My Norway spruce screen--pics, finally

sprucemanMarch 13, 2010


Two years ago I planted about 300 Norway spruce seedlings in a staggered double row. Here are some pics I took this winter and last summer. I am starting with just one pic to make sure i get at least one in. the photobucket site for me is so, so very slow, and it seems I can get the codes to paste in just one at a time, and then I have to reload the page, which takes forever.

Yes, I need a fast connection--for my sanity, at least.

Anyway, here is the first pic. Last summer I reported that a few of my seedlings--maybe about 20 or so--were showing free growth. that is, after the first flush that came from the winter bud, after a brief pause, they resumed growth and kept on growing for up to two more months. the pic here is of the fastest growing of these. When I planted it it was a 20" seedling. the first year it grew about 10 inches, then this last year it grew about 40" For scale, the cage it is protected in is 47" high. the snow is maybe 15" deep here.


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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Hi Spruce,

A fast connection is a must when posting many photos.

PhotoBucket is a back and forth thing always leaving the two pages up to copy and paste.

It takes time to master the sequence of events and lately PB has complicated this process.

Glad to see you are posting photos and looking forward to seeing more.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2010 at 12:05PM
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This next pic is a long view of a part of the screen, which is all together about 1,000 feet long:

Then this next is a closeup of the average of the better seedlings. Most are about 3 feet tall and this specific one is just a bit taller. A few are just about at the top of the 47" wire cages. The tallest, shown in the first pic I posted under this topic, is by a good margin the tallest, and it looks a bit "freaky."

Well, I post a few more later--it takes just about an hour to process each one.

Dave: Monday I will start checking around and see what kind of fast connection I can get. I may get back to you guys for some advice about what's best. I hate to spend the money, but I just can't function this way.


    Bookmark   March 13, 2010 at 1:48PM
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Here are the last three pics in this series. I talked about my secrre two or three times in the last two years, but offered no pics. there ae a few really small seedlings--there are either those I replaced with new little seedlings last year, and they grew poorly, or they are seedlings damaged by rabbits, deet, or groundhogs, and are slowly recovering. In two years I expect the better seedlings to all be about 6 feet tall or a bit more, and a year after that I will be able to remove the cages.

This last set of pics is from last summer. The first one shows the top portion of the free growth of the fastest growing seedling.

This next pic shows just the tip of the same tree:

And this final one shows one of the other seedlings that had some good "free growth." It is more typical of what they all--the ones with free growth--looked like.

Thanks for your help in getting me up to speed with pic posting. I will post more later of a few of my little cultivars, and then some of my timberland in the MD mountains.


    Bookmark   March 13, 2010 at 3:03PM
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james_va(z6/7 VA)

Looks like it will be quite a screen, Spruce! Thanks for posting,


    Bookmark   March 13, 2010 at 8:38PM
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Good going - I've frequently seen free growth like this on Sitka Spruce, but can't recall seeing it on Norway Spruce before.

If it's taking an hour to do each pic, you definitely need a new internet provider!


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 7:24AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Thanks Spruce for the photos. All I can say is it's about f-time! lol

With internet providers do a search for DSL Maryland. It's fast + cheap.

See ya,


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 9:43AM
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I am in a bit of a rural area--I will see if i can get DSL out here.

And, I should make another point--when I said it took an hour to get the codes for each pic with my slow connection, I was grossly exaggerating. The first time or two I was going after the "codes" to paste in, I messed up a bit and/or there was a glitch. That sometimes does happen--"network error," etc. What made me think it took so long was I thought I had to download the full album page each time to select my next pic and get the codes. The first time I tried to go to "next" in the "previous/current/next" window, it didn't work. Later it did. So I would say it took about 10 minutes to get each pic's code. Not that bad, since I don't send and won't send pics every day. But if I send about 6 at a time, then it is an hour.

I want to clarify this and make sure what I say is accurate so those of us with slow connections won't be scared away from the idea of posting pics. It is definately doable, so don't worry. And once you have done it a couple of times, it's easy. And we need to share. Sorry it took me so long.

Just two hints for us dial upers. #1--when you want to post some pics, upload the ones you want to post in a seperate group and/or put them in a separate album by themselves. Then when you want get the codes, you won't have to go to an album each time to find your pic--it will just be the next one in the "previous/current/next" window. And you don't have to get the codes in the order you will put them in your post--you can move them around. And you can edit the text within the codes--or I should say the text of your "label." That won't affect the codes. Don't, of course, change any of the HTML code--that will mess everything up.

Then, when you want to post, with the pics, don't open the topic and reply right away. Open your word processor and as you get the codes paste them in there and create your text. Then if you are interrupted or something happens during the process, which can take a bit of time, you can just save everything there. Then when you are finished, open the topic and the window for your response and paste the whole thing in.

Tom? I did it, were waiting for you. I want to see your plantings!


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 10:19AM
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God, those things are growing like weeds. You should have an amazing backdrop/fenceline here in a decade. I'm looking forward to future pictures so we can see the progress.

Was your snow this year unusual or do you normally get quite a dumping?


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 11:19AM
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Amazing! Thanks for posting these. I wonder if you've ever had a problem with deer knocking over the cages?

    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 11:45AM
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gnomeabram(SE Wisconsin 5B)

Great pics Spruce, thanks for sharing! I like your tree cages, I would have preferred to use those for my trees, but ended up using poultry netting because of cost considerations. It's worked very well except when it collapses under the snow. My trees a little farther along than yours, and about half of them will be "graduating" from their cages this spring. Out of my 30 or so NS, only 2 of them had free growth last year. But the buds this year are huge and I'm expecting a lot of growth.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 12:30PM
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The snow here! Excuse my language, but all I can say is holy s--t!

I have always loved snow--I mean really, really loved snow! No one--really--can love snow more than I do.

I won't say this year changed my mind about snow any. And I have always known really, really big snows can be dangerous, but this brought it all home. My wife loves snow and always wanted "the big one" to come." Well, it came, and she has a little more realistic idea of snow.

Here in Northern Va, snow is not really a regular thing in winter. Some years we get virtually nothing, other years a total of maybe 15 or 20 inches.

This year we got a record amount. We got one big 17" storm in December. Really, that's big for here--it was about the 6th biggest here ever. Then we had a couple of 4 inchers or so.

Then Feb 5 "all hell broke loose." Conservatively we had 25" many points nearby measured 30" or more. I heard of a few that had 40" in this storm. And it drifted some. And it was very heavy and dense--not wet, but very dense. It was basically impossible to walk through it--it would take me 5 minutes to go 10 feet without "busting myself." Our road--a main state road and school bus route was closed. We have a 350 foot driveway and there was nothing I could do to get us out, and if I got out, there was no where to go.

Then the power went out! The temp outside with a 15 mph wind was 16 degrees f. I started a fire in the fireplace to keep us warm. We were told the power would be out for 5 days. Miraculously it came back on in about 16 hours. Whew! No power/snowed in.

Then three days later another storm hit. This time not so much snow--about 8" here, but points just to the north, 20 to 30" again. Winds up to 50 or 60 mph. Everything was a whiteout! Road closed again. Got shovelled out, winds came, snowed in again. The road was closed off and on for the next 3 days--cars stuck and abandoned everywhere. Finally they brought in big snowblowers. One called a "Snowgo" threw the snow up and out in great plumes of 100 feet.

In the front part of our land where where it slopes down to the road, the snow drifted in something like 10 feet or more. It will be another week before my little trees in that area see any sunlight.

Wow, did we have snow!


Yes, the deer knock them over. I have them anchored with heavy rocks on the bottom rung of the wire. But it is not much of a problem. Once in a while a deer will get tangeled up and really tear one up--or he will carry it a good distance away. Generally they do the job and I walk around often enough so if they knock one away, I put it back fast.


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 12:44PM
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In posts last year I described these cages. They are a bit expensive, maybe at current prices about $5 each for the wire. I use what is called woven wire cattle fencing, and it comes in roles of 320 feet, which is enough for about 30 cages. The price varies, but the last time I think a roll cost something like $150. I save by using rocks to anchor the cages instead of posts or stakes.

I get a moderately heavy grade--I can't remember exactly, but I think it is 10/12 guage. The lightest grade just are not stiff enough to hold up well, and the heaviest, which I think is 8/10, is real overkill, and a roll is monstrously heavy. And I don't get high tensile, which is much more expensive, and has no advantages for this use. One advantage of these is they are strong and will last for 30 years or more. After a tree is big enough to resist damage--buck rubbing is the worst thing for spruce trees--I simply pick them up and move them to another newly planted tree.

In a few years I won't need all my cages any more--I have several hundred--and I will be happy to give them away!


    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 1:04PM
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gnomeabram(SE Wisconsin 5B)

I think my poultry netting cost about $2 per cage, and they have done their job well for the price. I made 2 ft stakes out of scap pressure treated wood and tied three of them to each cage with galvanized wire.

I really lucked out that we haven't had a winter like you just had. THAT would have been a disaster for sure! The other downside other than maintenance was the fact that the branches wouldn't naturally grow through the holes of the netting and some have been bent upward. I plan to trim those back once the cages are removed.

I've paid attention to other young conifers around the neighborhood over the years, and concluded that once trees reach about 4 feet tall, the deer don't bother them any more. Some of mine are at that stage now, and they will be on their own come next month.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 7:25PM
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I should explain a little more about the free growth I had last year: I have never seen anything like what I had last year on seedlings that were a total of about 4 to 6 years old. They were planted two years ago, but counting the time in the seedbed and/or growing as "transplants," they were between 4 to 6 years old. Most were about 24 to 30 inches before they started growing last year.

Out of about 300, only about 15 showed "significant" free growth after the initial shoot finished elongating. About 10 others had some extra shoot growth on side branches, but none on the leader. A few more had an inch or two of extra growth, but I couldn't say it progressed as "free growth."

One of the most interesting things to me was how long this free growth continued. Most continued growing until the middle of August, but the one that grew so much more than the others continued until the second week of September. I was afraid it would keep on going until it was too late to set a winter bud.

I had seen some very limited free growth before in Norway spruce, but mostly limited to very tiny seedlings. I had also very occasionally seen fresh shoots after the initial elongation of the growth held in the winter bud, but I couldn't say it was really "free growth" as such. Mostly this came in response to some damage by a weevil or maybe something else.

Gnomebeam: Here in Northern VA I have to keep my little trees caged for much longer because of buck rubbing. Sometimes this is very, very agressive and can lead to the complete destruction of trees 8 feet tall and up to 4 inches in diameter. The deer here are expecially aggressive towards conifers. They will rub and damage trees up to 6 inches in diameter, but the damage on trunks that large is usually relatively minor and the bark grows back in two or three years.


    Bookmark   March 15, 2010 at 10:31AM
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Here is an update of the progress of the Norway spruce screen I planted three years ago. In my last post on this, I showed pictures of one of my young trees that showed "free growth." Here is a picture of the tree that made so much growth last year, not stopping until the end of August.

This year I had a few more trees show the free growth, one of which grew a full 48 inches. Here are a series of pictures. The first three were taken in July while the growth was still rapid.

This last one I took this week, showing the full growth with the scale of a yard stick.

Back to the more "normal" trees. Some trees don't show good growth until the third year. This picture is a case in point. The first two years it grew only about 4 inches per year, but this last year it took off a bit. I planted this as a "transplant" from Musser Forests that was about 28" tall. As you can see, it is now out above the gage, which is 47 inches high. If you plant Norway spruce seedlings and they don�t grow much the first two years, don't despair.

Finally a long shot of a part of the whole double-row planting. Most of the trees are doing very, very well. A few are replacements I planted two years ago, and they are behind the others and don't show up well in the picture.

By the end of this growing season this screen will not yet be much of a screen, but most of the trees will be well over five feet tall and really on their way!


    Bookmark   February 18, 2011 at 9:23PM
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI

You are indeed Spruceman! Looks like those spruce like that VA soil. Thanks for the update.


    Bookmark   February 18, 2011 at 9:56PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

enjoyed much.



    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 8:07AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Thanks for the up date.

Now that they are out growing the cages and become lunch for the Deer what is your next line of defense?


    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 8:50AM
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It seems that they could reach over the 47" high cages and nip the leaders, but they don't, except very rarely. Also, if they can't get near the tip, they don't nip--they generally don't nip a shoot far from the tip.

And, deer here, and I don't think much anywhere, much like Norway spruce. The main danger is buck rubbing. I should take a picture and post it showing what buckrubbing does--complete tree descruction. I keep the cages up until that danger passes. Two more year's growth, and the larger of those in my screen will be OK. Once the branches at about 40 inches high have a spread of 3 feet or so, the deer leave them alone.


    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 9:06AM
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"deer ... I don't think much anywhere, much like Norway spruce"

They do over here! Often seen them browsed to topiary in forest plantations. Just goes to show how variable deer's taste is from place to place. But once they reach about 1-1.5m tall, they're clear and start to grow away.


    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 2:04PM
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That's terrible. I would like to think they would not be eaten so much over there.

Anyway, here they suffer enough from the buck rubbing. Here is a picture of a typical result:

This tree, a Norway spruce was a little over 1 meter tall(maybe about 42"), and as you can see, its completely gone. I have seen deer break off thicker stems, and often right down to ground level. This kind of damage results from the second phase of buck rubbing--the territorial marking. The earlier phase, the one when the "felt" is falling or being rubbed off the antlers, does not destroy trees so completely. But it can remove most or all of the bark, killing a tree just as readily.


    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 3:13PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Maybe different deer species?

I don't see them touch P.abies here either. I can't wait to get my P.omorika screen in...not 200 but hey its something!

    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 5:57PM
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"Maybe different deer species? "

Yep; Roe Deer here


Here is a link that might be useful: Roe Deer

    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 7:11PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, Spruceman and all!

I have a question related to Norway Spruce from seeds...

Does anyone know approximately when seeds might begin to sprout in my area?


    Bookmark   April 5, 2011 at 2:55PM
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In my forest over here, Sitka spruce is nibbled of by mice or rabbits when it is 1 cm tall...I wondered why there were a coiple of giant Sitka Spruces over here (well: 30-40m is very tall in NL), the seeds were viable and yet I could not find any seedlings. Until I wnet by night with a lamp on my head. I could clearly see very small spruces of 1 cm.
The larger Sitka spruces that survive (under woodrubble) are untouched by deer once they are 50-80 cm tall.
Norway spruce OTOH is clearly constantly nibbled by (roe)deer. Abies grandis you'll find by the thousands and they all look like bonsais.

In gardens, Norway spruce puts on well over a metre on many occasions over here. Funny thing to see: a tree of 1 m with 1 metre or so new growth.

Your spruces look great BTW: seem to do fine!

    Bookmark   April 5, 2011 at 6:38PM
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pam_chesbay(VA 8a/7b)

Spruce: Sorry to tune in late for the show but want to say that I really enjoyed the photos of your Norway spruce screen and the accompanying text.

I remember when you were planning the screen. I also remember the first year - how much you had to water to keep the little seedlings alive. All that work paid off. Great job!

Deer rubbing is a problem here too. Fortunately, the problem is limited to 2-3 weeks in late fall when they are rubbing fuzz off their antlers. I read that deer dislike the sensation of something they can't see around their ankles and legs so I ran monofilament fishing line around and between the trees - at about 18" and 36". Then I hung long pieces of mylar (from a party store) along the monofilament line - it's bright, light, dances in the wind, and is visible at night.

Worked great!

    Bookmark   July 23, 2011 at 6:09PM
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Pam and folks:


I can give an update of how they have done this year. Last year we had officially, according to the US Drought Monitor site, an extreme drought here. That is one level less than the worst level--"Exceptional," which is what parts of the south, including parts of Texas are suffering from this year.

I had a few die during this drought, and some more died half way--half the branches lost all their needles and died. They had been in the ground for 3 years, so I thought they were safe and was not watching carefully enough.

So, after I noticed the dead and dying trees, I started to water them with a hose--I had 600 feet I could stretch out in two directions from my faucet, and I could get to 85% of the trees. After I started watering, no more showed stress or died. I gave each tree about 2 or 2.5 minutes, which added up to about 10 gallons. I watered them about 4 times during the latter part of the drought.

Of those I couldn't reach, without buying more hose, none died or showed stress. These were near, on the one side, a line of trees that blocked the wind and reduced the amount of afternoon sun. On the other side, they were on a 20% east facing slope, away from the worst of the sun and wind.

This year, most of these trees have grown less than the year before, but a few had very good growth--30 inches or so. My watering saved a lot of them, or so I guess, but it did not alleviate all the effects of the lack of rain.

In addition, there has been no "free growth" this year. All the trees extended their initial shoot, and grew no more after that. Te that had the free growth in the last two years are not among the trees that had the best growth this year. Over time the growth of these trees has evened out somewhat--there are no individuals that have had spectacular growth every year, but there are a few laggards.

I also wrote that I planted trees from 4 different seed sources. There is some good variation among my seedlings, but I can't trace much specific or consistent to any individual seed source. Most of them look like potentially fine trees. If I can determine anything about the seed sources as they grow, I will get back to you all later.

Your buck rubbing solution seems like a very good one--much less expensive than my cages, and maybe easier to set up. I have also been using some repellent, and it seems to stop most browsing, but not buck rubbing.


    Bookmark   July 23, 2011 at 8:13PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Spruceman, Nice trees!

I do have a couple of questions for you though. What made you go with Picea Abies, as opposed to our native Spruce here in VA (Picea Rubens) Red Spruce?

What part of the state are you in? (county?)

Also, do you have / grow any Red Spruce? Canaan /Balsm Fir? Both are natives here, although the fir I don't think does nearly as well below 4,000 feet.

Anyway, was just wondering.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2011 at 12:56AM
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Norway spruce grow much, much better here. I am just north of Winchester, VA. This is a very hot and dry part of Z6, and because we are in the rain shadow of the Allegheny Mountains, very, very drought prone.

I have a lot of experience with Picea rubens, because it grows naturally on my timberland in far western MD, at an elevation of 2,800 feet. It grows well there in a natural woodland setting. In the old days people, farmers especially, would dig these up out of the woods and plant them near their farmhouses. I had just such an old farm house (recently torn down) with several red spruce planted. They grew OK, but not nearly as well as Norway spruce. Red spruce in that farmyard environment are subject to a needle-cast disease that causes then to lose their lower limbs, sometimes to a fairly extreme degree. And they bleed huge amounts of sap from their trunks--I am not sure of the cause of this. They also grow at about half the rate of Norway spruce.

Red spruce grows best above about 3,800 feet, especially on the so called "balds" on the higher mountain tops.

Canaan fir is adapted to even higher elevations, and is not native to my timberland. I have some planted there, but they are not especially beautiful trees, and are not very fast growing.

In short, although red spruce and Canaan fir are Native to the state of VA, they are not native to my area here in Northern VA, and don't grow well if planted here.

Norway spruce is a very special tree for its vigor, adaptability to a wide range of climatic conditions, and I think at its best, is one of the very most beautiful trees in the world. To get the best NS, one needs a good genetic strain for your specific area, and good deep soil with a good amount of magnesium. Really healthy NS trees with a good amount of weep to the foliage (a characteristic that varies with genetic strain), I think are at the top of the tree world.


    Bookmark   July 24, 2011 at 8:00AM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Thanks for the reply Spruceman! Howdy (almost) neighbor! Im in Old Town Alexandria here.

Yeah, the growth rate of Picea Abies can't be beat, neither can its adaptability. My favorite spruce is the Red Spruce so I am partial to it though, but fully understand and agree with your choice. Im very familiar with both Red Spruce and Canaan Fir's natural area as I hike quite alot up in the highlands of WV. (Dolly Sods Wilderness, Roaring Plains Wilderness, Flatrock Plains, Bear Rocks Preserve, Spruce Knob, Gaudineer, Cranberry Wilderness ... etc. Anyway, I didn't think that Needle Cast Disease would be any more of an issue than where it naturally occurs. Maybe perhaps it has something to do with farming and the fungus Rhizosphaera kalkhoffii being more prevalent on farms? Interesting.

Also very familiar with the Allegheny Rain Shadow too, and yeah, you are in a very drought prone place. Some places even right up against the Allegheny Front (eastern Continental divide) can have a very significant rain shadow while the highlands less than a few miles away (and up) get massive amounts of rain/ snow.

Im not personally a huge fan of Canaan fir either. I like them, but they are no where near as beautiful as the Red Spruce, and do not produce the same kind of forest at Red Spruce do. If you have not ever seen a virgin Red Spruce forest, it rivals any forest primeval you can imagine anywhere. Most people do not know but there is still a tract of virgin (uncut) Red Spruce forest in WV. Its called Gaudineer Scenic Area. It is protected. As you know all of the highlands were logged and every last bit of the Red Spruce forest was cut, EXCEPT this one tract. About 50 acres of the area is still virgin red spruce forest. It is fantastic. Majestic 100-150 foot tall Red Spruce forest, covered in green moss. Simply stunning. It is dying out some, but mostly only do to natural reforestation. I think the oldest trees there are around 300 years old. IF you get a chance I highly recommend a visit, along with all of the other places I listed.

Thanks for the reply! Looking forward to see how all your trees do and how big they get! Best,


    Bookmark   July 24, 2011 at 10:59AM
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Thanks for the tip about Gaudineer--I have driven on route 250 past it many times. Not too far away is the Rothkugel Norway spruce plantation. I may make a point of visiting the area this summer or fall.

I have one nice little grove red spruce--a group of five trees that are something like 85 feet tall--in a stream valley on one side of my timberland. I love those trees. There are a few others scattered about.

I also have some Norway spruce plantations about 45 years old. They are on the verge of becoming fairly impressive stands of trees. The tallest are now about 95 feet tall and are still averaging over two feet per year. If you like, I could give you a tour of my timberland, including the red spruce, Norway spruce, etc. I have posted some pics of my timberland in the trees forum in the last two years or so. Send me an e-mail if you want to arrange something. And/or maybe we could meet to visit Gaudineer.

Also, for many years I lived in D.C., and then after tha for a time in Arlington, VA.


    Bookmark   July 24, 2011 at 12:48PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Hey Spruce,

No problem! I love to share places that I know and love, especially with people who would very much appreciate such places, and may not know they are there. I was just up in WV this past weekend (again) and did not get a chance to visit Gaudineer this time. This time I went to Blackwater Falls, and then on to Dolly Sods. Blackwater Falls is nice and all, but a bit too touristy for me. I can almost never go into that area and NOT go up to DS. I just simply love it up there.

I did pay extra attention on this trip to what people have planted around their properties, and sure enough, there are a TON of Norway Spruce. I even saw some areas where it looked like they have naturalized a bit. That said, I also did see quite a lot of properties that had Red Spruce planted as well. Granted, they were probably more elevated than you, and also much closer (and some were on) the Allegheny Front, so they probably were not as affected by the rain/ snow shadow. None the less I was still surprised at the number of places I saw that had Red Spruce planted, even at lower elevations.

I would LOVE to visit your Timberland. I did see and read your other threads in the trees forum, and it looks FANTASTIC! It also looks like you are a wonderful steward of the forests on your land as well. I would definitely love to see it, and am really not that far away. How far up into Western MD is it? I have 2 brothers and sister in laws up in Martinsburg, WV, and could always combine a trip to see them with a day trip or stop on the way up/ back.

I would almost kill to own even just a half acre of land that looked like some of yours in your photos. Not to build on, hunt, or anything like that, but just to go to and get away. Pitch a tent, and stay for a couple days. I love the open meadows surrounded by forests and the high altitude wetlands / bogs / beaver dams...etc. Not sure I will ever be able to afford even a small parcel of undeveloped land in this life tho, but if I could it would remain untouched as long as I had it and I would do my best to make sure it stayed untouched long after I was gone. Having a place like that to go to would make living where I do more more bearable. I don't dislike it where I am, but Ive been here for 40 years (my whole life) and well, its just gotten kind of old.

I'm always up for a trip to Gaudineer or anywhere else around the MNF for that matter. =o)

Also, glad to see (at least from what you posted in your other threads) that your Hemlocks seem to not be suffering from the woolly adelgid. Just this weekend at Blackwater Falls State park I saw many many hemlocks which were infested, and way too many snags that once were beautiful hemlocks. Just sad.

Anyway, Thanks for sharing that with me! Hope to get to see it some day!


    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 11:52AM
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I would be interested to see how well they are doing

    Bookmark   April 5, 2013 at 7:08PM
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beng(z6 western MD)

Spruceman, your Norways aren't even fully established yet....

I'd heartily recommend DSL -- my bill with the cheapest DSL was the same as w/a dialup provider, and 20-25 times faster.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2013 at 9:39AM
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I will take a picture and post it soon. They are coming along nicely, and in two or three years I will mow around them. Tor now, the weeds, and especially the blackberry canes, provide some protection from the deer. Of course, I have a lot of them in my "deer prevention" cages.

Beng: no DSL available here--I am too far away from the nearest switching station, or whatever it is called. Verizon has a large fiber-optic cable running across my front yard. I called Verizon, and they say they have no plans to hook up anyone around here--not enough customers in the area to make their investment profitable. I could sign up for the Hughesnet satellite, but reading reviews, and looking at the price, I don't think it's worth it. If I am going to pay all that money, I insist on something fast enough for internet TV/streaming video.


    Bookmark   April 6, 2013 at 9:16PM
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beng(z6 western MD)

It's unfortunate about DSL. I happened to get just into the "range" of a DSL hub -- about 3 miles. Verizon eventually wants to do away w/DSL (and the entire, old telco phone line system), in favor of FIOS and wireless (cell phone) systems.

I'm not as up-to-date about internet stuff as I used to be, but notebooks (and assumedly PCs) can access the internet on wireless now, but not sure of the prices. And yes, satellite internet is pretty expensive, and IIRC, still require an old telco phone hookup for uploading.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2013 at 10:45AM
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