Does pod or pollen parent matter for carrying traits?

crackingtheconcrete(7a)March 25, 2010

Hi :)

I've been trying to research a lot about crossing daylilies, and just had a question:

I noticed that sometimes ppl will correct themselves and says "sorry.. it was (daylily name) that was the pod parent, not the pollen parent"

Does it really matter which parent is the pod or pollen parent genetically, or is the designation of which parent was the pod and which was the pollen parent, just for ppls information?

NOt sure if I'm asking this well.

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bambi_too(5 Ohio)

I think both contribute. I have noticed that the pod parent usually passes on it's plant habit, and the pollen parent form. The thing to remember is nothing is set in stone. The genetics of the modern daylily are so complex anything can happen. The best advice I could give you is to use the best parents you can. I will often use a newer cultivar with an older one. One exception is the really unique or distinct flower, I will use them even if plant habit is not up to snuff.

Disclaimer, I hybridize for myself and hope others like the plants, and I realy don't care if they don't.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 8:17AM
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lisa_3(5)

I've not researched it enough to see how it affects flower blooms-I just hybridize for fun, but I do know one area where it matters. You can cross a tetraploid to a diploid but you can't cross a diploid to a tetraploid and get seeds.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 9:31AM
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crackingtheconcrete(7a)

Thanks, guys :)
I"m also hybridizing for fun, but since I have a really limited amount of space, I kind of wanted to limit things to my favorite crosses and had thought that if pod/pollen parent mattered as far as what it passed on, I'd choose the one I liked better.

I"m SO Excited.. I have this whole notebook of possible crosses I wrote out this winter (assuming my daylilies all survive.) I was kind of laughing though because I went on a database to check traits/fertility, etc. and almost everything I Have chosen has no record .. which I"m assuming means it's not a popular cross OR the ones I chose are just not that fertile.. guess I"ll find out. !!
:)

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 10:57AM
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xokientx(z7aOK)

The early rule was, as Bambi says, Pod parent for plant habit, pollen parent for flower. This rule has been hotly debated over the years. My feeling is it doesn't matter; from experience. I try to make all my crosses both ways. I do feel each cross favors one or the other parent, but you don't know which until you try them enough times.

lisa, only in the very rarest of cases, can dips cross with tets. And I've never seen the results justify the efforts.
Ed

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 11:54AM
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bambi_too(5 Ohio)

Ed, on the Dip X Tet crosses, the first generation doesn't show much, but when you use them for breeding you will see some interesting results in the next generation.

I am seeing where the pod parent passes on plant habit for sure in my seedlings. As far as the face goes, I'm not so sure to pollen parent has all the input but that's what I've heard.

OP just have fun!

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 2:09PM
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xokientx(z7aOK)

Bambi, but using converted dips, the good results start immediately. So why beat yourself up? Look at all the 2010 intros and see how many come from converted dips, 1st generation. How many from dip X tet crosses? Actually, the odds would be about the same for embryo conversion. So low that it is just not worth the effort, not with today's readily available converted dips, IMHO of course!

To give you an answer for pod vs. pollen parent tributes, I suggest taking a distinctive parent, plugging it into Tinker's database and looking at the flower's children. Try to use something with at least a 100 pod vs. 100 pollen children. See if you think any pattern develops.

If you find something, let me know. I need convincing.
Ed

Here is a link that might be useful: Tinker's database home page

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 6:32PM
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acerbob(z8aGA.)

Hey guys interesting thread. But I am new to this language shorthand. I feel dumb asking this. What does IMHO stand for.
Thanks Bob

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 9:25PM
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xokientx(z7aOK)

In My Humble Opinion
Ed :0)

    Bookmark   March 26, 2010 at 10:48PM
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bambi_too(5 Ohio)

Ed, I use the H. fulvas with the reduced gametes, and why you ask? Well, I can't think of any plants that are more vigorous. I am sure you can see the advantages there.

I also do have quite a few conversions here that are used.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2010 at 8:14AM
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gardenfanatic(MO zone5b)

So would plant habit include branching and bud count? Or would bud count be part of the flower traits?

Deanna

    Bookmark   April 16, 2010 at 12:50AM
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xokientx(z7aOK)

I would include branching and bud count with plant habit.
Ed

    Bookmark   April 16, 2010 at 11:44AM
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