Interesting article about Pinus Ponderosa var. willamettensis

shastensisMarch 26, 2012

I guess this is a variety of Ponderosa native to the Willamette valley which able to tolerate conditions that ponderosas from drier areas are not able to, and about how retired loggers are behind the effort to conserve the variety's genetics...

Here is a link that might be useful: High Country News Article

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wisconsitom

Very cool, Sluice. Glad to see this happening.

+oM

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 10:54PM
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wisconsitom

I mean shastensis!

    Bookmark   March 26, 2012 at 10:55PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Most planted ponderosa (and perhaps most Coulter) pines here in the Seattle area now appear to have a presumably serious needle cast problem, with a large proportion of rust colored foliage. I have assumed the affected ponderosa might all be from outside the area, wondered if the locally native ones could be resistant. We have been in a cool phase since 2006.

I also know of plantings where the trees are in standing water much (most?) of the time, yet look normal. Western Oregon origin stock, adapted to high water tables?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 12:38AM
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wisconsitom

I see ponderosas like that here too, B. In fact, we ended up taking down a couple good-sized ones. Somehow, they were able to live long enough to acquire some size, but looked like crap year in and year out.

Meanwhile, there are some perfectly fine looking ones around too. I became infatuated with this pine enough to include it in my first year of afforestation up at my land. These were of S. Dakota origins and the vendor said these are more acclimated to humidity than those from further west, but not so far west as to be the native Oregon type. So far, and it's only been three years in my ground, they look happy.

+oM

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 5:28PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Have not see same problem with any Jeffrey pine here, a species which I consider to be the superior ornamental tree in other respects as well.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 7:17PM
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georgeinbandonoregon(z9 OR)

interesting article. assume that the south dakota strain (possibly from the black hills population?) of ponderosa pine you are planting belong to ssp. scopulorum (aka rocky mtn. ponderosa pine) as oppossed to to the west coast strain ssp. ponderosa of which "willmettensis" might be either a variety (or forma) or a separate subspecies? FWIW, ponderosa pines common companion douglas fir is also divided into a western ssp. (menziesii) and an eastern (glauca) and the eastern form is allegedly also more adaptpable to midwest and eastern conditions than the western.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 7:24PM
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wisconsitom

Yes that's right George. Sometimes though, even experienced tree geeks need to come back down to reality. Since I planted those ponderosas, numerous red pines have also been planted nearby. Turns out there's a reason red pine is so commonly planted here! MUCH greater growth rate being preeminent. But I do like the looks of my (relatively) little ponderosas.

+oM

    Bookmark   March 27, 2012 at 11:03PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Many scopulorum seen in cultivation here, don't know why. Rocky Mountain Douglas fir prone to Rhabdocline in climates moister than its homeland.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2012 at 12:51AM
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beng(z6 western MD)

****
Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 27, 12 at 17:28

These were of S. Dakota origins and the vendor said these are more acclimated to humidity than those from further west, but not so far west as to be the native Oregon type. So far, and it's only been three years in my ground, they look happy.
****

I've got the same hope for a 6' Ponderosa planted ~6 seasons ago. It's OK now, but a ~16' Jeffrey pine planted 8 seasons ago looked fine until just a couple yrs ago. Now it's got needlecast bad & it's climbing up the tree from the lowest branches. This despite me keeping the fallen needles cleared away as best I could. Fungicide isn't a reasonable solution for me.

Interesting that some Ponderosas in WA are getting needlecast.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2012 at 12:20PM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Around Seattle it seems to be pretty much all. But I have not gone tree to tree, recorded the level of infestation on each.

The closest locally native ones I can think of right off are near Kent. I have not checked these for infestation. Does seem like I saw some problems with native ones south of Tacoma, driving through there on I-5. But, again, I did not take an organized survey, write anything down.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2012 at 2:40PM
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wisconsitom

Yeah Beng, likewise for me, extraordinary measures are out of the question. This is a plantation project, not "landscaping". So those poderosas will do whatever they do. My main method of coping with any potential problem is to keep them a small part of the overall project! As in, no more are or will be planted.

+oM

    Bookmark   March 28, 2012 at 5:43PM
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