Clematis for zone 3

don555(3a)May 3, 2013

I know there are previous posts on this, but I've spent the past half hour or so searching and just can't find the threads I'm looking for...

I cut down a pine in the front yard this spring, opening up a trellis to sunshine for the first time in 10 years or so. I want to plant a clematis or two along it, and am thinking of Ville de Lyon and/or Nelly Moser. Are these hardy enough for Edmonton suburbs? (I have a two jackmanii clematis that I planted along two nearby tellises a few years ago, and they kill down pretty much to ground level each winter but recover quickly in spring.)

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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Both of these bloom on new growth, so they should work for you. They come up fairly reliably here for me. Nelly is going to get moved again this spring. The first area she was in got overshadowed with huge hollyhocks, so i put her and one called Durandi under a lilac to see if they would twine through it. They didn't, so now i'll move them to another spot with a couple of trellises. Villes de Lyons has been in the same spot - eastern exposure - for quite a few years. It disappeared for a year but came back the next. Not sure why...

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 8:49AM
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catt_2006(3a)

You should be fine with nelly moser. I have her in central manitoba facing west and she has come back each year for the past 4 years. I have not grown ville de Lyon.

This post was edited by catt_2006 on Sat, May 4, 13 at 19:26

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 1:22PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

My mom loves clematis and always has 4-5 of them all around her deck. It's a south exposure but sort of rural so not really a microclimate. She has had many over the years and the only one that's really a permanent fixture is C. alpina. The rest (Nelly Moser was one, as well as The President and Pope John Paul off the top of my head) are good for a few years but eventually don't show up again.

I also have an alpina which is getting on for 10 years, and integrifolia Durandii (same as Marcia) which I only planted last year and it bloomed like crazy for 6 months straight. Never seen anything like it. I'll have to see if it's alive this year.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 6:55PM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

I love Ville de Lyon, the flowers are so beautiful and huge, and it blooms off and on throughout the summer. I'm zone 2b, plus I live on a farm, so it should do fine in the suburbs. I've had the same situation happen as Marcia with it - disappears for a year and then comes back just fine. That has only happened once, though. Would probably be a good idea to plant it with another variety, that way if it doesn't come up you still have the other one.

In my opinion, it is totally worth the random disappearing year.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 7:16PM
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north53 Z1b MB(zone 1b Canada)

I was hesitant to say Ville de Lyon has been hardy for me, because mine is in such a good spot it might have an unfair advantage. It is located at the end of the deck so gets all the snow shoveled off the deck on to it. Even in a poor snow year, there will be lots piled there. I think that gives it extra protection.

Anyway, I'm very happy with it. I have a Therese Bugnet rose growing in that area that is too large for the space and am considering ripping it out and planted another clematis to keep VdeL company. Not sure what I'd choose.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 10:19PM
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weeper_11(2b SK)

Yeah, I would add that I always cover VDL with straw, plus it gets lots of snow. It is definitely borderline hardy, but with a little TLC it is just fine.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 10:51PM
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don555(3a)

Okay, thanks everyone, sound like with a little TLC I could go with either. Decisions, decisions...

    Bookmark   May 5, 2013 at 3:10AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

My VdL also gets pretty good snow cover, and i also heap leaves on the base of the plant.

Don, there's a display of clematis in our Canadian Tire ("in" because it's still too darn cold "out"). Only $7!

    Bookmark   May 5, 2013 at 8:46AM
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nutsaboutflowers(2b/3a)

Don, if you haven't made a decision yet, there's a post on the clematis forum where Terry (twrosz) lists some of the clematis he's combined. Isn't he living somewhere in your general area??

The post is titled - Ideas for Fantastic Clematis combos wanted.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2013 at 1:55PM
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don555(3a)

Just an update -- went for two Ville de Lyons.

I have 2 jackmanii already, the one by the house is thriving this spring, with at least 2 feet of new growth already. The other is planted in a spot with better sun, but beside a sidewalk that gets shovelled in the winter... it is coming back but much more slowly, with only one strong shoot and a bunch of much slower shoots that are only a couple inches long.

The new clematis' will be away from the sidewalk in the open yard, but when I read that Nelly Moser is zone 4a and Ville de Lyon is zone 2b, that clinched it for me. Have the plants in 1 gallon pots, young but healthy, hope to plant them tomorrow. The goal for this year is only to get them well established, then hopefully they will bloom a bit next year, and more each year after. Guess we'll see!

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 1:45AM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

My integrifolia Durandii is alive and well this spring! It's already got a foot of new growth.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 5:59AM
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Tessagirl

Last year I planted a Henryi and the President. The Henryi has over a dozen shoots coming with nothing from old wood since it died back to the ground. The President isn't looking so well,it emerged sooner but of the 4 shoots only 1 is still healthy. I didn't do anything special to overwinter- just the now dead verbena planted at the base to keep the "feet" shaded from the hot sun.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 7:20PM
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jetred(3 Mb)

I have had luck with Jackmanii, Ville de Lyon and Ruutel (from Estonia) Considering that we had a very harsh winter, all my clematis made it through especially Ruutel! Its halfway up the side of the house by now. I would love to try another Estonian clematis but haven't seen them recently at any of the local nurseries.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 11:35PM
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CLBlakey

Do all the clematis listed above die back to the ground each year or do they rebloom on previous wood.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 8:47AM
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luckygal(3b)

So glad I read this thread as my Ville de Lyon clematis disappeared last year and I thought it was gone for good. It has come back up this year tho which was a pleasant surprise.

I did some research on this and apparently it does occasionally happen with clematis. I expect they require a certain level of root development before returning. I must feed mine more alfalfa tea and compost this year.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 3:20PM
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northspruce(z3a MB CDA)

My alpina doesn't die back and is very hardy. It had a bit of dead ends this spring after that very cold winter, but it's still huge and the flower buds are on it now.

The integrifolia grows new stems each year.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 7:30PM
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CLBlakey

Alpina is very pretty. I would have never guessed that Intergrifolia was a clematis if I saw it without knowing. Nice.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 8:19PM
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cmmwiebe

I have grown over the years Pink Flamingo, Joe Zary, Dr. Fl Skinner, White Swan, and many seedlings of koreana crosses. Anything with these as parents or blood lines will be hardy. Pink Flamingo will produce all spring and sometimes into mid summer.
I really like the sprawlers like C. integrifolia Alionushka.
I have added a link to my Picasa Web Album from 2010 to show the variety you can grow especially from seed!
The attached picture is C. fremontii which is a little bushy guy that does not vine.

Here is a link that might be useful: My 2010 late season Clematis

    Bookmark   June 6, 2013 at 10:58PM
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donna_in_sask

I never could get Nelly Moser to grow here. In my Saskatoon garden, I have Polish Spirit, Etoile Violette, Madam Julia Correvon, Rhapsody, and Jackman.

One comment about buying clems...I bought a bunch of them in small liners and not one of them survived. I think when buying, you need to get one with enough of a root system that allows it to overcome our harsh winters.

I can't believe how many big box stores sell clematises that aren't even rated for our zone. A lot of people wouldn't check for pruning groups, they just look at the flower on the tag.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2013 at 10:58AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

The box stores get what's sent to them and most of them don't know and don't care about zone ratings. I was once told by a manager at Canadian Tire that we were "a mix of zone 3 and zone 5". LOL

    Bookmark   June 8, 2013 at 11:24AM
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don555(3a)

First bloom of the seaon!!!

...Not on my new Ville de Lyon clematis, but on a Jackmanii superba I planted a couple years ago. The VDL seems likely to bloom in a week or so too though...

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 3:43AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

So far Nelly Moser is the only one blooming for me. Ville de Lyons shot up its trellis but isn't blooming yet. Durandi tends to want to crawl and i just wrapped it around its trellis yesterday hoping it would get the picture - UP not OUT! General Sikorsky is barely out of the ground, and Anne Jackman is up and taller than it has been in years, but only about a foot high. I don't know what's with that one...

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 8:59AM
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nutsaboutflowers(2b/3a)

Don, how tall has your Jackmani superba grown so far?

I also planted mine a few years ago. It's over 6 feet and has about 40 blooms on it right now. I just can't believe that mine is so far ahead of yours at the moment. It must really like it's spot.

The Ville de Lyon I bought last year and just plopped into a hole in it's pot has no sign of life at all :( I wonder if I should just throw it out and try to find a new one.....

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 11:03AM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

Don I Love the pic. All my Clems are brand new this year so I am not expecting much. My jackmanii superba has grown about a foot a week (one vine particularly) but no buds. As I was typing this I looked out to see some color on the Vancouver Sea Breeze. Looks like I will have my first clem bloom! She also has several buds and is paired with a Hania on a fence. I am not expecting nothing till sept. as it is supposed to be a may/june and sept bloomer.

Regarding Nelly Moser - I was going to get one but had heard that it fades very fast. Anybody else experience this?

TIA

SCG

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 11:40AM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Mine has had four blooms this summer and they've lasted over a week now. Only one has faded.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 3:12PM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

Thanks marcia..... have you had any hot heat? I am just scared in our heat will fade it fast...was 38.6 a few days ago. First day today under 34C...uggg

SCG

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 3:46PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Well, not as hot as there, but high 20s and low 30s for the last week or so. Today we have rain and only 21 - everything is loving it, especially the mosquitoes!

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 4:04PM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

Don make sure you share a pic of the VDL bloom. I went to get a photo of Vancouver Sea Breeze for you earlier but the sun was too harsh. I will try to remember to try again later.

Marcia, the mosquitos are bad this year here as well. I get bit at least once a night in the garden and some nights several times.

SCG

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 5:03PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

ONCE a night??? I need a suit of armour out there! And that's all day! LOL

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 5:22PM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

LOL, yeah. Most years I will only get bit a handful of times a year. This is horrible! I would use repellant but I can't remember where I put it.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 6:05PM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

This is for you Don. Although only hardy to 4 (I was told they are testing for 3).

Vancouver Sea Breeze.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 6:21PM
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don555(3a)

NAF, you are setting the pace this year! My plant is actually quite tall, about 9' right now, but it is fairly thin on vines and has just 3 blooms (but lots of buds). It is in a sheltered spot right up against the house so is the furthest along of my 4 clematis. None of the others have bloomed, but I do have another jackmanii that has fuller growth and is pretty close to its first bloom.

SCG, that bloom is a real stunner. Hopefully my Ville de Lyon will be able to match that in colour, though not likely in overall showiness. Will post a photo when it blooms.

Oh, and one mosquito bite per night and you are thinking of repellant? My criteria would be more like one bite per minute...

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 1:13AM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

Lol Don. We are so hot and dry with no standing water that there are not many. I look forward to your pictures and thanks VSE is quite a pretty specimen.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 2:24PM
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don555(3a)

Turns out that Ville de Lyon is remarkably similar to the VSE. This is the first bloom, just opening today.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 11:49PM
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marciaz3 Tropical 3 Northwestern Ontario

Way ahead of me, Don. My Ville de Lyons doesn't even have a bud on it! Nelly Moser is the only one that has bloomed for me so far this summer.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 8:32AM
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shazam_z3

Turns out I planted a VDL last year :P I forgot what I put in that particular spot. Luckily I save the tags. It's very tall already and has a ton of buds.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 1:05PM
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SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC(Zone 4b-5 SE BC Canada)

Very nice Don. Next year I must get one!!

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 5:29PM
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