We are talking about trying lisianthus this year. I remember reading that one should buy started plants of them. WHat variety is the best for cutting and also for field grown flowers? What supplier do you use?
For first time field producers, the experts say that the Echo series is the best one with which to experiment. It is a Group 2 which means that it flowers late spring, early summer. Last year we grew the white in this series because the one we wanted either had crop failure or the seed wasn't available. You'll want to use support netting because it gets tall. I think the catalog says that the Echo series gets 30 inches; however, I'm pretty sure it was taller than that. We grew a new series which is a combination of three different types for the other colors. This series is also grouped -- as in 1, 2, 1-2, 2-3, 2-4, 3-4. Therefore, we had lisianthus blooming late spring into late fall. Ours are grown in our greenhouse/hightunnels particularly for those early and late crops. They are also protected from the intense sunlight which is important. If you grow them in the field, they will need this protection. For this reason, some growers plant them where taller plants are going to shade them during the afternoon sun. Some even plant them under maple trees. If they're shaded in this way, they will also stretch -- which is what you'll want to achieve for those nice long stems. The central/main stem is always nice and full. And, then, we get two lateral stems which are really nice; but, not as full. And, sometimes if that early crop is cut back, they'll send up another flush. Many times we'll use the main stem in straight bunches; and, the laterals in bouquets. Lisianthus in straight bunches usually sell themselves.
We grow our lisianthus 6" apart in beds 4x92; therefore, we have 736 plants per bed, and 3 bed per hightunnel. It's pretty intense planting; however, greenhouse space if valuable. Lisianthus is a fairly high dollar crop.
Our supplier is the large greenhouse grower here in Michigan. Shipping is included in the price of the plants; and, they have developed a superior packaging system. In fact, there systems are prototypes for other growers. Their customer service is excellent. If we have any problems, we have always been able to talk to the growers directly; and, it is solved immediately.
Flowerfarmer - thanks for the tips! Lizalily, I've grown the mixed Echo variety here, outside and it does need shade. I've tried interplanting it, but it doesn't work unless I'm keeping up on the weeding. I've also been told that when the plugs are small, you need to keep them well watered, or they take until August to grow, which is generally when they start blooming for me. I've never gotten the 30" stems outside either, but that could be a combination of factors, my soil, the sunlight, weeds, planted to late, etc. They are fairly frost tolerant too, which helps, but I'm not sure I'm going to grow them this year, unless I can put shade cloth over them and keep them in a weeded/moist spot! They are high value, but also the plugs aren't the cheapest either, if you can't get them to grow well.
I have ordered from Trish's grower and I agree with her assessment...however, a local greenhouse might also be able to grow them for you, but they need to start them now!
I love these flowers with Euphorbia Marginata and china asters...one of the longest lasting mixed arrangements!
Thanks for the advice, Flowerfarmer and Wendy! That is just what I needed to know. I Think I have just the spot for it! I am thinking of lime green and white and maybe a blue. Trish, what is the name of your greenhouse/supplier?
Plug production for specialty annual and perennial plants is to order through brokers; and, it appears scheduling is 8-10 weeks out. Harris, Germania, and Gloeckner's are brokers for C Raker and Sons in Michigan. They also represent Gro-n-Sell in Pennsylvania. The plug trays from C Raker and Sons are 288 (sold as 280). Grow-n-Sell has two options: 216/tray (sold as 210) and a Jumbo 128/tray (sold as 125). There isn't a minimum order requirement from C Raker and Sons. The mimumum tray requirement from Grow-n-Sell is three trays per box per ship date. Both companies charge a $19.75 processing fee for orders under $145.
The Echo Series does not have a green available; however, the Mariachi Series has a Lime Green. The Echo Series blooms late spring/early summer. The Mariachi Series blooms late summer as it is a Group 3. Some specialty cutflower growers have grown the Mariachi Series in the field.
If you are concerned about weeds, use a white mulch as opposed to black film. The reasoning behind the use of the white mulch is that it keeps the soil cooler. Also, the lisianthus stems have been found to be longer with the use this mulch. Taller plants such as sunflowers should be planted to the west of your rows of lisianthus in order to shade the plants from the afternoon sun.
I am so excited about growing these! Mine will be shaded by a hedgerow between my field and the road so it has been a problem for fining things that would take the shade there. I wonder how our different climate will affect them but I am going to find out. THis row has had tuips for the past two years but I intend to rotovate after this years bloom season and plant it to something else, unless any of the tulips there are really spectacular this 2nd year. As you say, space is valuable. Do you know what Lisianthus preferred soil temp is? WE might have trouble reaching it here on our seabound pile of glacial til and clay! Should I start mine in a grow tunnel or just set them out like I do with snapdragons? Are there any insect vectors of diseases that plague them? Do they have any special preference in soil minerals that I should prepare the soil with?
Thanks for the source list!
AH January, when all our dreams bloom weed and insect free!
Lisianthus doesn't tolerate any stress when in the seedling stage; and, the sad fact is that you won't realize they have been stressed for several months when, of course, it is too late. They like to be grown cool. So, planting them out with your snapdragons sounds like a fine idea. They won't tolerate temperatures above 75 degrees in the seedling stage either. So, for this reason we have our plug trays delivered to us in late February. The seedlings are t.i.n.y. We transplant them up to 806s for a couple of weeks just so they are a little bit bigger before we plant them in the hightunnel. And, we always have to keep an eye on the rootballs. We move them out just as the little roots are barely touching the bottom of the plug cell. Our hightunnels aren't heated; and, they're not double poly. The lisianthus do fine planted around the first week in March. Last year we had some Potomac snapdragons planted out in one of the hightunnels. The first or second week of May the night time temperatures dipped to 28 degrees. We had to fashion a mini-hoophouse of sorts over the snapdragons; otherwise, we would have lost all of them. The experts say that the Potomac snapdragons are about as tolerant of cold as eggplant; and, they're right about that for sure. So, anyway, yes grow your lisianthus cool. Some growers treat their lisianthus as perennials. They bloom sooner and taller for them in the second year.
Lisianthus is usually pest free; however, some growers have reported aphid infestation. We haven't noticed aphids on the lisianthus perhaps because they were so busy attacking the Oriental lilies this past season. We did notice dark fecal pellets on the lisianthus foliage; and, I thought this may have been from the grasshoppers that found their way into the hightunnels last year. But, according to an article in Growing for Market in September of 2005, the culprit is the plume moth, Stenoptilia zophodactyla Duponchel. This critter looks like a dragonfly. The adults lay their eggs in spring and fall, and the larvae hatch in 14 to 21 days so damage can be seen in early and late season. We didn't find damage on the crop -- other than the fecal pellets which is/was oh so very disgusting. The article says to spray with Bt when this discovery is made because the larvae will burrow into the flowers.
Lisianthus are susceptible to fusarium wilt; therefore, they shouldn't be planted in a previously grown bed. There is a broad spectrum fungicide Banrot for treatment. An organic method is Plant Shield. Some of the newer lisianthus cultivars have a relative resistance to fusarium. Also, botrytis infections can be found in dense plantings. Our plantings are dense, and we keep the air moving with inexpensive box fans in the hightunnels.
Lisianthus should be planted in well drained soil. Water should always drain away from the plants. And, finally, you asked about minerals. Calcium Nitrate is beneficial for stem length for both lisianthus and snapdragons. ...
I remember reading somewhere (an article by the Arnoskys, I think) that if you let those tiny plugs get rootbound, you might as well throw them out, as they won't perform. Trish, is that true? Am I remembering it right?
I've never grown them, since our normal weather patterns would stress them in several different ways. I just drool over the photos in the hobby catalogs.
I finally got my act together to get my first ever order off for plugs of any kind! My garden partner and I are splitting 3 trays of Lissies from Gro n sell. We are trying Echo blue, Echo mixed and Mariachi lime green to make our 3 trays per box. The shipping out here is an extra $50 so these guys better grow real well for us!
I found lissies at our grocery store floral department today and had to bring home pink and deep blue or purple ones...treating my self for my birthday, LOL. They were 3 nice stems for $5.
Oh, excellent. Assuming you had your order in time for the EOD. Shipping in this program begins April 9. All plugs in the program are grown to order with an 8 to 10 week lead time. The Echo Series is a Group 2 which means that it flowers late spring - early summer. The lime green in the Mariachi Series is a Group 3 which means this one flowers late summer. Good that you have ordered a tray of mixture so you will be able to ascertain exactly what works well for you there in your region.
As mentioned in an earlier post, we don't grow our lisianthus in the field. They are grown in a hightunnel for protection from the elements - rain, wind, sun -- sleet, snow, hail, tornado. You get the picture I am sure. We grow a series that is timed to flower on our schedule. This series is also less sensitive to rosetting.
WHAT AN utterly gorgeous picture of the blue lisianthus. I will have to keep that vision in front of me.
I agree - what a FANTASTIC picture! I love it!
It does make me want to reconsider growing them without a hoophouse! My climate is not as warm or wet as LizaLily's, and my Echo series never blooms until late August/Sept. and last year they got stressed and were too short...
Flowerfarmer...can these be planted early and take frost when they're little plugs? That may be my problem, is that I planted them in May! And, planted the wrong series...
Beautiful pictures once again!
I guess I wouldn't base my decision to not grow lisianthus again on the last season. Many, many crops were stressed. We had extremely high temperatures for two weeks during a very critical growing period.
When we bring those tiny lisianthus plugs in from the supplier, we usually bump them up and grow them on for a couple of weeks before planting out in the hightunnels. And, they can tolerate pretty cold temperatures. The hightunnels are unheated; and, it was 25 degrees some nights -- and that was the temperature inside the hightunnel. We had frost on the inside walls. The lisianthus was fine. It is actually considered a perennial in some zones; and, some growers have had success overwintering their lisianthus in unheated hightunnels.
So, planting the Echo Series out in May is probably too late since this series is considered Group 2 which is a late spring, early summer lisianthus. The Mariachi Series is actually bred for mid-late summer flowering. This may be a better choice for you to try. The catalog notes that this is the most requested variety by florists.
This is one of the last buckets of lisianthus to go to market the last weekend in October 2006.
Am I understanding that Lizzies like part sun? My trials 2 years ago were a failure, I had them in afternoon sun.I bought off of T's Flowers they arrived late and I thnk they were stressed, so starting my own from seed this year.
I can plant them in morning sun, part shade in the Pm, would that be better?
So, if I grow them in the field without a hoophouse, and assume an April planting date...Mariachi seems like the best, right? I need to reread my descriptions, but that's what I remember. Ah...to find space for a hoophouse!
And, I would love to see your bucket of flowers, but it didn't come up! Thanks for all your help!
If I was going to grow Matriachi in the field in zone 5/6, I would plant out nice size plugs (not teeny, tiny ones) late April/early May. This lisianthus is a mid to late summer blooming lisianthus.
As I mentioned previously, we grow series that is used for year round growing in hightunnels. We grow a variety of colors in this series which are timed to bloom late spring, early summer, mid summer, late summer. Other than the fact that the different colors have different bloom times, the idea of having an entire 20 x 96 hightunnel full of blooming lisianthus is a bit overwhelming however beautiful that image may appear. And, if you've ever harvested an entire hightunnel of blooming lisianthus, you can well understand how much some of us growers appreciate these newer varieties with a timing schedule that is easier to control from the growers prospective.
As you can see, the white is a late summer crop of lisianthus which blooms when the field dahlias are producing. The blue was a Group 2-3. We had cut it back, and got a few more shoots six weeks later. As you can probably tell, the second cuttings are never as full as the first.
Thanks for all the great info on growing these beautiful cuts. So if I understand correctly, these need to grow cool while in the seedling stage, but can be planted in the field, and handle heat in the summer? As for high tunnels, isn't that too much heat, or is shade cloth needed? I have a greenhouse to start these myself, and am going to try it this year but have only purchased a small amount of seed for my trials. We are SO cold here right now, and have been for the last 3 weeks that I can't even think of starting anything in a unheated GH. It was 0 degrees this morning with a 30mph wind blowing. Not very pleasant! I am building a hot bed for starting seedlings, so I'll have bottom heat. What would be the correct time to start these? Probably now, right? If grown in a hot bed, does anyone know how long they could be in there before needing to be put in cell packs, or plug trays? I have Cinderella pink. Thanks,
I too thank you Trish for the wonderful info on Lissies. I'm having a go at growing them for the first time this year. They arrive Friday. You mention bumping them up to 806's. Could I get away with bumping em up to round 50 cell plug trays? Also what growing /plug mix do you use to put them into?
P.S. Trish - your photos are fantastic, ever thought about doing it professionally.
Wendy, I'm growing Echo Blue in the field. I'm going to have two separate areas, one in heavier loamy moist soil which will get afternoon shade from a large barn and the other in amended sand down in the pasture which is open to everything. I shall rig up hoops with a 60% shade cloth and cover them when necessary. I did this with Karma's last year and it worked great. Who ever would have thunk you can grow Dahlias beautifully in south Texas. Still haven't gotten around to erecting my 28x96, so if I ever get it up this year, I'll try lissies in it in 2008.
Thanks again ladies for all your wonderful input.
Billabong Fresh Flower Farm
You asked: As for high tunnels, isn't that too much heat, or is shade cloth needed? No, actually, lisianthus will be the best you have ever grown if you grow them in the hightunnel in summer. We are cold as well -- to the point that I don't want to think about the blizzard of this past weekend. At least the sun has been shining for the past two days. Hope springs eternal!
Our seedlings are grown on in a heated greenhouse. When they reach a sufficient size, they are planted out in an unheated high tunnel. They do fine from that point on in unheated conditions. With your Cinderella pink lisianthus which has a 22-26 week sow to bloom time, I would guess the best time to sow would be yesterday. That's 6 months!!! Cinderella is a Group 2 which means it has a scheduled blooming time early to mid-summer.
This is a tray of 288s and shows the size of lisianthus when ordered in as 280s. This photo is not how you actually want your lisianthus to look when you open your shipment from the grower. These lisianthus were doused with a growth hormone before shipment. As evidenced in the photo, the tips were severly burned. I'm not going to mention the grower. We were compensated for the unusable lisianthus plugs which amounted to approximately half of them. We planted the salvaged plugs and they recovered from their near death experience. I think we salvaged 4 or 5 trays of white lisianthus out of 8. They were the white lisianthus featured in some of my photos. The other color lisianthus in the order were just fine. As growers, we understand these things happen. As you can also see from the photo, some cells are empty. That is one reason that 288s are sold as 280s. So, if there are up to 8 empty cells, the flats are good to go from the growers perspective.
Your 50 cell plug trays are most likely 2.33" deep which is good for bumping em up. And, here's a photo of healthy, perky little lisianthus which had been growing on for a couple of weeks. Don't tell Ednie's that I used some of their tags in place our blank tags that we either ran out of or misplaced.
We use LC1 Sunshine Mix for bumping up all our seedlings. It is purchased by the skid/pallet.
See -- the white lisianthus produced fine. It actually grew taller than all the other lisianthus in the hightunnel.
Thank you for the compliment Kim; however, I am so not very professional in the photo department. It's the flowers. They are just so photogenic!!
Trish -- THANKS! This has been a very helpful thread!
I'll give the Mariachi a try! As well as bumping them up when I get them...before planting out. I can do that!
Now...do you direct seed your euphorbia? Or start it and transplant? Just curious...since that works so well with the lisianthus!
There is so much to learn!
Thanks again, Wendy
Mum's the word!
Glad the 50's will work as I have a ton of them. I use Sunshine's #3 Germ mix but luckily I bought a couple of the Metro Mix 200 to try it out, so I guess I'll use it. I really wanted to try Premier's Pro-Mix PGX but my wholesaler didn't have it on hand. Your welcome but you under sell yourself as a photographer. Thanks again for the info
Cheers - Kim
We do start the euphorbia in the greenhouse Wendy. And, we use deep cell trays because of the tap root.
I like the Metro Mixes as well, Kim. However, the prices have just gone through the roof on some of those.
Lizalily-how did your lisianthus plugs work out? I'm also located in wet Western Washington, but have sandy, low nutrient soil, formerly a cow pasture. How about the rest of you trying this cut flower for the first time? Any add'l follow-up, advice or comments from the pros? Thanks everyone.
We grew ABC green, yellow, ivory, blue and blue rim. And, sometimes the difference in the green, yellow and ivory was so subtle that it was hard to tell. However, we loved how the combination created different painterly shading.
Trish - what great pictures...as always! Mine never come out that well! I don't have the eye for photography! I did have better luck with lisianthus this year. I took your suggestions and potted up the plugs into 2" pots before I planted them out. It seemed to help. I planted them in the raised beds where the tulips are and covered them with shade cloth. They grew really tall...and I goofed and didn't have support netting...so another lesson learned. I loved the ivory echo and purple and purple white mariachi. The lime didn't do as well...but we had a hard frost on 10/3...so didn't get to experiement with them in a bouquet like yours!
Do you also start your "kiss me over the garden gate?" I would like to grow that too, but the one time I tried it didn't do well...but need to try again.
Not to worry. We've goofed with the support netting so many times we can't remember. We didn't have it on the white and pink one year. They grew really tall. What a mess as they toppled all over one another, and then twisted as they tried reaching for the sun. You would think we'd learn, but apparently we like living on the edge.
The lime green ABC is in the top photo at the top on the left just as the kiss me over the garden gate curves out; and, then the bud just starting to open on the opposite right. Very subtle green. We thought it was a little faded because of the extremely high temperatures we had for days on end last summer. We thought we were living in Texas. The nights wouldn't cool down as they would in a normal season.
Yes, we always start our kiss me over the garden gate early. We stratified it by tossing it in the freezer for a couple of weeks. When we took it out, we scarified it by rubbing it over fine sandpaper. And, those little seedling once they finally decide to germinate (seemed like about a month) they will sit there just these tiny little things. And, we think, "Should I just toss these out?" And, finally, we just plant them out. They were planting way down the field. And, I don't think they ever got water after the first few days after planting them out. They would have gotten watered after that by the rain -- only we didn't get any after our torrential spring. It was a drought. So, these things are extremely drought tolerant. However, because it was so dry, some bug really loved munching on the leaves. We'd pretty much strip those off. Oh, and they do need to be hydrated. They will wilt. Because they are very graceful, we always had market customers batting at them asking, "What's this?" I'd say try growing them again. They give you height, and as I mentioned they are very graceful.
My first try at Echo was pretty much a failure. bumped em up, grew beautifully, put them in the field in early March and it rained and rained and rained. 80% of em got fungal problems. Yanked em out. Covered the rest with a temp pvc and plastic hoop and they were gorgeous. Trying Echo again and Mariachi this year.
Intend to soak plugs in banrot this year and grow em in my new 28' x 96' greenhouse.
Cheers - Kim
Totally lisianthus bouquet:
Oh, Hi! I see this forum has come back to life...neat! I have been over at the amaryllis/hippeastrum forum, working on my winter cuts of amaryllis.
THe lisianthus experiment was not a very good experience last year. Many died in the ground..it seemd like every week the count went lower. THe plants never grew as tall as I had set the grow netting I bought just for them. I think I started it at 1 foot. We did harvest a bucket or two of the survivers and I really liked them to work with, but there is a steep learning curve that needs to happen. THe plants turned woody and dried out, as though they could no longer take up water and nutrients. We had a summer that was grey and humid and only a few days were hot and sunny but they got real hot real fast and then cooled off again. I had the lissies in two different places in the garden but with similar results. I have just ordered seeds and think I might try starting them myself. Oh yes, we were very careful not to let them get root bound or dry out when small. Maybe they had some insect or fungus affecting them but we could not tell what it was.
I am going in for a new knee in 2 weeks, so will be confined to sitting for a while...hope I get a lot of seeds started, in the next month or so, but first have to move some amaryllis from under my lights. I am hoping to enjoy the gardening bit much more after the knee heals, but that leaves the other one to replace after frost. It got so my knee caps locked up evertime I bent over in the garden last yea, and has been years since i COuld kneel down. I asked my surgeon about kneeling with artificial knees and he looked me in the eye and said, "MY patients kneel just fine!" So Feb 4th is the beginning of my personal reclamation.
FLowerfarmer, I Could say I Am sorry you are fighting cancer, but will say instead I am glad you are FIGHTING cancer, and hope you win this one! And through it all the flowers sustain us!
I'm bumping this older post to the top because I'm going to try starting lisianthus from seed for the first time this month and others are probably doing the same right now too.
Here's a link to a helpful publication on growing lisianthus published by the Maryland Cooperative Extension.
Here is a link that might be useful: Production of Lisianthus as a Cutflower
I started some pelletted Lissi seed this year for the ASCFG Trials. Wow, they are time consuming. They started germinating at about 2 weeks and some still are now, 4 weeks later. Have them on a heat mat. I have to check them twice a day to keep them moist which is done with a spray bottle to make sure I don't knock the seed or itsy bitsy seedlings around. they are the tiniest seedling I have ever seen and definitely do not grow fast. I don't think I'll do this again out of choice. After what I've been thru looking after them, I won't have a problem dropping $65 - $70 per 288 tray. It'll be worth every penny and I'll just have to plant them. Good Luck
Cheers - Kim - BFFF
Thanks for the input Kim. I guess it will be a learning experience for me. I'm starting 100 seeds of Cinderella Mix right now. Are you able to treat yours as perennials there in Texas?
You and me both.
Perennials - yes I presume so but I haven't tried that yet. Normally by the end of the season the plants (field grown) get some fungal infection on their leaves so out they come.
May leave some in g/hse this year and see what happens.
Need a good laugh? Check out the first sentence of the last paragraph of the Park Seed Co. web page advertisement for Arena Red Lisianthus. And I quote:
Lisianthus is such a long-lasting, dramatic cutflower that you might expect it to be difficult to grow from seed, but it is quite simple."
WHAT'S UP WITH THAT!?
Here is a link that might be useful: Lisianthus
Well I fell for it. I am more of a novice to gardening than most of you and had never even heard of Lisianthus, but I bought some Cinderella yellow seed from Parks. They look beautiful and "they are easy to grow". The seed is germinating now, which, which having read up on it, I realize is much much too late. At least I only bought one pack of seed. I dont know if I should even try finding a space in my garden for them, or if I just just toss them.
Yes, Mandolls, you will have a hard time getting them to bloom before frost so far north. Why not try growing some in pots and moving them inside for the winter? They are actually a tender perennial so perhaps you could carry the young plants over until spring of 2012 and get an early start for that season. Or you may even get them to bloom indoors in the fall if they have enough light.
Great idea Steve - thanks. I have a lot of plants that I manage to bring inside and winter over, Lantanas, Fuschia, lots of varieties of Begonias etc.
Any advice for growing them in pots? Can they be planted as multiples in larger pots? or do they need to go into individual smaller pots?
I'd probably bunch several (3 or 4) in a 12 inch pot. The link below also has some technical info on pot culture of Lisianthus.
Here is a link that might be useful: Potted Lisianthus
Thanks Steve - I have bookmarked the page and read it carefully when the time comes.
Well, technically, they are "easy to grow" lol - they're just really, really, REALLY slow!
I also had some in pots. I had about 8 in 18-inch pots, and they did well and bloomed one warm fall.
Two winters ago, I brought some in to over winter, and I really kind of crammed them in - 3 in an 8-inch pot, maybe. Bu they survived and I planted them out and had a nice early bloom.
Well, mine sprouted yesterday, so......... so far "they are easy to grow". They sure are tiny little things! I will look forward to seeing them bloom next year. I'll just think about them like the fruit trees I ordered.
WIll they survive and re-bloom for multiple years if I just treat them like begonias, lantana, fuschia, and geraniums that I haul inside every year? It doesn't seem like anyone on this thread actually grows them as perennials.
Well I went ahead and planted out my little Lisianthus 'Cinderella' plants yesterday. They are still quite small but they seem healthy. I planted 65 seedlings and there are still a few more that are too small to transplant. I also have two flats (100 seeds) of Arena red from seeds that arrived a month late (from Geo Seeds) so unfortunately they are lagging behind. :( We're expecting some wet weather in the near future so I wanted to get them in the ground. I've got screens over them to keep marauding birds form pecking at them while they are still so small.
Here's a little update on my lisianthus-from-seed project. My Cinderella plants are now well established in the ground. They are around 6 inches tall and starting to develop side branches. The Arena reds are only about 1 inch tall because they got such a late start but they seem like they are growing ok so maybe they will make something of themselves eventually. Does anyone else have anything to report on growing Lisianthus from seed this season?
Mine didn't work out. They were living outside but not growing, so I scrapped them and decided to put something else in the space. I will try again next year.
Here's another update. My Lisianthus Cinderella mix which I started from seed in mid February are now blooming away quite nicely! Stem lengths are around 26-30 inches and I have white, purple, pink and very pale yellow colors.
Hurray, I did it! :)
They look great Steve!
Thanks! I have a plot of Arena Red too that is coming along a little later than the Cinderella. I received the seeds a month late because they were out of stock. But it looks like they will bloom anyway. They will be a little smaller plants though due to their late start.
i tried to growing lisi from seeds and they rosetted. will try it again this winter. going to order plugs too. its dicey, but i'm going to grow them outdoors. no hoop house/greenhouse yet.