transplant seedlings to bigger cups?

darobi2459(5)February 25, 2013

Hi everyone! Im pretty sure I need to move my seedlings to a bigger home. I used little cells to start them and haven't seen much growth if not some yellowing in them the past week. There only about 2inchs tall and most growing 3rd or 4th leaf.

I have applied diluted fertilizer (jump start) for the second time a couple days ago. My others in cups are three times as big generally. Ill have to take a pic and add it. seedlings are approx 4 weeks old now.

Thanks David

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najoba(8b)

Hi David,

I'm sure some folks have a lot of success starting their seeds in the cells and Jiffy pots, but I've heard others advise against it, unless the cells provide a lot of depth for root development. Daylily seedlings have a very long "tap root." I'm sure there are better terms for that but that's what I call it. The best results for me have been to start them in 16 oz white styrofoam cups. I can plant up to 8 seeds in them but I seldom have 8 seeds from one cross germinate at the same time. I rarely mix crosses in the cups, so I could have anywhere from 1 seedling to six as the general rule.

After they put forth their second set of leaves, I change out the water in the pans to dilute fertilizer solution. They remain in that solution continuously until time to transplant. The cups provide plenty of room for root development.

I tried something different this past fall. I transplanted some of my growing seedlings into square white hydroponic pots. These pots of seedlings have been kept continuously in three kiddy wading pools full of water. I couldn't buy any more pools last fall, so the remainder were all transplanted and grown in 5-gallon pots. I water them as needed.

Those in the pools have far outdistanced the others in development. They have big fans now and it would not surprise me if many of them bloomed this first spring. I did not add any fertilizer once the weather turned colder.

I am quite impressed with this method of growing them. I have Tommy Maddox to thank for graciously sharing information on his "water beds." Since installing beds like his was not an option for me at this time, I figured the pools would work.

Seeing the difference in development between seedlings grown in pots and those kept in the pools full of water, in the future I'll buy more kiddy pools and only grow my seedlings (when ready for transplant) in them.

I have also observed that seedlings grown in white pots have a much better growth rate than those in black (or other color) ones. The only down-side is that the white pots have no UV protection and disintegrate after one season in our long hot summers. They are also hard to find on-line. I will try and post some pictures of the two groups - those in black nursery pots and those that have been kept in the pools.

There are some cells that hybridizers use that allow for great root development. I'd like to buy some of them this coming season and give them a try. I think they'd be an improvement over the white styrofoam cups. Here's the link:

http://www.stuewe.com/products/rayleach.php

Good luck with your seedlings. It won't be long now before they can be transplanted to your garden!

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 8:42AM
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marricgardens

Hi David. Like Nancy, I start my seeds in large 16 oz. beverage cups I buy at the dollar store. I use the clear, plastic ones because I like to see the root formation. I also sow several seeds in each cup. The first year I sowed seeds, I couldn't find the cups so I used smaller ones. With the larger ones I never have to transplant until I put them in the garden. Marg

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 9:01AM
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Julia NY(6)

Like the others I use the 16oz cups because of the length of time they will be kept in them. I buy mine at the BJ's club and pay about $5.00 for typically 100. I only plant 1 germinated seed per cup. Found it easier when I have to plant them out. The cups can be cleaned and reused the following year and just remark for the cross.

What size cells are you using? I've known folks to use the tree plug cells with great success if they can transplant sooner than we would here in the north.

The other thing you mentioned was the yellowing of leaves. That could be for a number of reasons. Over watering, over fertilizing (too strong a mix), too little water or poor drainage. If the roots are coming out the bottom of your cells then as Nancy mentioned it could be root bound.

When you have a chance, post a pic. Seeing the issue is sometimes easier.

Julia

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 1:16PM
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darobi2459(5)

This was my first year and so I split the cell/cup methods to see for myself how each worked for me.

Julia, I might have let them dry out a bit to much (the cells) last week. I am terrified of damping off lol, but I also used a dilluted fungicide when I filled them. I am using Ferti-Lome seed and cutting mix as well. The lights are @ 2 inches up and and are on 15 hours. I have a fan lightly blowing, and I have 1- 4ft t5 6500, and a t12 4 foot with ge plant and aquarium lights.

Thanks for your great response Nancy! The pool sounds like a very efficient and good way to get seedlings going :)

Marg, I actually did by the clear ones too for when I divide them up. I was thinking on the same page as you it seems :)

Thanks everyone!
David

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 5:28PM
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darobi2459(5)

cant seem to figure out how to upload more than one pic at a time

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 5:30PM
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dementieva(Zone 9 - Houston)

Nancy,

How do you keep the pools mosquito-free?

Nate

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 9:53PM
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najoba(8b)

Here are a couple of pictures of one group of seedlings being grown in my improvised "water beds." The first picture was taken when they were three months old, and the second was taken today with six months of growth.

November 2012

February 2013

I don't understand Photobucket - both pictures were same size when uploaded!

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 10:06PM
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darobi2459(5)

Thats awesome Nancy! and wow! those are some huge seedlings :) Not sure if that would work well in my zone 5 :( Its about 25 degrees right now.

I just transplanted about half the ones in cells into 20 oz. they did seem to have root down to the bottom and some it was starting to wrap. I also used a different soiless called Batco. The local nursery recomended it, it seemed real nice.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 12:39AM
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Julia NY(6)

Those cells were too small. But if you want to experiment, then it gives you a good idea as to what will happen. I've seen someone who did daylily seeds in flats but once hers germinated and sprouted, she moved them into individual pots.

You may know this already but be careful with your lights. Don't let the foliage tips touch the lights or it will burn them. One of my lessons learned :-(.

Nancy: Love the idea of a kiddie pool and in the heat of summer when any seedlings that have not been put in the ground, I could actually do that. Might save on having to go out and water all the time.

Julia

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 12:21PM
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marricgardens

Nancy: how much water do you put in the bottom of the pool? I always wanted to try but thought the seeds might rot with to much water. Yours look great! I'd have to start mine inside but I guess I could use a smaller Rubbermaid container. Marg

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 1:11PM
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najoba(8b)

Julia, I only need to add water about once a week if it doesn't rain. The kiddy pool seedlings are about five times bigger than the rest of those I planted in the 5-gallon pots.

I don't know yet how they will do in mid-summer when our temperatures get above 100.

Nate, we used Mosquito Dunks according to directions on package. In a pinch, you can add a few squirts of Dawn dishwashing liquid as it kills any mosquito larva within a couple of hours, if not sooner.

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 1:23PM
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squirrellypete(z7b AL)

I like your idea with the tubs and mosquito dunks, that looks very effective for enhancing growth. I wouldn't mind trying something like that but I worry about the labrador. I would assume drinking "mosquito dunk" water would not be a good thing for him.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:12PM
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najoba(8b)

Marg, when I plant the sprouted seeds, I put them in cups with holes punched not only in the bottom but around the sides, too. They are kept in aluminum foil roasting pans full of water (or water + fertilizer) at all times and do not allow them to ever dry out.

I transplanted the first seedlings to white hydroponic pots since that's the only white ones I could find on-line. The pots have quite a few holes on the sides, so I keep the pools full of water. I tried buying more pools, but it was too late in the season. So most of my seedlings are growing in pots, but they aren't doing nearly as well as those in the pools.

Daylilies love water, and growing them in it is not a problem. I haven't experienced any root rot or damp-off.

My dogs do sneak a drink out of the pools sometimes, but they know they'll get in trouble if they do. They don't like me getting mad at them. Mosquito Dunks and/or Dawn apparently didn't harm them, but I try to keep a close watch on them when I let them outside, as the pools are right by our patio. I may get a pool just for them and hopefully they'll learn that it's O.K. to drink in that one.

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 9:19PM
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marricgardens

Thanks for clearing that up Nancy. Another question, if the daylilies have grown in water, is there any problem when planting them directly in the garden? I also found this out about the mosquito dunks. I use them all the time in the rain barrels. Basicly it says the Dunks are Bt and not harmful to pets or wildlife. Marg http://www.planetnatural.com/site/mosquito-dunks.html

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 8:26AM
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najoba(8b)

Marg, there's no problem transplanting seedlings from cups kept in water to the garden. I haven't yet transplanted those that are growing in the pools to the garden as this is the first year I've tried this. I do not anticipate a problem, since the daylilies I purchased from Tommy Maddox did well, and I'm assuming he grew them in his "water beds."

Do you get mosquitos in your rain barrels? I have big buckets full of rain water that never have any mosquito larvae. A friend of mine who grew up on a large farm in Mississippi told me that mosquitos don't grow in collected rain water. She said when she was little, they didn't have a well so they used rain water for all their needs. When they ran out of rain water, they'd have to go their grandmother's house and haul water back home in buckets from her well. There were 12 children in the family, so the kids would have to haul the water.

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 9:28AM
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marricgardens

Yes, we get mosquitos in the rainbarrels. Every time I go to use them I can see them swimming around. My rainbarrels are open because we fill them from the large holding tank. Maybe if the rainbarrels are closed there is no problem with it. I've just started using the mosquito dunks to get rid of them. I'm going to give the water beds a try when I start my seedlings next year. Thanks. Marg

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 12:26PM
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vino(zone 6)

I plant between 5,000 & 12,000 daylily seeds each year..long ago realized it is far better to plant them directly in soil...First week of April each year I plant my seeds in raised beds, seeds 1 inch apart rows 4 inches apart...In August seedlings are transplanted in the field, plants 6 inches apart and rows 8 inches apart...each year about 75% bloom when 14-16 months old...when I started seeds indoors never had that percentage bloom the first year...much less work starting outside..

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 4:02PM
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najoba(8b)

Wow vino that's a lot of seeds! I'd be planting them out in the ground, too, if I had that many. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't "mother" my seeds and seedlings, though! LOL

I had fire ants consume 4998 poppy seeds that were planted several years ago, and I ended up with two poppy plants. One huge wax-like poppy ended up at quite a distance from the rest. I suspect it was carried and fertilized by a bird. The other plant popped up out of a fire ant mound - one that they must have overlooked. I'd be afraid that some critters would carry off seeds from my best crosses between two $200 daylilies!

Nancy

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 8:20PM
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gdjcb

vino, If you don't mind I have a couple of questions. Do you do any pretreatment of your seeds, soaking etc.? You say you plant the first week of April, is this after your average last frost date? Do you use garden dirt or starting soil in your raised beds, and do you use mulch? This will be my first year to grow daylilies and any info would be helpful. If good results are possible by direct sowing, that would be great. The info I have found concerning it on-line has implied less than stellar results but I would give a method that has been successful for someone a try.

Thanks,
Gale

Thanks,
Gale

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 2:11PM
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darobi2459(5)

The seedlings are looking good after putting them in cups. No signs of stress either :) They must have been happy to get out of the little cells.

As a side question that I know is out here in the forum in numerous places, but I will need more lights here pretty soon when I divide up the seedlings that are 5 or 6 to cup. It looks like I can get a t5ho 4ft 4 bulb for around a hundred, or a 6 bulb 4ft t8 for around the same price. There pretty close on lumens,but just wanted more of the good thoughts that are available here :)

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:01PM
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marricgardens

I knew I had seen starter trays for daylilies somewhere. The other day I was reading some of the journals again and found them. Volume 66 No. 4, Winter 2011, Pg. 46 & 47. I googled and found this link for Landmark: http://issuu.com/kleidon/docs/landmarkcatalog Marg

    Bookmark   March 4, 2013 at 7:42PM
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