C.cashmeriana unbelievable growth

fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)July 16, 2014

This was just planted late fall and the growth is radical. A full 40in and doesn't seem like it's going to slow down. I don't consider it settled in until this fall, and I thought the C. lusitanica growing 36in in its first year was good. This is the "limpid" one as BBoy says from Speciality Ornamentals that came from JC Raulston. No problem with 16F even just planted. Bad pic, I'm trying to hold the tape measure. It grows like Green Giant with the leader first then branching but much longer and rope like, that's an 8ft stake, I don't know how much bigger stake I want to deal with, hopefully it will stand on its own soon.

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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Trees not adapted to cold climates aren't regulated by the same cycles as those that are. And don't need to produce the same firmness of growth as trees needing to endure regularly recurring snow and ice episodes.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 1:47AM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

bboy, I'm not exactly getting what you're saying, there is firm wood down low, it is just growing so fast. No fertilizer just water, I can't imagine what fertilizer would do to it.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 12:08PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Trees native to soft climates may grow for longer periods than those that are used to being shut down by drought or frost every year.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 5:48PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

Ok, although I don't consider here to be "soft", maybe in the winter not summer, I guess as long as it gets water it will continue to grow, heat and humidity surely does not seem to be a factor.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 7:53PM
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salicaceae(z8b FL)

They die fast easily too. I had one that grew unbelievably fast and was at its prime of beauty, then it died from Armillaria root rot!

    Bookmark   July 16, 2014 at 10:06PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

Hope there is no Armillaria here but there are two oaks 50ft away, I don't worry about pathogens much, it either lives or dies. It is planted in the spot where a M. grandiflora died, it was small and I think I got all the roots out, I see it is resistant anyway. I predict we will see more and more pathogens invading in the near future do to all the global trade, it is inevitable. We will have to adapt somehow.
I worry more about the fact that chicken will be processed in China now and sent back to us, we might die eating those yummy strips from KFC now! We're still here, after all, after chestnut blight, dutch elm, hemlock adelgid etc.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 1:52AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Just don't feed your tree those yummy KFC strips! You crack me up!

Dax

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 7:07AM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

OMG, I love chicken strips, that's why I have turned into such a porker.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 11:55AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Armillaria is characteristic of forested regions, no transport of infested nursery stock required.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 2:02PM
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texjagman(7A)

For me, this is the most beautiful conifer of them all. I knew my zone 7 was questionable but since you can only order these as pretty young grafts and it was fairly cheap I took a chance on one. I planted it in a very protected place where it got my hottest sun, but was also in a location where it would avoid the winter winds.

Mine made it two years and was growing 18"-24" a year. I had attached it to a 6' bamboo stake and had to retie it twice it was growing so fast. But this winter we went down to zero for a week and it finally killed it. Two years was long enough I had really begun to get my hopes up, so I hated it when it froze.

Good luck on yours.

Mark

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 2:41PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Yes, a convention is that it is a USDA 9 item. Maybe if it wasn't an apparent fixed juvenile it would be a little tougher.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 10:58PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

This is from JC Raulston but they are a solid z7 so I would not expect it to survive long term there, apparently this clone is good to 16F, even just planted, but how much and how long remains to be seen. It should be good as long as we don't get winters like the 1977 and 1983, 1989 which were devastating here, they would be toast. The new Satsumas burned back last winter but have come back vigorously and should do better this year, the C. cashmeriana seems to be hardier than they are. I would not have dared to plant it in full sun here. I will email Flo Chaffin and see how hers did.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2014 at 12:02PM
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davidrt28 (zone 7)

So...I'm trying to remember, didn't we deduce that this had infact died at NCSU, and the remaining one they are labeling as another Himalayan species is probably a European interloper? At any rate this looks similar to what I bought from Cistus years ago as having come from NCSU, indeed it died quite decisively at around 8-10F. Of course, high single digits around here in a normal to mild winter are much worse than 16F along the gulf coast, so I'm not surprised it was fine for you.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2014 at 4:33PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

Yes, you said it died I think. And if and when it gets to 8F here, god forbid, I won't be only worrying about my cypress for sure, much would be lost and I would be a nutcase. I really hate the cold more than the heat. Cistus only offers two cupressus now neither too interesting to me. FYI, Colvos Creek has shut down sadly, they always seemed to have a number of different things.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 1:26AM
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davidrt28 (zone 7)

That's a shame about Colvos although probably inevitable. I'll dispense w/my usual screed about this subject and just say this sums it up well:

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.valeaston.com/2014/06/sad-good-bye-to-colvos-creek-nursery-.html

    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 1:28PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

To a large extent the big draw at retail plant outlets these days is vegetable starts, particularly tomato plants - I repeatedly see people driving around with these latter visible in their cars at this time of the year. Even at the big, presumably enthusiast oriented multiple vendor plant sales like those Colvos had been more or a less a fixture at for decades the one table that people buzzed around like bees was the tomato plant specialist.

The other day I noticed the "tree line" at one of the multimillion dollar giant independent garden centers here was down to a fraction of its usual length, as though it was getting to the point where it was hardly worth stocking trees at all.

Colvos was mostly (although definitely not exclusively) about woody ornamentals that appealed to the founder or caught his interest.

Many of them trees.

On the other hand the family keeping another full sized, long established independent garden center going in this market seems to be doing quite well at turning over a pretty large line of woody plants every year.

Without clearance sales etc. being part of the strategy.

This post was edited by bboy on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 15:22

    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 3:20PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

I heard back from Flo Griffin at SO about the C. cashmeriana , she is just south of Athens GA, not too bad for this clone:

My biggest one still looks just fine. It is protected from the harsh west winds. the one in the field was mostly brown in spring, and now has new blue growth on the ends of just about every branch. OK- it doesn't look all that great in two toned colors. But I am hoping the brown will eventually drop off. then we'll see what happens next. But for sure it is NOT dead.

We had 6 degrees two nights in a row, and another day that was 8 degrees. That's pretty cold for this plant, so I am pleased with the outcome. Flo

    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 10:02PM
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davidrt28 (zone 7)

Thanks for the followup, Fairfield. Mine was very small...but I still don't think it would be hardy long term here even if established. A winter like this one is going to occur every 20 years or so...hopefully no more often than that. In Athens, GA one has a shorter duration of cold, stronger winter sun, etc. etc...but it's good to know it is hardier than zn 9.

"The other day I noticed the "tree line" at one of the multimillion dollar giant independent garden centers here was down to a fraction of its usual length, as though it was getting to the point where it was hardly worth stocking trees at all."
Yeah I'm reminded of calling around the Main Line nurseries for European beeches around the time of the Urban Outfitters buyout of Styers, so 2008-09 ish. When I first became aware of Styers in the late 1990s, their website listed quite a few cultivars of European Beech. By the time I was looking around none of the usual suspects (Waterloo was still in biz back then, with 2 locations) had anything other than a non-named, seedling possibly, "purple beech". The old days when typical people wanted to plant "legacy" trees are gone forever. Since then with Dilworth, John Shelley in York County, and various other such nurseries going out of business, it will become even harder to find such plants. Although I do think in a way it's a net positive that the remaining good mail order nurseries like Rarefind and Song Sparrow will consolidate their ability to market rarities. In the end its better for someone to buy them mail order than to not be produced at all because Joe Public no longer shops for high end plants at local retailers. Also a few hybrid wholesalers/retailers will persist here and there like the generally excellent (though I've had problems with a couple of their plants) Colesville Nursery in central VA. Last time I was there, an elderly couple had driven all the way from New Jersey to buy some Cephalotaxus!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 1:35PM
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fairfield8619(Zone 8 NW LA)

Be fortunate you at least HAD access to any "high end" plants! Here in Redneckland we have never had such luck. I think in the past there was better selections here when there were "better" nurseries, but they all folded even before the big box came around. I barely remember going to such places with my parents in the early 70's. There isn't anything like that here now, they are all re-sellers and everything seems to come from from TX and OK. I started going to the SFA plants sales and they have a lot of neat and new stuff at unbelievable prices, luckily it is only about two hours away. I will be looking for hydrangeas and native azaleas in particular for the fall sale.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 3:09PM
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