Went citrus pricing today....

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8aNovember 27, 2010


It's raining like crazy up here, and I was feeling a bit of cabin-fever....so I went out citrusing.

Between the rain and the holiday deals at the malls, I pretty much had the whole nursery to myself.

No busy-body staff trying to help me buy something, either....

I'm starting to consider one of these variegated lemons, maybe a Kaffir or Rangpur lime, too.

Almost all the varieties that Four Winds has to offer can be found here for ~ $30.

Anyhow, I thought you might enjoy these shots.


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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

THOSE ARE ALL CITURS?! GAWD! i wish i lived in california. the variagated sounds nice, especially for 30$
how old are they

    Bookmark   November 27, 2010 at 6:01PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

In the second pic, on the lower left, there are some Rhododendron...otherwise, yeah, all citrus ;)

I think the 5-gallon plants are between 3 - 5 year's old.

There are much larger trees, too, that cost a bit more.

California definitely has a few good things to offer.


    Bookmark   November 27, 2010 at 6:14PM
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Josh!!! Enjoy these shots?????

I am darn right jealous and a bit envious here! What the hay? Everything in California is better than here..
I would take home one of everything there and then ask them to build me a greenhouse just like that...Sheesh..It is a good thing I know not of that place or live close by..
If I did, I would spend my days there and my money!


Thanks Josh


    Bookmark   November 27, 2010 at 9:09PM
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Wow! That looks like citrus heaven. What nursery is this?


    Bookmark   November 27, 2010 at 9:49PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Brett, this nursery is called Eisley's.
They have acres and acres of propagation houses surrounding the sales area proper.
I'll link to their web-page below.

Mike, I was hoping you'd see these! ;)
If you lived out here, I'd bet you'd get a job there...or maybe you'd just start volunteering....
I knew you'd love it. Wait until you see the Houseplant pics that I took.

They also have free popcorn for folks to munch on while browsing the store.


Here is a link that might be useful: Eisley's in Auburn

    Bookmark   November 27, 2010 at 11:14PM
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musaboru(Inland Calif.)

Even in California, it can take a while before you find the right place that has all the interesting varieties of citrus. Yes, it's true that our Walmart have citrus trees for $20 for a 5 gallon. But usually, it's the typical navel, valencia or mandarin, meyer lemon, etc.

But for someone interested in rarer varieties like Buddha's Hand, Bergamot, Tarocco, and such you will have to try harder unless you live to a place that should happen to carry those. It took me about 5 different big box home improvement stores before I found Tarocco and and a Kieffer lime. Not all stores will order the rarer varieties.

Yes, the area I'm at now is only like 5 miles away from UCR. I pass by those citrus groves often. Isn't that ironic?

    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 4:22AM
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GO AND GRAB THAT VARIEGATED LEAFED PLANT WITH THE FRUIT BEFORE IT'S GONE!!!! The first picture down the one to the right!! GO GET IT before it's gone will ya...Look at all that fruit and on a tree that small..It would be mine if I lived there..It is the one that caught my eye..lol

Now I am off to the nursery before I have to go again...


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 1:20PM
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newgen(9 Central California)

Those are beautiful plants! I got a Buddha's Hand at Home Depot a few months back. So what did you end up taking home?

    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 1:47PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Honestly....all I took home was a bag of Quartz grit... ;)

Mike, that variegated plant caught my eye, too....but don't worry, they had at least three of those plants.
And they always order more. These are all standard stock items.
Tarocco is the only Blood Orange I couldn't locate.

There were some Buddha's Hand with fruit rotting on the tree, while new fruit is forming.


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 2:37PM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Hey Josh, very nice pictures of that nursery! Reminds me a little bit of FL. I guess I have a tendency to take Citrus for granted, living in a state where they are abundant. I know its hard for those that want to grow them and are only able to buy plants on line...it would be so much nicer to pick out your own tree. Makes it difficult too since we still can't ship citrus to other states.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 2:52PM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Josh, I wanted to post pictures of my 3 citrus trees...about 90% of my neighbors have citrus trees in their yards so I opted to plant some Mango trees along with only 3 citrus, all are starting to ripen up now.

Dwarf Meyer lemon


Nagami Kumquat

    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 3:36PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, Nancy!
The Calamondin and Nagami are especially attractive...and fruit-laden!

My brother has a big Meyer in his yard, totally covered in lemons right now.
Thanks for posting!

I went by the nursery again today, but I really didn't like the shape of the trees,
and I don't feel like undertaking a re-potting/pruning project right now.


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 6:03PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

I took these pics of my brother's lemon tree on Thanksgiving. I got a few lemons, as well.
About a month and a half ago, the landlord hacked this tree back down to size - it was over 9 feet...


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 6:20PM
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puglvr1(9b central FL)

Thanks Josh, those little Calamondins are great on hot and iced tea! A few more weeks for the Kumquats. Will have to make some Kumquat preserves...I can only eat so many of them fresh.

Great pictures of your Brother's lemon tree and it sure is loaded with fruits! Awesome!

I hear you not wanting to undertake a plant project right now...Spring will be here before you know it, I'm sure there's a Citrus out there with your name on it just waiting for you :o)


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 8:32PM
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Showoff. And then you had to top it off with free pop corn.

Right now my oldest and favorite citrus, 'Bearss' lime Is struggling. I transplanted it this summer because it had been in that soil several years and the leaves were cupping, consistently although not drastically. New soil mix was about 1/3 fafard, 1/3 perlite and 1/3 turface (I could not find the granite). About 2 months later, early fall, the leaves were in the same state. Soooo thinking that the mix was too water retentive, I decided to transplant again in order to add small pine bark. Lots of it. In transplanting, the small healthy white roots (4-5") that were starting to colonize the new mix ripped off no matter how careful I was. The leaves are still cupping, the ones that remain, that is. I'm not really asking for help. I know that the lime can't tolerate another transplant especially since it's indoors in less than ideal conditions. I know that I have to be very careful with watering. Citrus are sensitive to over wet soil and yet since all the roots are in the upper part of the pot, I have to water enough to keep this area moist. Tapla has made suggestions on where to find it since but I haven't been able to follow up yet but hope to before spring when I will/may try his gritty mix on a different citrus. This one has had as much of a workout as it can stand for awhile. I wrote this mostly because forum members like to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


    Bookmark   November 28, 2010 at 10:55PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

It was "caramel" pop-corn this weekend, too ;)


    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 12:45AM
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That cracked me up.


    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 1:20AM
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hey guys I was wondering if anyone is willing to send some cuttings to Canada, I would love to try and grow them here in pots. I would pay the shipping of course

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 7:42AM
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mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

Great pics. Its probably a good thing our nursery's dont have that kind of stock or I would be in big trouble, LOL.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 9:33AM
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Um, watch out, those little gremlins might just shop in your back yard while you are sleeping for some nice trees or fruit to take home..lol.
Your trees are just ravishing Nancy...I love them all as always..Wow..Do you pick them for breakfast for some fresh juice? Can we join you?:-)

Josh: POPCORN to boot? lol..Living in California is much better than here I tell you...I still have my eye on that variegated..This just goes to show us how fuitful and great they can look in containers if grown in a greenhouse..lol..
If we can get any of ours to look as nice as those in our homes, and this far up north, we are talking miracles and success!

Have a great day everyone..



    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 12:20PM
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are you thinking of trying to root citrus cuttings? Can it be done?

    Bookmark   December 1, 2010 at 10:44PM
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I am hoping I can start one from a cutting, I am even willing to cut down my 20 year old lemon tree that I grew from a seed and use that for root stock. If anyone here knows a good method of starting a tree or has some cuttings they would like to send me, I will pay for shipping. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2010 at 6:09PM
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Andrew Scott

WOw Josh!
I have to agree with Mike. I was wanting that tree myself! Too bad we didn't have access to them. I have always wanted one of those variegated lemon trees. *sigh* Don't know if I will ever get one but man, your LUCKY!
Keep us informed when you do decide!

BTW...I had close to 100 lemons on my Meyer. I still have around 30 on the tree now!

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 12:35AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, Andrew, it's great to see you!
Those variegated Calamondins are too tall for my taste, and pruning them would mean removing
that great foliage and those striking fruits. If I can find a shorter specimen, with nice
structure, I might just buy it! In the Spring, of course....


    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 10:33AM
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Beautiful pics. And much appreciated. Nurseries around here are low on citrus now but they will be coming in soon after the 1st.

It seems as if your lemon has rust mites.

Not legal to send cuttings out of here but if you can get some here is the way I start lemons and limes;
1. Get the cutting from an actively growing shoot.
...It will have necessary hormones for leafing out.
2. Start the cutting in a brite area but not direct sunlight. Filtered shade is alright.
3. Use round wood, and leave one leaf on the stem.
4. Recut the rooting end, dip in liquid rooting hormone and stick in the ground or pot about 2+1/2 in., 6-7 cm.
5. Cut the bottom from a plastic 2L Coke bottle and place over the cutting.
6. Do not lift bottle until 3 or 4 new leaves grow.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 12:45AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Thanks, Tantanman!

It just keeps raining here.....
time to go citrusing again - my favorite kind of window-shopping ;)

Thankfully, I've settled my mind on one of my next purchases:
a Meyer Lemon to go in-ground next Spring; but that leaves another citrus for a container.
I'm struggling - do I want a unique lemon, or do I want a lime to flavor my gin? ;)


    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 1:34AM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

get the lime, but dont get a key or bearss, get something more exotic

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 1:56AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

I'm thinking Rangpur lime....after my brother poured a Rangpur Gin for me... ;)

I have a Blood Orange for Sangria, and I want a Lime to mix with Gin....
Maybe I can use the Meyer Lemon for an improved Lemon Drop...! ;)

I'm not even a drinker, either. But I do love to entertain.


    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 2:22AM
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Andrew_enthusiast(7b Central Arkansas)

ive never had tasted rangpur before, but i heard that they are good

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 2:36AM
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Josh, I can almost smell the moist, humus-y atmosphere inside those greenhouses... it's one of my favorite smells! I, too, occasionally frequent the local greenhouse/nursery just to revive my senses during the more inclement weather periods. Strolling the aisles, breathing in the humid scent of contained Mother Nature, seeing and touching all that green... ah! What could be more healing to the gardener's spirit during the winter months?

Wonderful shots... thanks! :-)

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 9:09AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

My pleasure, Jodi!
Even when the wind is blowing and the rain falling, a few drops on the head
is the worst that happens. The smell is great!

And now that I have a couple Gift Certificates burning a hole in my pocket,
my window-shopping is more earnest than ever! ;)


    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 12:14PM
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Go with the lime to flavor your "gin"!:-)))

Call_me, as much as you say not to get a Bears, let me tell you! All you have to do is brush up against this plant the the citrus smell just fills the air. Your right though, not much to look at..lol A tough plant though.

Hello to everyone else and welcome the new Andrew.


I have to tell you one of my favorites for looks without the flowers to keep you occupied. The "variegated lemon meyer"! Mine is so pretty, even in the darkest dispears of winter..

I am totally happier you have decided to visit this wonderful forum. Jodik. I am now going to get you a small suprise since your interest in citrus has been peaked. I am just happy to see you here. I hope your back is ok after all that snow. I was stuck for hours in a storm last night and needed a tow. I just got to work after digging out since 5am. Sore and tired.
I also had to take out over 26 plants out of the popup house, and then replaced them all this am. I am just tired but very energized to see my dear friends here!

Josh: Thank you for starting this bautiful thread and for inviting all these good people to share.

Have a great day all.

Happy New Year, oh wait, a few more days to go.


    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 1:11PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Mike, it's good to have you back...sore and cold from digging, yes, but alive! Ha!

It's been a full month since I last posted nursery pics, and I had the opportunity again today.
I figured some of you might like to browse and window-shop along with me.

The variegated pink lemon might be calling my name....


    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 5:59PM
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Man I wish I could go with you! I wish so bad! We never have anything like that here! I just might be going to a nursery that is going to shut their heat off due to rising cost's and they are going to let their trees all freeze to death! Some are mature with lots of fruit Josh. Some too large to put in my car. I was just staring at them today in disbelief. I can't believe their life will be cut short because of this. Very sad. If I had the room, I would bring them all home:(

Go for the "variegated pink lemon" Josh. Please. It will amaze you with color, growth, good flowers and, possibly pink lemonade?

If I was shopping with you, I would talk you into it.

What a beautiful bunch of pictures. Makes you want a greenhouse, does it not? Makes you want to work there too to learn the secret of their success with such healthy looking trees. Oh, I think many of us already know that part now though, and we do not even need the advantage of a greenhouse.


    Bookmark   January 1, 2011 at 10:31PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

Mike: i feel for that nusery that has to shut its heat off.
Anyone who loves plants enough to work at a nursery has got to be depressed to let those trees die.
Josh: i desire for any kind of varigated citrus, but preferably the pink eureka. I wouldnt try to talk you into buying it, i would beg you to

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 7:28PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

So we're thinking the pink lemon?
Those variegated leaves, and the compact shape of the trees...yeah, I'm heavily leaning that way.
I figure I can get a lime any old time, but those lemons are gonna be popular if I don't get one
before other buyers start to notice them.

Thank you, Mike and Andrew, for helping me through this difficult decision ;)


    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 12:25AM
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Yes Josh!

When your trees are just green, out of fruit and out of flowers, that one will add so much color to them all.
They also smell great and flower remarkably well! As many flowers and as frequent as the lemon meyer.

Please let us know what you get, or take us with you that day..


    Bookmark   January 3, 2011 at 9:28AM
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I am so sad. I've been looking at all the local nurseries for a Rangpur Lime and there you have one right for sale with the other plants. Jealous! I need to keep searching, I guess. Yesterday I bought and planted a Bearss Lime and a Fuyu Persimmon.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 11:10AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, NK!
You'll find one. If you have to, maybe your favorite nursery could have
one shipped from Four Winds Growers.

The Rangpur limes are covered in fruit...and most of it's just going to waste!
I wish I could buy citrus right now, but I don't have enough room to treat the properly.


    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 5:25PM
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Pug, your potted citrus is absolutely gorgeous! All the fruit! And their size..Beautiful.

Josh, wish I could drive to CA, and stop at your gh. lol. We have nothing similar in IL.

I'm still waiting Fl's ban to end. I stopped at Briteleaf's site..her trees are still prices 20-25. Wonder what'd detaining the government?? HA!! lol..Toni

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 4:11PM
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jojosplants(9/ Tucson, Az.)

Citrus is showing up at the big box stores now.

So next week I'm heading to a local nursery. 5 acres to browse!
Cant wait!

Josh, i'm going to tell hubby you made me want more tree's. ;-)


    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 4:27PM
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stropharia(8b louisiana)

Wow, and I thought I'd hit the jackpot when I found my Meyer & Moro. You're making me want to go back and get a variegated pink lemon too! And maybe a satsuma...

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 5:14PM
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Toni: Are you kidding? Pug's trees, everyone of them are always perfect, that is until the stupid frigid weather hurts them in which I feel so bad!
You should post one of yours too.

Jojo: I thought I had an influence on you getting citrus too? I remember telling you to get some way back when I first met you..I hope you do. You should consider an Oro Blanco tree if you are looking for a durable,very big sweet flower, and juicy seedless fruit without seeds that taste's like half orange with a hint of grapefruit. Just awsome. I can't wait to see what you get.

Stropharia: Go for it. You will not be disappointed and since you have now learned all about the much more grittier mixes that these trees thrive in, you are going to have a heck of alot more fun and success!
By the way, I am glad you decide to come here:-)

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 5:24PM
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Mike, two nights ago, GA got hit. Lot's of snow. I don't know how much accumulated, but GA?? What's going on?
Last night, 'watching weather again,' they showed a map of USA..All but Fl displayed white states.

Mike, it was very nice of you talkling Jojo into investing in citrus.

Jojo, didn't know you too had citrus. lol. Do you grow in the ground, containers or both?

Stropharia...I see you're in LA. The forecasters mentioned NO's abnormally cold temps. How are these freezes affecting plants? Palms, etc.
Get the variegated lemon. Foliage is beautiful, and considering your climate, leaf colors will be vivid Green, white and pink. More sun and humidity, pink deepens. Toni

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 8:29PM
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stropharia(8b louisiana)

Thanks Mike, I'm glad I found this place!
I think I will get the variegated lemon. But each new tree is another big thing that I have to fit inside the moving truck this fall. Ohhhh, but the ones at the nursery were budding! I'm torn, obviously...

Toni, the weather is definitely odd for us. I'm in the BR area, and tonight's the third of four-in-a-row freezes (I think it got down to 21F last night!) Even a touch of frost kills off most of the palm leaves, so I wouldn't be surprised if the whole plants were dying in this weather. I had a couple peppers that had struggled through the winter (still putting out fruit slowly!), but they've been basically finished now. Broccoli wilts overnight, perks up with the sun. Onions don't care at all.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 10:05PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

ARGH i want a variegated lemon. grr... i have no citrus nursesries in AK... our greenhouses barely have anything, some reeds, maybe a two year old willow for 300$ and a few japanese maples for 200-400$$ horribly expensive, and nothing i want............i need to move to cali

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 11:41PM
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Strophera. The weather is strange lately. Even for IL. We've had very little, but snow showers in the beginning of June.
Until 6-7 yrs ago, planting season was Apr 15th. It's changed to May 15th.
I'm afraid setting most tropicals/succulents outside in May..some would go out as early as April.

When you hear warm climate states are getting freezing and snow...it's a little frightening.

It's sad about the palms. Especially older specimens.
Well, guess if we had to depend on food gardening, onion sandwiches would do..NOT. lol. When I was pregnant w/my son, I ate raw onion on a sandwich. Something people do w/o thinking twice..The thought now turns my stomach. Fried onions are fine.

It's terrible about citrus too. When Fl has a freeze, it's announced on the news, some stores here in IL, raise the price of OJ, etc increases you wouldn't believe..the stores take advantage, hike up profit over profit.
Other stores keep juice/citrus the same cost, or a dime increase.

Wizfire, have you ever ordered online? Toni

    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 1:59AM
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God..The thought just occured to me that Pug's tree must of gone through some tough times with that frigid cold they had and are still getting for days!
I hope that tree is ok along with her Mango trees, my favorite.
Nancy,our thoughts are with you.

Toni: How much snow did you get? It will be a long time before we see any earth. At least all by outdoor plants are protected from all the frigid dehydrating air.
ya, I am begining to think that Josh and I are having a bad influence on our friend and you certainly have had a bad influence on me! I am begining to think I might be outpacing you in the amount of plant department.lol

Joj: How many plants have you aquired in the past year?lol
I know that ever since you learned of a mix that is almost impossible to kill in, your confidence had increased tenfold along with the amount of plants! Now if we can just get you to increase your citrus too. lol It is fun seeing you here! Maybe this forum will be a bit more lively now.

Stropharia: You are welcome. I see your enthusiam and I love it! You remind me of myself when I finally reached the point to where I was able to keep anything alive and healthy past a year. Now I can't stop aquiring the most unusual and stubborn plants to grow, since they sometimes can be topics for conversation at my home and work. People are amazed that we can keep citrus fruiting, alive, flowering, and healthy despite our conditions.
I guess I love a challenge when I have the right tools to work with.
Now my next endeavor are FIG trees, already have two.
I am going to a nursery very soon to get more, and more, and more..lol I hope your weather gets warm soon. Toni's sentiments I share, about your weather. Horrible.

Andrew: I will keep you in mind when my nursery starts selling the variegated trees again...They had so many last spring and just the right size..

Cheers everyone

    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 8:13AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Ah, California, there's no place I'd rather be...!
From the pounding grey Pacific to the groves of ancient redwood trees.
California, to me, is that fabled land of gold, El Dorado.

The only problem with California is, well, certain Californians.
Not only are we constantly invaded by Illegals, but we are sold out by politicians
facilitating that invasion and calculating the victimization of citizens
through outrageous taxes, environmental legislature, and insane gun control.
But I digress.....

Everyone should see California before they die.
They should breathe our mountain air, and taste our endless blue sky;
feel the mist of the Pacific, and hike through the Sierra Nevada, the Range of Light.
Here is a place of painful beauty.


    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 10:26AM
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And walk amoung the beautiful moss landscaping at the back of your yard, which by the way I would love to see another picture of that Josh at your permission, and hit the Manderine festival to buy up some of that delicious Manderine Jam!! ummmm!


    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 1:29PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

yes, definitly mike...i have heard many things about this manderin festival. is it in cali??
Josh: i think we would all love to see a picture NOO PRESSURE (alright a little bit :) )
and yes, i will come to cali.... i very much want to see the redwoods... maybe get a cutting of them too, try to grow that ^.^ (wait, is that illegeal?!) (i might still do it)

Toni- all my citrus have been ordered online, though i wish i didnt have to, they usually get here partially sqaushed, though still great and green.


    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 6:48PM
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jojosplants(9/ Tucson, Az.)

Hi Everyone!
Toni~ Yes I have citrus. ;-) My yard is a little of everything. I have a large in ground garden, and many many containers.
only my plum tree is in ground , the other 8 tree's in containers.

A huge succulent collection.. Which, sorry Mike, citrus will never out do my love for cactus and succulents. ;-)

and a handful of house plants.

Mike~ I haven't gotten any more plants this past year, than the years before.
Just this past year with the help of a handful here, i've managed to keep them alive! :-)

As far as who influenced what..
Well, I always had a love for citrus, just you influenced my interest in containers, and some hope of keeping them alive. lol..

And Josh...
Well he shows all these great pics like the one here of the nursery, and makes me want to run out and shop.. so there's the influence he has.. ;-)
Plus his beautiful plants always make me want more. :-)
HI Josh!

Our lows average around 38 in the winter. But I have seen it drop as low as 19.
I don't really worry about it, I just cover everyone and hope for the best. It warms up pretty quick.
I picked up some Christmas lights on clearance this year to use next.


    Bookmark   January 14, 2011 at 8:47PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

just listening to all of this... i had an idea...in a little while, when it gets warmer, can i persuade any of you to give me small jade plants or cuttings??? email me at
andrewofthelemon@gmail.com if you wanna work this out

    Bookmark   January 15, 2011 at 5:21PM
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A long time friend e-mailed me last week asking for tan-tangelo budwood from my Nova and her sister F-6-9-10, both Clementine x Orlando hybrids. I let him know the Nova was in sad shape from Hurricane Ike then the worst drought since the 50's followed by extended freeze last winter in the teens and twenties. Then it got over watered by several back to back tropical storms last summer. It took me a half hour to find two sticks on Nova and one was very marginal for use in a cleft graft. I added Monreal Clementine wood for good measure. All three of these are exceedingly difficult to buy in Texas.

We agreed to meet at U. of Houston where the large organic gardening group, Urban Harvest, was holding their annual fruit tree sale this morning.

After meeting we decided to take a look at some of the offerings. We entered the sale area and came right into the pavilion of mandarin trees. Well you could have knocked me down with a feather because there in the third row of trees were about twenty Novas! Previously, I had only seen one for sale in my entire life.

I bought one and while making the excuse, "it could go in my son's garden", my friend Marc got one "for his father". So even if you have so many trees that your house has ten+ crates of fruit stacked up, and when you're a true citrus junkie, you can never stop getting one more! Hey, only $39, a deal too good to pass up. What do you mean I don't need one? I only have a half dozen varieties of Clem x Orlando. And I want a Lee worse than Meyer_mike wants a variegated

Maybe we need a local chapter of "Citrus Anonymus"

    Bookmark   January 15, 2011 at 11:49PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

yes, lol, and i also hunger for the variegated lemon. WHY CANT YOU BE MINE WITH YOUR TRI-COLOERED LEAVES WHY!
lol, we must make a seperate, branch forum: Citrus Anonymus

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 1:52AM
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Gosh, so many posts in a couple days..:)

Mike. The streets are clear..plow-men worked over-time.
Most ppl shovel their walks or hire someone to do it, so every inch of snow that was on the sidewalks is tossed on lawns.
I'd day 7", which isn't much. When it comes to driving, people act like we got 10'. lol.
Growing up, there was three times as much snow as we get these days. We children loved playing in snow..the higher the better. Making snowmen, snowball fights...oh what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh, eh! lol

Andrew..one reason I can't wait until Fl's ban ends. There are a few more citrus I'd want to add. The two nurseries I order from box trees in tall, non-bulky cartons. A nail is hammered in the pot so the tree doesn't bounce around during shipping. Aside from 4-Winds, I never received a smashed tree or one w/broken limbs.

Jojo. Citrus are beautiful. Anyone who has access to an outdoor garden, patio, walk or porch, should have at the minimum, One citrus. Toni

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 2:47AM
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Andrew Scott

Hello Mike. How are ya? Sorry I am not here more often. I hope things are going better for you!

Hi Toni! It has been quite a while since we have emailed. How are ya? I cannot wait for winter to end. I hear ya on the lifting of the Florida ban on citrus but honestly, by the time it happens, I wont have any room to buy more, LOL! I am getting a tree from Four Winds this spring. Email me and I will tell ya all about it!

Hi Josh, Hope you and your plants are doing well. How is the weather over there. Did you miss the floods?


    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 12:58PM
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Larry, so you want a "Lee"? What the heck is that? I shall have to look that up if you want one that bad..lol

Jojo: Do you want me to name all the plants you have gotten in the past year? lololol
We won't even mention the "staghorn".lol
You are doing a fantastic job at keeping your tree healthy and ALIVE! I remember when I was loosing all of mine too.How mych money I was spending! Ho wmuch time I was wasting caring for plants that would never make it past a winter. Then all those that would survive, but just hold on, or nevr be a nice green and or flower or fruit abundantly.
Those days are past thank God and now if I could only teach someone around here how to care for them God forbid anything ever take me away from them for but a few days Jojo. This is always an underlying worry, one I try not to think about. Where will I get my back up?

I am so happy I had some influence, and not for the worst, lol. I can't even tell you how many people influenced my by name to collect varieties of plants!
Josh for Jades....Pug for Mangoe.....Jojo for a staghorn,lol coming soon. Laura and Bill for plumeria..... Mksmth for Clivia, along with Dr. Craig....Josh for Hoya, yup, Josh again....Al for just about anything that will grow in a pot....Toni for any weird, unusual houseplant that I don't have..Jodik for Roses and Amyrillis and the loist goes on..lol
Actually, it was you that influenced me to put plants in my bathroom..lol

Andrew: NO KIDDING! I only wish I was Josh and had access to all those nice places..Sheesh! I wonder how far he lives fron Four Winds? I would apply for a job there since believe it or not, I was told if I lived there, they would love to have me on board..lol

Toni:You make winter still so sound nice, fun, and pretty!
I guess I am still a kid at heart since I still make snowmen, have snow ball fights and snow board. I even wear snow shoes to get to my pop up in the back..lol
Hey come to think of it, it is even beneficial with all this snow. Natural insolation for all my bulbs and shrubs. You should of seen my plants lasy year after the frigid temps without snow covering.

Jojo: Yes>>>>! I am with Toni on that, in fact everyone here. Citrus are beautiful and especially when in bloom! You got to have more than one so there is always one blooming anytime of the year. Never a dull moment in my house..lol

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 1:16PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hello, everyone!
It's nice to see some good activity here!
Today, the sun is shining and the outdoors temperature is 60F.
I'm wearing a t-shirt and a pair of shorts. No snow here!

Andrew, welcome back...it's always nice when you stop in for a visit.
The floods mostly affected the southern part of the State. In my neck of the woods,
we got storm after storm, but the rain fell in such a manner that it was able to
soak into the ground before the flooding was too intense. This has been a very rainy
year. In the mountains, we've gotten hundreds of inches of snow.

Our snow is unique because of its high water content. It's much, much heavier than
the snow that falls around the country. It's actually called "Sierra Cement."

Hey, Mike! Good morning!
Four Winds Growers is 1 hour and 25 minutes from my house. They're located in
Winters, California, which is just a few minutes past UC Davis (where I went to school).
It's really close to Sacramento, a nice city (if you like to live in the city).
Click the link to see a map from Auburn to Winters:

Auburn to Winters, CA


    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 1:43PM
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Josh: You had to admit that right? Now you've done it. I am coming out for a visit real soon...lol

You are right! It is so nice to see Andrew pop in. I was beginning to think that his other trees were taking precedent over his citrus.........Hummmmm.

Andrew: Your citrus are not taking back seat, are they? lol
So good to see you buddy. How have your trees been anyway?
I hope the dang bugs have taken a vaca for a while.
The plant you sent me is doing great. I will e-mail you later..:-)

Josh, again you are so lucky!!! I must say that I can never forget the Moss pictures you post here. I just love your area.:-)


    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 2:03PM
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Lee is a Clementine x Orlando that tastes much like a Willow Leaf mandarin a.k.a. Mediterranian mandarin. Lee is a pollinizer for many mandarin hybrids. I bought a tree that was supposed to be a Lee about seven years ago but it turned out to be my third Page! I guess that was a mixed blessing. I love Page. So do my friends and neighbors.

I may make it out there again. My younger son wants to see the Redwoods and he has a new diesel 4x4. What other good citrus places could we visit? And when could we expect to see the decent selection? Do they have many in the summer when he and I could mix in an albacor tuna fishing trip?

I used to have grapes, alvacados and mangos but the anthracnose was so bad I gave up on them. I'm about to take out a row of peaches and plums across the back of the yard. They just feed the varmints. While others are expanding into other plants my citrus and jujubes keep me in the fruit. I have to add loquats to the favorable list too. My multi-grafted pear tree is still waiting instead of producing. Not only do my citrus get covered with hundreds of fruit but in about two months they will start sending out the most heavenly fragrance that will go into all the yards and across the the street. And those two golden grapefruit are the sweetest smelling of the lot.


    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 6:10PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

For you, Mike... ;)

The view from the back deck, overlooking the yard, the "lawn," and the mulched garden.

It's been a fantastic Sunday...I pulled my citrus out into the fresh air, mixed up some grit,
pruned a Christmas Cactus and a Wandering Jew, and then re-potted two incredible Jades
that you sent. Just wait until you see the pics.

I think Four Winds should have a great selection all throughout the year.
Of course, you'd probably want to call and ask them to be on the safe side.
If you're going to be in the area, you should visit UC Davis and see all that
they have to offer. Dave Wilson nursery, too, if it isn't completely out of the way.


    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 7:05PM
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Andrew Scott

Hi Mike,
My citrus are not taking a back seat. Actually I harvested tons of meyer lemons and still have a few stragglers hanging on. My newer Oro Blanco has been growwing by leaps and bounds while the other has been in suspended animation. I don't get it! No leaves, no flowers, no nothing but the stems are nice and healthy green!! I have had bug problems but none recently. I will definetly be spraying with FE before they come indoors next year!! I cannot wait for my next citrus from Four Winds this spring, if spring ever GETS HERE! LMAO!! I hate this winter crap!
I am not sure what plant your talking about. You should take pics and email them to me so I can see what you still have.

Hi Josh,
I am glad to hear that you made it without those darn floods. I had a feeling you would be okay living further north but just wanted to check.

I apologize for not being here as often as I used to. I will be coming back soon on a more regular basis. I have been doing research and actually running my own trials on growing plumerias in diffrent situations. I am so proud to have had 2 cuttings that successfully rooted in water!! This time of year is also one of the toughest times to root any plumeria no matter where you live. These tropicals have always been one of the most challenging for me to grow and I have had numerous triumphs and with that I have been spending a lot of time on both plumeria forums, so I apolgize to all my friends here for not being here more often.
Thanks for making me feel like I was really missed. That means a lot to me. I have not always had that feeling with other forums here(Mike, Josh and Bo, I am sure ya all know what forum I am talking about!)

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 8:04PM
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Josh, my Goodness! Thank you so much Josh! You know, I am going to use this picture as a backround for a while. It is so sereane and peaceful. Very clean backyards too. Just beautiful, but missing a few turkeys,lol. Thanks buddy!

Andrew: Sweet! It was either your trees were not a priority anymore or they are just doing awsome and others are in need of attention..lol
Good to see you. You know, it makes no sense how one can do so different than another when both get the same exact care. Crazy.
My "Oro" is about to bust out in blooms everywhere! Yahoo.3

Please come more often, ok?


    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 4:31PM
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Josh, looking at your picture again reminds me of spring here!! That is exactly what it looks like around here, except for the moss of course, right about April. Oh, I can't wait buddy! No snow on the ground after months of it!

Thanks again for this awesome picture. Just soothing.
I think your citrus love your area and so will any I send your way.


    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 7:46PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Thanks, Mike!

The backyard is very soothing...the ferns and moss beneath the redwood trees,
the ferns and moss beneath the birch trees...the flower and vegetable gardens,
the black bamboo grove, and the mixed Ailanthus and Liquidambar down to the creek...
it's pleasant to stroll around, indeed. The gophers make it treacherous, though.
Many a time I've sunk my foot to the ankle and had to scrub off my shoes!

As you know, I went citrusing again today - and I came home with the variegated lemon.
There were only 5 left (and only 2 of those strikingly variegated Calamondins).
People have been buying them like crazy!

At the register, one of the women started lecturing me about fertilizers, and she really
pissed me off. As soon as I mentioned Foliage Pro, she told me I was going to kill my trees.
Then she turned her back on me and stomped away, saying "Well good luck!"
and "Like I said, good luck!" as though I were a fool in need of luck. I felt like
telling her that "luck" plays no role in successful growing. And I almost
returned the tree right then and there to make a point that she'd lost a sale.

I'm not surprised, though. After all, they carry tons of Eleanor's VF-11 potion,
but no Foliage Pro - so obviously they're catering to the "old wife's tale" crowd
instead of well-versed gardeners and growers.

Kinda soured my lemon buying experience! ;)


    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 8:19PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

let nothing (even hopless saleswoman) "sour" (get it, lemon pun???) your purchase of the variegated lemon (holds back not-quite-tears-of-jealousy) ((jk, lol)). Oh, i wish i lived in a place with a citrus nursery, i desparetly want a variegated lemon

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 11:00PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Thanks, Andrew!
I figured you'd catch my lemon pun... ;)
I felt better as soon as I was out of the store.

The recent freezes had left some cold damage on the tender new growth,
but I think the tree will recover - then I can prune the dead tips in late Spring.
I certainly can't wait to get it re-potted...but that'll have to wait.

I'm looking forward to making some raspberry lemonade out of the fruit.
I bet the Blood Orange would add some great color to the mix.

I'll posts a few pics to the Winter Pics Thread.


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 1:29AM
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Josh, beautiful scene. Mike said it reminded him of spring, but to me, it looks like an autumn day. Where's the corn stalks and pumpkins. :)
As night is nearing, the western sky is bright enough to light up Mother Nature's scenery. Beautiful.
A peaceful area.

Mike, soon spring will be in our parts of the world. Let's say, give or take, 13 wks. We have to be optimistic; weeks sound so much quicker than months, right? Toni

Andrew, I was wondering where you were hiding. So, you've been fooling around, rooting Plumerias..hehe Congrats, getting them to root. Mind if I ask how you accomplished this task? I've never tried rooting a Plum before..Toni

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 12:06PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Thanks, Toni.

The drifts of leaves do lend an Autumnal look to the yard.
As the weather warms and the grass begins to grow, they'll magically disappear.


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 1:00PM
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Josh: I hate them things, along with Racoons, Groundhogs, Skunks, Squirrels, and stupid Hogs, lol
I can only imagine how many like to make themselves at home in that peacful area eating up all your precious beautiful plants..lol
Something tells me you have them all beat though!

Toni: 13 weeks does sound a heck of alot better. Thanks for that. One can only pray it is only 13 weeks and not till June before the warm weather moves in for good..
Josh's area is so tranquil for sure! I wish I could visit

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 1:16PM
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Josh, was the pic taken recently?

Mike, time goes by fast. What happened to Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's? lol.
It seems like a month ago I was wrapping candy for the kiddies..stores are displaying Valentine candy, 'already.'

The good news is, days are longer. Shortest day of the year was in Dec. Jan is almost over. Feb is a short month.

The last 3 years, my Gardenia was outdoors, soaking up sun, as early as March. Brought back in twice, but it spent more time outside than in.

But you're right. Some plants were set out as late as June. Depends on the plant.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 4:04PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hello, Toni.
Yes, that pic was taken on Sunday, January 16th.

Hey, Mike, how are you doing? Working hard no doubt.
I'm glad you're able to see the pics!


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 4:16PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

wow josh, i feel bad, you said "I figured you'd catch my lemon pun... ;)" and honestly, i didnt :(. i was feeling so clever making that up, and then i took the credit for it. But the credit is all yours, it was your pun first :)

i agree with toni, very autumnly.
oh, but i cant wait till spring. When it gets warmer, i plant to somehow aquire a variegated lemon, through any means nessecary (besides murder...or theft...or something ^>^) oh they are nice looking.

warm weather = empty pockets 4 andrew ^^


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 10:24PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Andrew, no worries man, I crafted that pun just for you...!
We need to get you a Punderosa lemon, pronto! ;)
The perfect tree for you.

Ever been to Texas? I hear there's an entire festival devoted to Puns.
My Uncle is all about puns....to the point where you start to consider attacking him
just to make it stop.

Several esteemed writes have written, "He who would pun would pick a pocket." ;)


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 10:46PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

HAHAHA, i re-read this post 2ce, expecting a pun in some form or fashion, i thought that 'Pun'derosa was a typo, then i thought: Wait a minute....LOL. Anyways Josh, that was very *punny* (for those less pun-minded: think Funny, get it?)
Maybe i will get a punderosa after mine variegated. I look forward to growing the huge, mutated-almost lemons that i have seen pictures of. But first on the list is the variegated.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 10:58PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Thank you, I knew you'd catch it! ;)

By the way, I'll have more pics to share tomorrow, once my photobucket bandwidth resets.
I have a clearer pic of the whole tree, and a good shot of the low graft. Despite the limited
number of trees, and the cold damage on several branches, I think I got the best
of the trees that were left.


    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 11:14PM
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call_me_wizfire(7b Central Arkansas)

im looking forward to pics of that variegated

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 11:39PM
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What happened to my youthful appearence...?lol
Everytime I look in the rear view mirror, I keep wondering what happened to the guy I use to know.lol
It seems like yesterday when my parents were young and I was just a kid.:-((((
Yes days are longer, now I wish we could just match the more sun with warmer temps. I am sick of this winter. Snow again today and they are already talking another blizzard for next week. I have run out of room for more snow.
My pop up is tired of being almost popped!
This weekend will be the coldest in 60 years. -11 degrees!
I am not sure how cold it will get in that pop up with 2 space heaters.
It only goes down to teh high 40's in there when the temps are into the single numbers. Thank God for the remote thermometer that let's me see the temps from inside.

Hope you are doing well Toni and we shall chat later:-)

Andrew: Oh boy! Wait until those trees get shipped to a local nursery near you..lol

Josh, me too! I am looking forward ro many more pictures of your trees and that beautiful variegated one..
Snow again today! At least I get to work in jeans today. Yahoo...Got to look at the bright side I guess..


    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 8:47AM
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andrewofthelemon(7b Central Arkansas)

sigh, they probably wont ever be mike. The closest ever seen by me here was several years ago in a home depot. It was lemon basil, and although it did smell like lemons, i didnt get it

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 7:38PM
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Your back yard does look peaceful.

I was looking at the Canadian temps today and I can see how you can be having the coldest weather in a long time. It is really cold up there. If it was that cold two weeks ago we would have lost some in the ground citrus here but it was not this bad up there then. So far we have been lucky down here this year.

I have only about 2 or 3% of my fruit left on the trees and that would be gathered in now except spring came late last year and it is not ripe yet. After last year, I can really feel for you guys in low # zones in wanting spring to arrive. Reminds me of a guy from Bay City, MI who xferred down here and told me the two best snows are the first and the last ones.

Now the good news. First spring wild flowers (vetch) have opened in my grove. On close inspection, a few of my trees seem some have blossom buds starting to swell. I need to gather more budwood ASAP. This seems strange since it has been freezing or borderline at least once a week since Dec 1st. Must be day the light getting longer. Tonight's forecasts range 25 to 34 deg F depending on source. I covered my shortest trees holding fruit but did not string out the lights. Would like to clear them out so it will help suppress alternate bearing. I like to have that done by Jan 10.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 8:01PM
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Mike, I know what you mean. Just, was it yesterday,?, a little girl of nine, 60-70lbs?? with long, medium brown hair, big, brown eyes was jumping rope, Hop-Scotch, and Hide-and-go-Seek. Today that girl still has long, brown, 'from a bottle,' hair, big brown/green eyes, 5'5, 115 lbs, sits before a computer, 'What's that, mom?,' watching big people tv shows, in a home filled with greens. That 9-yr-old wasn't allowed to keep plants in the 'spotless' house, so instead she went to the store, bought veggie seeds, dug and planted these seeds in the ground. The tomatoes were big, two watermelons, her doggie decided tasted yummy, grew, but she didnt know onions and carrots grew underground, or the corn seeds would grow into tall blades of Horse Corn. :)

Mike, I HATE winter, too. SADS. Don't want to step out the door. I'm really trying to be optimistic. It could be worse. We could live in International Falls, MN..their temp was -45..that isn't counting wind-chill.
The high here was 4F, tonight -2F. Wonder what the temp will be counting wind-chill. No snow, but it's on its way. One thing about snow..it reflects and brightens the ground, air and our plants.
Mike, do you have outdoor perrenials? If so, cut off a branch, and place in water..it'll flower!
I had a Pussy Willow..'it grew like a weed, so out it went.' Late Jan, early Feb, I'd remove a few branches, place in water and it'd flower. Magnolias do, too. I'm sure there are other plants, but those are the two I've forced. Flowers might perk you up.
Do you grow Snow Crocus? They flower, outdoors, when snow is on the ground..It's not much, but that's all I have to offer. :)
Feel better, it could be worse..Toni

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 8:59PM
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Toni..You are right! Snow does reflect the sun and it is a lot brighter in my rooms and at work. I guess that can be one upside to it since we are going to get another 15 inches come Wed. I am just tired of shoveling and at 430 in the am. I would rather be with my citrus at my house in the Tropics..lol

Larry..Wow..That is something. I can't believe how cold up there and even in your area it is pretty nippy. I always thought that the deep south was just that, the deep south with rather consistent temps all winter. No lower than the 50's.
I guess it makes planting in the ground very challenging for many tropicals, or should I say sub-tropical.
It is great that the flowers are showing. Yahoo. The sun is getting stronger and higher in the sky..lol
Great info on getting a new citrus you gave to the newcomer the other day.:-)

Josh: More pictures, please?:-)

How are your new arrivals to the little colony doing? Are the mites under control? I bet they were dent off without even a farewell..lol

I shall have to check out other threads and see if you posted anything. Been kind of ill for a few days..


    Bookmark   January 25, 2011 at 1:58PM
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I hope you're feeling better.

Here I was thinking we dodged the worst for the winter and mother nature took offense. We had temps in the mid to upper 20's about ten days ago. A few leaves were curled a little. Two nights ago it was 23 to 25 for several hours.
My trees will loose most of their leaves. Two trees have blossom buds. It will be about the same or worse tomorrow night.

I think I lost one tree that had been damaged last year.
It sure looks bad.

I think I'll go citrus shopping after this is over.


    Bookmark   February 3, 2011 at 9:13PM
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Thank you:-)

I am so sorry to hear about this, with your plants:-((

Nothing worst than loosing something that is valuable to you, and certain plants can mean a lot to us.
This weather is just too much for the whole country.

If that ground hog is wrong, and we still have a long winter and late spring, it won't live to see another year...

Good luck to you Larry, and please tell us how you fared, ok? Let us know how everything turned out for you.

Josh: I hope to see you stop by soon. You are missed here.

We shall chat later...


    Bookmark   February 4, 2011 at 8:23AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

Hey, guys, sorry you're dealing with these brutal cold temps!
I went by the nursery the other day with my camera, but the trees didn't impress me.
Lots of tip damage from the recent cold, and the leaves are pale and veiny.
I'm glad I bought when I did.

I haven't seen much change in my trees. I haven't watered much, and so I haven't fertilized either.
I did put some Wandering Jew cuttings in my Blood Orange container to see how they do with the temps.
They're looking vibrant and healthy, so I must assume that the cold-frame is keeping the cold out!
I've killed Wandering Jew, exposed, as soon as temps drop below 50 degrees F for a few hours.
I figure that they'll use up some of the moisture, as well, and they'll go limp when dry...
thus, letting me know when to water.

Larry, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you....and if worse comes to worst, I hope you find
some excellent replacement plants.

Hey, Mike, it was good talking to you!


    Bookmark   February 4, 2011 at 8:10PM
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Thanks Josh for your empathy. It has been terrible! Nothing melts for days on end!

I have collected water from the storm drains into a 32 gallon bucket over two months ago, and it has not thawed to water since. Therefore, the other two I have in the cellar that were full are now dried out. It's back to faucet water again:-(

Sorry that place was such a huge disappointment for you. Man, I think it's time to go back to the other place now that your spring has sprung, unless the nursery you are talking about is the same one as above? That would be just horrible to see all those ruined.

What a great idea with the Wandering Jew.
I think your trees are about to show some buds soon, right?
At least I know that once your ponderosa starts to take, it will be blooms first that will dazzle you before any new leaves. We shall see;-)


    Bookmark   February 9, 2011 at 4:02PM
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andrewofthelemon(7b Central Arkansas)

I love wandering jew, i have quite a collection.
Sorry about me not being here often, i have stumbled upon the wonders of african violets, though i am not neglecting my one remaining citrus.
They are very fun, and i encourage anyone to grow them.

I might want to try the thing with the WJ.
I have 8in. Of snow right now, and it wont melt until sunday

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 1:07AM
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