Pinue Flexilis "Extra Blue"

victor5(ME)September 5, 2012

Does anyone have any experience with this tree? How well does it handle cold and wind in zone 5.

Thanks

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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Victor, I see that you're not a new member of this forum (2003) so you could have seen several times here that the 'Extra Blue' isn't a cultivar of Pinus flexilis, but of Pinus reflexa.

Unfortunately I don't know nothing about the U.S. zone thing...

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 11:25AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

doesnt matter what you call it..

its bulletproof after established .... in my cold z5 .... mineral sand .. no water after the second year ... former horse pasture with no wind protection .... adrian MI

ken

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 1:01PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Some sources list it to zone 4.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 1:25PM
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victor5(ME)

Coniferjoy,
Perhaps you could share what knowledge you have, if any, about this tree, and also take an english grammar course!

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 1:55PM
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victor5(ME)

Coniferjoy,
Perhaps you could share what knowledge you have, if any, about this tree, and also take an english grammar course!

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 1:57PM
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victor5(ME)

Coniferjoy,
Perhaps you could share what knowledge you have, if any, about this tree, and also take an english grammar course!

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 1:59PM
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maple_grove_gw

I see why he calls himself "victor5"

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 3:04PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Ken, ofcoarse it matters what you call it, how could you say such a stupid thing!

Victor 5, this conifer is discussed here several times, you better try to find it back via Google.

Also my bad English is discussed here several times but I bet it's a miljon times better then you can write the Dutch language :0)

Please for next time, answer only once...

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 3:37PM
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victor5(ME)

This is from the Iseli site - Pinus flexilis 'Extra Blue' Upright Broad 4 Large Blue Aptly named, the standard size Limber Pine 'Extra Blue' boasts outstanding blue color on its clusters of five, long, slightly twisting or curving needles. The fast-growing tree, which prefers moist, well-drained soil, develops an attractive pyramidal habit and 3-6" long, light brown, resinous cones.

It is regularly referred to as Pinus flexilis "Extra Blue" all over Google, which I searched before posting here. I was asking about personal experience growing this tree & thank those that responded accordingly.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 5:13PM
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gardengal48

But DOES it really matter?? Only to taxonomists or those overly obssessed with botanical nomenclature. To Joe Blow Homegardener, it doesn't matter at all and these are the folks that are doing most of the buying :-)

Precision is fine in a perfect world but horticulture is far from perfect and with the frequency taxonomists rush to reclassify and rename plants, just having some understanding of how the plant one is wishing to discuss is typically referred to is usually sufficient, regardless of what today's current "correct" botanical name is.

Since taxonomists may disagree as to the circumscription, position or rank of a taxon, there can be more than one correct name for a particular plant. These may also be called synonyms.

Current synonyms:

Pinus flexilis 'Extra Blue'
Pinus flexilis var. reflexa 'Extra Blue'
Pinus reflexa 'Extra Blue'

Pinus reflexa is also synonymous with Pinus strobiformis and Pinus ayacahuite.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 6:06PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

All, thanks for the laugh on this post!

GG, are they really synonyms in this case? I thought they where distinct differences between them to aptly call them different species. For example the cones.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 7:58PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i cant even remember the question.. lol ..

ME.. maine right..

isnt that state covered with pines..

this is a pine.. AND IN MY EXPERIENCE.. in my z5.. bulletproof ...

ken

BTW.. there is a look alike ... but i wont tell you what name i have it under.. for obvious reasons .... lets just refer to it here as 'Cesarini Blue' ... lol ..

ps: it will never be a xmas tree shape.. it ends up really cool .. gangly ... sorta like the one at the link .. unless you buy a very expensive one that has been repeatedly sheared.. or you learn how to do it yourself ...

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 7:58PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

GG, since you're not a taxonomist or species specialist it's not wise to say here such a nonsense.

Resin and Clement are our species specialists and they mentioned a while ago that this cultivar belongs to Pinus reflexa, and let me tell you that they know what they're talking about!

Also most of the U.S. nurserymen think in the way you do "To Joe Blow Homegardener, it doesn't matter at all and these are the folks that are doing most of the buying :-)"
This is why conifer naming is such a very big mess in the U.S. and you're taking part of it!

Paying a bit more attention to the needles and colour of 'Extra Blue', we can see that the length and colour never fits for Pinus flexilis.

This is serious stuff and names must be set straight, but I'm glad that Will can laugh about it...

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 2:58AM
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baxswoh

Having been corrected in the past about being able to tie an Extra Blue leader into a pretzel configuration and not being able to do the same with a Vanderwolf I am a bit gun shy to jump into this quagmire. However, is there any Flexilis cultivar that all can agree on as not being a Reflexa or some mixture thereof?

Gardengals point is well put and should not be so easily dismissed.

Ken: You should post a picture of your Extra Blue. That was one of the memorable trees in your display garden this summer.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 6:46AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

GG,what a f*cking bullsh*t are you telling here that Pinus strobiformis and Pinus ayacahuite are synomyms for Pinus reflexa!!!
YOU REALY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I'm getting sick of your CRAP!

Several members here are trying to set everything straight and you're starting a big mess again becaue of careless behaviour!

The very bad thing is that this info will be showed when people start to find info about Pinus reflexa via Google!

There are plenty of cultivars of the real Pinus flexilis, most of them are witches' brooms found by Jerry Morris in the Rocky Mountains.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 8:45AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Sir Edwin surely not laughing about the name/species confusion going on here! I changed my tone when referecning the naming concern and asked/made ligitimate points. Just wanted to clarify for you.

Ken, of coarse it matters what you call it, how could you say such a stupid thing!
= Funny

Perhaps you could share what knowledge you have, if any, about this tree, and also take an english grammar course!
= Funny

I see why he calls himself "victor5"
= The Funniest of them all

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 12:43PM
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI

Edwin, although I agree with your desire for proper nomenclature, your last comment I cannot agree with. It was out of line.

tj

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 4:39PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Yeah, I know that I was going out of line, I'm sorry for that.

It's just like educating little kids, somethimes you've to be hard otherwise they don't or won't listen.

With that comment I want to make clear that you can't just write things down that aren't right, that'why I changed my tone for a change.
With doing this I think it will be never done again, otherwise I'll do it again, remember it's only friendly fire.

The "To Joe Blow Homegardener, it doesn't matter at all and these are the folks that are doing most of the buying :-)" is why the conifer naming is such a very big mess in the U.S.
Also most of the U.S. nurserymen are thinking in this way.
I explainted this several times here before and it seems that it will help bit by bit.

It's a "Monkey say, monkey do" thing with the conifer names, people mention or writing down a name and other will take over without checking.

Honestly I was expecting much more bad comments to my "friendly fire comment" but this didn't happen.
I know that most of the forum members here appreciate all the time,effort and input I'm doing for the conifer world and I want to thank them all for their understanding.

Comming Sunday 35 ACS members will visit my nursery and Pinetum, I'm looking forward to educate them as well and for sure they still will remember me in a poitive way when they're home again :0)

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 2:39AM
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pineresin

"Some sources list it to zone 4"

This is actually a good example of why accurate naming does matter: Pinus flexilis is hardy to zone 2 or 3, whereas Pinus reflexa is only hardy to zone 5 or 6. So a cultivar of P. reflexa, mislabelled as being of P. flexilis, will not perform in some areas to the expectation that its name suggests. It'll also perform differently in other aspects; P. reflexa is much faster-growing than P. flexilis, and reaches larger sizes.

"Pinus reflexa is also synonymous with Pinus strobiformis and Pinus ayacahuite"

Not true, of course. Briefly, P. flexilis is from the Rockies from roughly the New Mexico / Colorado boundary northwards (west through Nevada to SE California), P. reflexa south of that line down to northernmost Mexico, P. strobiformis in northwest Mexico, P. stylesii in northeast Mexico, and P. ayacahuite in southern Mexico and Guatemala. There are substantial differences in both morphology and climatic adaptation between them. Paper on these species here (pdf).

Resin

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 4:07PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

'Vanderwolf's Pyramid', apparently a Pinus reflexa cultivar, is hardy to zone 4. I'd "assume" this cultivar would have similar hardiness to 'Extra Blue'

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 6:45PM
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