyer lemon grower in the world! I could likely give them some good advice; but no one asks. I first found this forum, because I was looking for advice from people who actually KNOW what the hell they are doing. If you have any contacts, look instead to Texas A&M Citrus research center; they actually give a damn about what commercial growers are doing; they don't sit in their "Ivory Towers" doing research on things that growers figured out years ago. And that is my last word on this issue.

This post was edited by Johnmerr on Wed, Jul 9, 14 at 20:14

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 6:56PM
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joncha(9a)

Well i don't like being condescended to or insulted so i am thru with this forum. It has just happened too many times.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 8:50PM
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johnmerr(11)

Proverbs 18:2

    Bookmark   July 10, 2014 at 12:16PM
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joncha(9a)

Unstaked but worried about the coming freeze.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2014 at 8:10PM
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axier - Z10, Basque Country (Spain)

Why has it exposed roots?

    Bookmark   November 10, 2014 at 2:49AM
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axier - Z10, Basque Country (Spain)

Deleted, duplicated post. Sorry

This post was edited by axier on Mon, Nov 10, 14 at 2:51

    Bookmark   November 10, 2014 at 2:50AM
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