Picea pungens 'R.H. Montgomery'???

monkeytreeboy15(Zone 7b/8a)September 10, 2012

Do you think it could be 'R.H. Montgomery'?

Thanks!

-Sam

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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Yes.

It becomes a conical grower after some age as this one has done. I have one I cut the leader out causing it to grow wider. It has never tried to put up a new leader.

In my opinion 'Glauca Globosa' and 'R.H. Montogemry' are not the same cultivar. I grow both of them.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 9:26PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

According to Fincham (Dwarf Colorado Spruce web page) habit varies with propagation method (as is frequent with cloning of conifers). Supposedly "they" are told apart by the bud scales - there not being anything consistent enough about the habits produced to be used to separate out two distinctly different types.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 12:33AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

The only way to find out if they're differedn is to take an DNA test...

Differend growing habbits will form if these are propagated by cutting or by grafting.
Plants propagated by grafting will form a leader because of the strong understock pusch.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 1:24AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

just adding to the puzzle .. i have no real info.. but you might want to throw Egyptian Pyramid into the equation ...

ken

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 7:18AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Sorry guys. I am not pulling anything out of a book or passing on anything that is here say to make my determination.

The form is different, color different and the 'Glauca Globosa' is the inferior of the two. R. H. Montgomery' is always true to exactness in color. 'Glauca Globosa' color varies from blue tips green inner foliage to all blue. I see many bad color variances of this cultivar. I happen to have one of the better ones which is blue to the core.

I see these two forms growing all over the Midwest. I never have to blink twice as to know what I am looking at.

Picea pungens 'Glauca Globosa'

Picea pungens "R. H. Montgomery'

Dave

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 8:45AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Mine also have two different shades of blue. Also my 'Glauca Globosa' is blue to the core like Dave's plant.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 11:17AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Dave, were your pictures taken at the ame day?

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 11:47AM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

Yes.

Late Spring 2012. Cloudy day. We still had nice green grass as seen in both photos.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 12:16PM
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ireena_7

My 'Glauca globosa' looks very different - not as dense and low. It is photographed in August, when the new growth is already long, but the shape is completely different. Maybe I need to take out a leader? Maybe I need to cut branches to make it more compact? And I also have not noticed 2 different colors - even in the spring. This picea is not ever cut, since it was purchased. And yes - this plant was grafted...

Ireena

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 2:12PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

If you want it lower and flatter, you will have to start cutting it back.

Soon.

But wait until the new growth is out early next summer, shorten that, unless you aren't worried about the possible lingering visual result of pruning it back now, or farther back than just part of the new growth.

Another thing you can try instead is slicing through all or part of the roots. This will reduce the rate of top growth without cutting away part of the top being involved. It will still have the same overall shape, just grow more slowly.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 3:25PM
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ireena_7

Thanks for the advice, bboy! However, I will wait next July (in our zone it is early summer!) And then cut new shoots. Because at the moment it looks like a Christmas tree :)) I expected more lower shape. And about roots slicing - I am already thinking about it. I do not have such a big garden, but this picea is growing like crazy :)

Ireena

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 4:52PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

I would leave it to free range.

A beautiful specimen. Candling or cutting on it now...well in my opinion to late to change direction in its look or growing habit.

It look like growth is 8-12 inches a year. 20.32/30.48 cm. Seems a little strong and robust to me for this cultivar.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 5:37PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Ireena, please don't cut the leader out of your 'Glauca Globosa', this will destroy your specimen and you'll regret this for ever.
If you cut it's leader out it will make several new one's so it's true shape will be gone and it will look as ugly as can be.
Plants of this cultivar which are propagated by grafting will always show a growing habit like yours.
If you want one which is low and dense like Dave's specimen, you've to purchase one which is propagated as a cutting...
Your's will grow out as a nice blue pyramid, very good useable as a background specimen.

Dave, thanks for your pics and answer.
By taken a closer look I see clearly visuable differences between both cultivars in colour and needle setting.
From now on I can also see from a mile away which one is which one :0)

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 5:38PM
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ricksample(6)

Dave - What's the growth rate of these two conifers? Just wondering if they are around the same for future reference.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 9:19PM
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dcsteg(5 Shawnee, KS.)

rick,

The 'R.H. Montgomery' and the 'Glauca Globosa' 3-4 inches a year. Both were planted in 1998.

Edwin,

I thought I was one up on you to be able to tell the difference in a blink of the eye.

Well...to be able to tell the difference from a mile away. I concede again.

Dave

    Bookmark   September 11, 2012 at 10:27PM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Dave, the thing is that the 'R.H. Montgomery' isn't availlable in Europe yet, I do have a specimen in my Pinetum but it's to small yet to compare it with the 'Glauca Globosa'.
I'm very glad that you posted your pics of your specimens which were planted at the same year and I also think they do have the same age and are propageted by cuttings.
I see that the 'R.H. Montgomery' has a flat needle setting while the needles of the 'Glauca Globosa' are surounding the twigs.
Thanks again, I'm also still learning about conifers every day, and yes, a mile is a bit to far, but it was so to say... :0)

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 2:46AM
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ireena_7

OK, Edwin!
Listen to your advice. Always it is easier not to cut :)
And form a really beautiful. I like it. I hope that it slows down the growth rate.

Ireena

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 2:47AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

ireena...

a 'globosa' .. should be basically globe shaped.. with NO pruning by you ... perhaps INFREQUENTLY putting up a leader ...

yours is straight up .. i question whether it is a globe ... or a globosa ... though surely i dont have the ability to name plants on sight, like some here ...

the whole point of naming a plant globosa ... is that it has an inherent genetic predisposition to a globe shape ... NOT THAT YOU HAVE TO PRUNE IT INTO THAT SHAPE ...

ken

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 6:59AM
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coniferjoy(z7 The Netherlands)

Ken, probably the original seedling of the 'Glauca Globosa' had a globose form, that's why they named it 'Glauca Globosa'.
Dave's specimen is propagated as a cuttings and it's shape is the same as the original one.
Ireena's specimen is grafted and because of this it made a leader because of the pushing of the powerful understock.

The same situation is with the Sciadopitys verticillata 'Gruene Kugel' (translated from German to English it means 'Green Globe'.
The original seedling was a nice globose form, but all propagated one's by grafting started to develop a leader after a while...

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 7:23AM
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texjagman(7A)

The same happened with my Picea pungens 'Waldbrunns'. It pushed almost from the start and has turned into a beautiful little christmas tree shape rather than a globe.....and I like it better.

mark

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 9:05AM
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maple_grove_gw

Tex,

I believe that in the case of 'Waldbrunn' it's well known that grafted plants will develop a leader and more of an upright shape. For the bun shape you would need a plant grown from a cutting, which is not so easy to find at least in this country.

Alex

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 9:25AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Most of this is liable to be the invigorating influence of seedling rootstocks. Grafted dwarf conifer stock that grows faster and taller than it is supposed to is pretty common.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 5:22PM
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