Persimmon Branch grafting Multi Cultivars

picea(6A Cinci- Oh)March 16, 2009

Has anyone had success grafting multiple culitvars of persimmon on one tree. If so when did you graft in relationship to the tree leafing out and what type of graft?

David

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creekweb(6,7)

It's not difficult to graft different cultivars onto a persimmon tree - the challenge in the case of grafting onto American persimmon is to keep them from being self-pruned. There are several ways to get around this problem. One is to prune the tree over several years prior to grafting to establish several main trunks to the tree and then graft a different variety to each trunk. Another approach is to graft onto either Asian persimmon or date plum intead of American persimmon. These are much less likely to self-prune. They can be grown from seed or can be grafted onto American persimmon rootstock to serve as a type of exaggerated interstem. The drawback to this approach is compromised cold hardiness, especially when using Asian persimmon. The advantage to this technique is the potential to graft quite a few different varieties to one tree. The best time to graft is just when the tree is pushing out its first leaves and the temperature is about 80 during the day and about 65 at night. A number of different grafting techniques will work, but those that maximize cambium to cambium contact seem to work best.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2009 at 1:15AM
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picea(6A Cinci- Oh)

Thanks for the info creekweb.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2009 at 10:40PM
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njbiology

Hi Creekweb,

I've been considering the subject of multi-grafting an American persimmon for quite some time and have been going over all sorts of strategies.

Initially, I thought it would be a good idea to plant multiple saplings (each a different cultivar) into the same hole only 5" apart from one another hoping that they will, eventually, fuse (inosculate) together into a single trunk when they have all expanded to fill-in the space between each other. I, ultimately, decided against this strategy upon the advice of Jerry Lehman who suggested that the trunks would not likely fuse and would become diseased, etc. I don't know, but I think that this might not be the best solution. But what if this was done when the trunks were only 1" wide, if that, and placed flushed against eachother (bare-root)?

Then I looked into 'approach grafting'. But the principle is the same, because Jerry recommended that Diospyros virginiana trunks, in particular, do not heal well when wounded - but if saplings, I would think it would be the same as if grafted (that heals...).

Well, having just read your reply to the above post, I'm thinking about waiting until my 'Meader' is large enough and then, maybe attempting a multi graft onto it. Can you please give a detailed description of how you would do this. Would it be the same as with an apple tree? Do you mean that you would cut off each limb and do something of a rind graft onto each limb of a different variety. If this would work, I would raise my 4 small persimmon trees until the year that I can use scion wood from each to in-graft into the Meader. I look forward to hearing your views on this - if you can, please review the ideas that I mentioned above.

Thanks,
Steve

Then I researched

    Bookmark   April 10, 2009 at 6:17PM
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njbiology

Please, read this instead:

Initially, I thought it would be a good idea to plant multiple saplings (each a different cultivar) into the same hole only 5" apart from one another hoping that they will, eventually, fuse (inosculate) together into a single trunk when they have all expanded to fill-in the space between each other. I, ultimately, decided against this strategy upon the advice of Jerry Lehman who suggested that the trunks would not likely fuse and would become diseased, etc. I don't know, but I think that this might not be the best solution. But what if this was done when the trunks were only 1" wide, if that, and placed flushed against eachother (bare-root)?

Then I looked into 'approach grafting'. But the principle is the same, because Jerry recommended that Diospyros virginiana trunks, in particular, do not heal well when wounded - but if saplings, I would think it would be the same as if grafted (that heals...).

Well, having just read your reply to the above post, I'm thinking about waiting until my 'Meader' is large enough and then, maybe attempting a multi graft onto it. Can you please give a detailed description of how you would do this. Would it be the same as with an apple tree? Do you mean that you would cut off each limb and do something of a rind graft onto each limb of a different variety. If this would work, I would raise my 4 small persimmon trees until the year that I can use scion wood from each to in-graft into the Meader. I look forward to hearing your views on this - if you can, please review the ideas that I mentioned above.

Thanks,
Steve
What if 4 bare-root nursery-grafted saplings of the same height (less then 1" diameter) were wrapped flushed/tightly together with tape [so that there is no room in between each other were planting in the ground]? They would be wrapped around the base, midway up from ground level, and a third tape wrap at the top. Since they are young, wouldn't they have thin-enough bark exteriors that they would form a single trunk as they expand? I feel strongly about doing this... I don't want to make a mistake and cause the 4 to rot, instead of fusing, however. I've seen a wiki link that showed 4 trees of 4 cores growing next to each other showing that their 4 cores migrated to the center - cross-section/fire wood.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2009 at 7:00PM
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charlieboring

I realize that this is an old thread, but I will try anyway. I have a FuYu persimmon and I would like to graft other varieties to create a multi-variety tree. Two questions, 1) What is the best grafting technique for this purpose and 2) Where can I get the scion wood?

    Bookmark   July 5, 2013 at 12:49PM
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brooklyner(5A)

Hey gardeners, looks like you are talking about some secret techiques to graft persimmon. I got my 6 y.o. American p. I've tried to graft to Hatchia and Fuya for 4 last years. I used to use different methods. Nothing has survived. I used to graft 1 y.o. tree cutting 1" up from the soil level - the same negative result. I tried to graft in April, May, June, July - no success. I used to graft 10-15 graftings the same time - no one survived. A couple days ago I read an article about persimmon MUST be grafted in winter time. There is no video, no specific instructions, no reference to youtube, etc. My American persimmon grow up to 16' and for 6 years no one fruit has survived after zillion flowers. I was angry and cut it down. It is vigorous and now I have 15 or 20 branches growing directly from roots. I beg you for the suggestion about WHEN and HOW to graft persimmon right.
I have no problem to graft apple, peach, plum , grape, but persimmon makes me angry.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 5:03PM
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charlieboring

Brooklyner - I have not tried it yet, but it is my understanding that persimmons need to be grafted before the buds beging to open. In VA that would be early March.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2013 at 7:43AM
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rburrel

I have had some success with persimmonâÂÂs. I cut dormant wood in February and place it in the fridge. I then wait until my 2 year old seedlings are leafing out, which is normally around the middle of april here.

At that time I have excellent results chip budding and t-budding the dormant buds onto the seedlings.

There was an exception 2 years ago where I only got about 20% take. I contributed that to 4 inches of rain we received just a few days after I budded the seedlings.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:37PM
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wildforager(5b-WI)

I've seen people successfully graft persimmon with the four flap banana graft method. Same method for grafting nuts.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 4:41PM
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