No Bud Zone

whaas_5a(5A SE WI)May 19, 2012

Sorry for the lackluster participation and now I'm going to roll in with a lame question. I promise to follow-up with a pic loaded post.

I have several plants that have a massive no bud zone. I thought Resin had mentioned that its a crapshoot as to weather the plant will put out buds the next year. Basically the foilage will persist for 4-5 years and then thats it.

Are these plants destine to be mutants? I have the option to turn in for credit now.

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

hey

i see the cones..

i see the pollen sacs ...

am i also seeing some freeze damaged buds???

i always say conifers hold their needles 1 to 3 years ... i dont know about the 4 to 5 ... i am only repeating what i heard here.. so you know the veracity of that.. lol ..

if a bud is damaged.. while extending .... i think.. key word there.. that it is no different than candle pruning.. and you have odds of it forming new buds for new year ...

otherwise.. it looks like about 25% of my collection.. and all i can do is wait it out .. to see how it reacts ...

i, of course.. have no warranty issues ... is that the root of your question??

ken

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 7:33AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Pretty much. I can wait it out but if odds are that it won't produce buds I'll pull it and exchange it.

No freeze damage as all my Abies are late to bud. They just don't have any buds from what I can tell on all the tips and along the shoot.

I have a few others like this where there are only news shoots/bud in the very upper crown.

Earlier I posted about excessive cones but at least those have sporadic buds/new shoots. It will just take time for those to fill in. With these there is no filling in unless it creates buds on those existing shoots from last year.

This year has been a bust for sure.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 7:48AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Was it potted or b&b?

Dave

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 7:55AM
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strobiculate

someone got crowded at the nursery. nice sun and room to grow= happy bud. (insert joke here)

new purchase? so warranty expires...next spring? I assume you buy enough to achieve favored customer status. although what is the purpose of the warranty? to cover life and death of the plant or your personal pleasure and satisfaction? I'd talk to the people who jave the juice and let it be known you desire a plant that is full and self facing, not a table top. most places i deal with are willing to extend the warranty on such things (i also don't expect them to honor the warranty when the DAS gets a bit of winterburn), and generally if it works out everyone is ahead of the game by playing the waiting game.

fyi, different species hold onto needles for different periods of time. P. aristata retention is something like seventeen years.

my guess is that with light and room the plant will start to do what you want.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 8:52AM
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noki

Those grafted firs are always funky and awkward looking. Takes years to look more natural.

You question seems to be if those lower branches are ruined forever. If the branches are alive, and get sun, they should grow, or some should, and make a better shape over time. I'm not sure about the slow death of the branch idea.

You could buy a newer younger graft, and hope your individual care will result in a better shape?

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 11:06AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

This one is potted, another one is b&b. One is in full sun and the other is in part shade. Its really a mix bag.

The only constant is that this year the plants put new growth out at the very upper tear of branches.

I have a 2 year warranty. 1 full year in the ground.

I hope I didn't make this confusing.
The actual question is it probable or not probable that LAST year's growth will put out buds two seasons later.

Not sure if these pics help or not.

Here are the tips of the Korean fir

Oriental spruce with a few loan buds. Terminal buds ended up as cones.

Picea glauca loaded with cones and no new growth.

I'm sure I'll be one year wiser next year!

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 11:50AM
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severnside

If you took the warranty out of the equation you would have to simply have to wait and see. The luxury of having a warranty is making it a 'when do I pull the plug' issue.

The DNA has two missions, grow and reproduce. The first depends on good health. The second can be either a sign of good health or quite the opposite, the last gasp to reproduce. Also there are mast years when reprodution goes into overdrive.

Again, leaving out the warranty time limit, you would surely expect if the plants have great condition in 12 months time that the 'grow' imperative will simply be there at least in some degree.

I have an open arrangement with a nursery whereby they are willing to refund me on my Abies procera 'Sherwoodii' as it looked a little sick but I elected to go with it until it's really on it's way out. It has rallied and is putting out new growth. You could ask your nusrsery to wait with you on the outcome whereby they stand a good chance of not paying out in a similar way.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 4:09PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Patience surely is a virtue.

Sure was beauty a few months after I planted this one.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 4:26PM
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Cher(6 SW OH)

whaas is that the same tree from above? If it is, I think I would have to replace it now. Really why lose another year and start over where you were.
Cher

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 4:47PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

That is the one I posted with an up close of the terminal ends.

Planted this one April 2011 as one of my first conifers and most expensive one to boot in the best areas of the yard. Put out some nice growth that spring.

Nursery just got in new ones loaded with buds...I'm so jealous. The best one had a serious gash on the main trunk though.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 10:19PM
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greatplainsturf(6/7 OK)

I've got a related question. I have a picea abies planted in April that has bud growth but it's very wimpy. The top 1/4 of the tree has decent growth of 3 inches or so but below that the growth is only about 1 inch. It broke bud about a month ago and is just really growing slowly if at all. The growth on top is developing buds but the lower doesn't yet. The needles are so short and immature. The tree shows no other signs of stress or discoloration. Is it possible for the tree put out growth that isn't producing viable buds for the next year?

    Bookmark   May 20, 2012 at 10:54PM
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jth97381

I have a stupid question for you. If the plant looked great last year in the spring, what happend to kill the buds on the new growth? Late frost? Maybe spray damage? If you used 2,4-d anywhere near by it could of volatilized and drifted to the lower buds on the tree. The close up looks like they just crapped out after some kind of stress. Either eway I think you will get some new buds after several years if not sooner. Just not maybe like you would want to have a full plant. Good luck.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 1:30AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Get a replacement/credit for the omorika and the koreana.

Greatplainsturf: your tree is fine, I looked at it.

Dax

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 6:49AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

"The only constant is that this year the plants put new growth out at the very upper tear of branches".

That is a fairly common occurrence. Why I don't know.

Remember these plants are in new surroundings and out of sorts...so to speak. It takes 3 years to acclimate and get back to normal. Expect a few losses when doing many plantings.

Time will sort out many of your issues.

Dave

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 9:18AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Jason, is it possible they never developed buds? Besides transplanting strees the only other strees for the conifers in the last 12 months was the heat from last summer (although they all looked great during the growing season with the exception of a few Serbians that I pulled late srping). Both the Silberlocke and Picea engelmannii did the same exact same thing, just a few buds in the upper teir. The rest of the plants just had heavy coning. I thought things would be doing well after a very mild winter.

Dax, I'm going to leave the larger Korean as is but pull the smaller Korean. Might be too dry for that one anyhow longterm. I'm going to have to hang in there with the Oriental spruce as I missed the window of oppurtunity in April (that was one the first I planted last year). Here is to hoping for next year!

Dave, I think its quite evident that I lack patience, lol. Although its nice to get feedback from those that have much more experience than I with conifers. I've had many more decidious losses this year. Only a few conifers so far. Frost zapped the life out of Larix Newport Beauty!

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 4:34PM
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jth97381

From looking at the pictures, I was assuming that the first picture you were showing was of tree with no lower buds and then later you showed the same plant last spring with all the new growth. Is this correct? Are they the same exact plant? If so that indicates that something happened mid growing cycle last year that caused the brances to die back and not develop the buds. As fas as all the cones go on the spruce, that is stress of some sort. Probably from the transplanting. Im sure they will come out of it in a year or two. Enjoy the cool cones for now.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 12:14AM
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greatplainsturf(6/7 OK)

If it did die back and not produce buds , is it destined for deformity, or will it somehow put new buds on the old wood?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 1:06AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Jason, you're right on. Most all the plants shown where planted dormant and they all put on a nice flush. Not so much this year.

Although the winter was mild, last summer was a killer and the moisture levels where quite low. I thought I had it much better than those south of me though. I remember the Korean Firs where starting to shed needles later in the season too.

Do the plants put forth energy to form and hold on to the cones? If so does it makes sense to remove them?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 11:32AM
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